JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

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JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:04 pm

Break Emerging in JonBenet Ramsey Case?
Expert: Boulder, Colo. Police Want to Talk to Her Brother, Now 23, Who Was Nine When She Was Killed, as Possible Witness

Sept. 28, 2010


JonBenet Ramsey (AP)

(CBS) An expert on the JonBenet murder case says his sources confirm reports that investigators in Boulder, Colo. would like to speak again to her older brother, Burke Ramsey, in case he saw something at the time that could help them connect some newly-surfaced dots now.

Burke was nine when his little sister, a 6-year-old beauty pageant contestant, was slain in December 1996, in what went on to become one of the most famous unsolved killings in recent times.

He's now 23.

Lawrence Skiller, a contributor to The Daily Beast, founder of the Norman Mailer Writers Colony and author of one of the definitive books on the Ramsey case, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town," told "Early Show" co-anchor Maggie Rodriguez Tuesday he called some sources in Boulder on Monday.

Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/28/earlyshow/main6907384.shtml
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:52 pm

Jonbenet Ramsey: Police to Interview Burke?

Tuesday, September 28, 2010
Posted by Seamus O Riley at 11:03 AM

HLN is reporting that Boulder police may want to interview Burke Ramsey, the older brother of slain JonBenet Ramsey.

We will be looking for any statements associated with the case. Police have just issued a statement stating that they won't be issuing statements.

Recently, we have begun to apply the principles of Statement Analysis in looking back at the Ramseys, including analysis done by Mark McClish on the ransom note, (www.statementanalysis.com) and linguistic indicators of possible sexual abuse done by Avinoam Sapir (www.lsiscan.com ) Note that although Mr. Sapir's work was intended for his students (the SCAN technique), it is a benefit to all.

This week, I plan to begin Statement Analysis of John and Patsy Ramsey's entire book about the case and will update interested readers.
updating...


http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/09/jonbenet-ramsey-police-to-interview.html

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:55 pm

This case has always bothered me. kh
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:58 pm

Me as well, kh......

It's way past time for this little girl to be able to rest in peace. afro

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Ann - Tx on Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:08 am

Thanks for the article, Snaz! I followed this case! A resolution would be nice!
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:47 am

Yep, I followed it too! What a sad story .. a beautiful child gone on Christmas..

I was doing a little research on the Statement Analysis..

Here is the website...of Mark McClish.

http://www.statementanalysis.com/

Basically it says that he researced ppl talking in the last 26 yrs and can tell if you are lying or being honest by the words you use...

I always like to see relentless effort on any case, and also believe that technology is essential in everything we do...

But as far as solving crimes.. Please... is this going to be the latest thing to nail ppl????

To hear how John Ramseys book will now be analysed is getting old...

He was exonerated as well as Patsy and Burke....

They have DNA and have had it for a couple of years.. they need to focus on that and stop distracting themselves..

What next, what color of socks you prefer will determine guilt or innocence.. I tihnk we need to stop playing God with circumstance and predictions.. we need to get back to good old fashioned hard worked investigations..

Computers really cant do everything...

Here is the exoneration letter to the Ramseys.

"On July 9, 2008, Boulder County District Attorney Mary Lacy stated that DNA tests conducted by Bode Technology Group revealed that skin cells left behind on JonBenet Ramsey's long underwear point to a killer other than the girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, or her brother, Burke. Mrs. Ramsey died of ovarian cancer in 2006 at age 49.

"To the extent that we may have contributed in any way to the public perception that you might have been involved in this crime, I am deeply sorry," Lacy wrote in an exoneration letter to John Ramsey, who now has remarried and lives in Michigan. "No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion."

Early in the investigation into the 6-year-old pageant star's brutal murder on Christmas night in 1996, Lacy said that Boulder police discovered male DNA in a drop of blood on JonBenet's underwear that did not match any members of JonBenet's immediate family. The tests conducted by Bode Technology Group, Lacy said, revealed the same DNA that was found previously in the drop of blood was present in three places on JonBenet's long underwear.

Lacy stated that Boulder investigators now hope they'll eventually find a DNA match in the ever-expanding national DNA databank, a sentiment echoed by John Ramsey. "I think the people that are in charge of the investigation are focused on that, and that gives me a lot of comfort," Mr. Ramsey said in an interview with a Denver TV station. "Certainly we are grateful that they acknowledged that we, based on that, certainly could not have been involved."

Even if a DNA match is eventually made, it does not mean that the DNA from this contaminated crime scene will reveal it to be that of JonBenet's killer, although it possibly could. For now, all that is known, is that it is not the DNA of John, Burke, or the late Patsy Ramsey. In the meantime, the JonBenet case will continue unsolved and will remain one of the most botched crime investigations in the annals of U.S. law enforcement."

www.bouldercounty.org/newsroom/templates/%3Fa%3D1256%26z%3D0+mary+lacy+jonbonet&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:C9UR_xZTtzYJ:www.bouldercounty.org/newsroom/templates/%3Fa%3D1256%26z%3D0+mary+lacy+jonbonet&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Piper on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:06 am

This case has always bothered me. I hated what was done to the Ramsey's. I remember seeing a program years back about a guy that was a possible suspect, something about his boots matching a footprint, but they didn't do anything with him. I wish I could remember what program it was so I could find it. It was interesting.
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:24 am

Yes. Piper I remember that..... But why look for anyone outside when you can go after the parents?????????????

We are hearing talk now from another case about the Vidocq Society....

We know the society is comprised of a lie detector (expert???) as well as a hand writing analyst and a profiler.....

I recall how it was all over the news that the note was matched Pattys handwriting and we know how they were both told they failed their polys ...........

Another witchunt where a victim still has no one brought to justice.. just their family that seems to be still badgered....

What is wrong with our legal system???????????

They have the best evidence in the world... DNA (that we already know does not match Burke, John or Patty)...

Is there nothing more that can be done with the DNA..

Surely they cud do more investigating with that boot...

Im not suggesting they have an easy job, but I am just so sick of ppl fitting so called descriptions and being used so to match circumstantial evidence agaisn and smeering the creditbility of these crime victims...


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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:56 am

AJ, I think this article is related to the tv show I saw RE: the DNA.

SMIT PUSHES TOUTS INTRUDER THEORY EX-JONBENET RAMSEY HOMICIDE DETECTIVE TAKES HIS CASE TO A NATIONAL TV AUDIENCE.(Local)

Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO)
May 1, 2001
Ryckman, Lisa Levitt


Former JonBenet Ramsey murder detective Lou Smit has taken his intruder theory to national television in an effort to jump-start the investigation.

On Monday's Today show, the retired El Paso County homicide cop released graphic crime scene photos and even climbed through the basement window he believed the killer used.

Boulder police have focused on the 6-year-old's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, who are still considered suspects. The Ramseys have denied killing their daughter.

``They have just stopped at the Ramseys, plain and simple,'' Smit …

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-73936603.html


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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:58 am

I haven't found the DNA part yet, but these are interesting anyway...











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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:08 am

(This looks interesting)

WARNING: There may be very graphic images in these videos.....

The JonBenet Ramsey Story











At the end of Part 5, it says continued on Part 6, but I can't find it.



Last edited by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:10 am

AJ......

snipped:

On November 19, 2002, The Rocky Mountain News reported the unknown male DNA recovered from JonBenet's panties could have been left on the garment at the time the clothing was manufactured. "In exploring that theory, investigators obtained unopened 'control' samples of identical underwear manufactured in the plant in Southeast Asia, tested them and found human DNA in some of those new, unused panties."

Read more:http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/feb_13.html


Also:

Male DNA in Underwear
Findings
Male DNA Found. "In addition, male DNA was found in JonBenet's underwear that does not match that of any Ramsey and has not yet been sourced. (SMF PP 175, 178; PSMF PP 175, 178.)" (Carnes 2003:22).
No Match Found to Date. "The Boulder Police Department has yet to identify the male whose DNA was found at the crime scene. (SMF P 177; PSMF P 177.)" (Carnes 2003:22).
Saliva? According to Internet poster Margoo, Lin Wood reported in a chat session that the DNA in the underwear "probably" was saliva. Several news sources also have suggested the male DNA was from saliva, including Denver Post, People's Daily Online and Taipei Times


Potential Source of DNA in Underwear
Factory Worker DNA
Evidence in Favor of Asian Factory Worker Source
Unnamed Investigators' View. However, "Investigators in the JonBenet Ramsey case believe that male DNA recovered from the slain child's underwear may not be critical evidence at all, and instead could have been left at the time of the clothing's manufacture. In exploring that theory, investigators obtained unopened "control" samples of identical underwear manufactured at the same plant in Southeast Asia, tested them - and found human DNA in some of those new, unused panties."


Read more:
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/DNA-Evidence#MaleDNAinUnderwear



Last edited by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:19 am


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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:28 am

Julie wrote:(This looks interesting)
The JonBenet Ramsey Story

There are extremely graphic and upsetting images on video (#3). I wish I had not watched it. kh
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:33 am

Sorry, I haven't watched them yet, but I will put your warning in my post.

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:44 am

Here's info on the touch DNA in this case. BBM

Family cleared in JonBenet Ramsey’s death
New DNA test finds no link, DA says in letter to Colorado girl’s father

msnbc.com and NBC News msnbc.com and NBC News
updated 7/9/2008 5:19:36 PM ET

Lacy based her decision, according to the letter, on the results of new DNA samples secured and tested at Bode Technology Group in Lorton, Va. The DNA technology, called “touch” analysis, was not available in 1996.

The recent testing was conducted on a different area of the girl's clothing, and it matches previous DNA tested from the child’s panties in 1997.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25608543/

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Piper on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:17 am

Julie, thank you for taking the time to search for these and post them. The graphic images are extremely disturbing. Who got away with murdering this child in such a vicious manner? Where are they now?
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:25 am

Great information being posted..on such a sad story for everyone who was involved along with the world who still mourns JonBonets death and prays for the killer to be caught and brought to justice...

Here are my specific questions based on the articles posted here..

I am of the understanding that the dna that was found on JonBonets underwear matched the same DNA that was found on JonBonets clothing.

If this is true, then finding DNA on brand new unopened factory made underwear is a moot point...

Is this correct? Is the exoneration letter still warranted?

If not, I dont understand why it wud not have been retracted.....Can someone shed some light...?

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Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:32 am

Thanks Julie...

About the underwear..

It is my understanding that this detectives theory (one who clearly has not quit his witchunt agaisnt this family) has been discredited.

My understanding is that even though a test in the factory proved DNA was found on unopened packages of the same brand of underwear, (which wud imply that this "touch" dna was there from a factory worker and not the perp...was eliminated on account that the match of DNA was also found on diff articles of JB's clothing that was never in the factory...If this is true then it wud blow out this detectives theory..and still leave the Ramseys exonerated...

I have asked this same ? on the other thread, but asked it here as well for readers who may not be viewing the other thread...

Thnx

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:55 am

Piper, no problem.

AJ, I'll check around more later.

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:48 pm

SNIPPED....
(article written 7/9/08

" Boulder DA investigators and Lacy made the decision late last year to have the leggings of JonBenet’s panties tested at the Bode Lab. It is not clear if the leggings had been previously tested for DNA.
The investigators considered the possibility that since JonBenet was sexually assaulted and undressed and redressed, it was possible that the perpetrator left skin cell samples on the waistband of the leggings.
The Bode Lab recovered DNA from the top part of the leggings, on both the right and left legs, where the perpetrator would have put his hands to move them. Those new “touch” samples from the leggings match the DNA that was found in 1997 on the panties.

At the time of JonBenet’s death, technology for DNA testing on the child’s panties used swabs from fluid obtained from skin and clothing to establish DNA identity."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25608543/

---------------------

Julie if the above snip is true...

the way I read it is that the DNA on the underwear, was later confirmed to match the DNA on the leggings...

If this is true ..then it wud explain the exoneration being valid to this day...explaining why it has never been retracted..

I dont dispute that there are many in LE who continue to elude to Ramsey involvement despite the information the letter from the State to this familoy ased on their findings which have been made public.

Now hearing that LE want to revisit with Burke, only brings ppl (who may not have known about the exoneration and elimination that has been scientifically ...

I even hear NG (still) go on and on about the Ramseys being involved which of course imo is so influential and iresponsible...

(It will be interesting to see her take on the lastest news of Burke being reinterviewed (where we know his DNA was also excluded)..and he was 9 at the time of the tragedy..)
We alsways hear her talk about " stacks of evidence " which imo is usually only circumstantial ..which she always thinks is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but she shows her double standards in this case, where despite the physical/forensic/scientific evidence. she has chosen to ignore that.... hmmmm

Anyway, it seems plausible to think that LE are still going after this family, and have the same tunnel vision issues they had from the start...

Hopefully the jury of public opinion will be vocal for LE to move on from the family and get the case solved...






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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:53 pm

I think the whole stumbling point in the last FEW YEARS has been that they do indeed have DNA now but have been unable to match it to anyone in their database, which also means it must not belong to a family member? I think the Ramsay's all gave DNA samples but can't remember for sure. kh
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:10 pm

AJ, I get the impression you feel that by us posting the articles regarding the touch DNA, it is indicative that one (or more) of us believes this testing does not exonerate the Ramsays.

Of course, I can't speak for anyone else, but I agree with you completely that it absolutely does exonerate JonBenet's parents, hence they have been cleared in her death. Personally, I never believed them to be involved in the first place.

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:16 pm

No Snaz,

Not at all... I was just asking if there has been something come up, where the exoneration was retracted (and I hadnt heard about it)...

Sorry for the confusion... I was asking this because of the new life in the case and the fact that I may have missed an article oor presser on the subject....

I too never believed they had anything to do with it...

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:27 pm

For a long time (years and years) I did not feel comfortable about the family's possible involvement. I did not want them to be involved. I just wasn't sure.

Such a horror. Such a tragedy. But LE fumbled around and messed up the investigation from the get go. Everything was contaminated including the crime scene. No one followed protocol. Evidence was misshandled even lost.

The Ramsay's were mega rich and came complete with high powered attorneys. Would not speak to LE without their attorney present. (In retrospect, this may have been the smartest thing to do). They refused to let LE speak with Burke (Could us 'poor' folks have gotten away with simply telling the police that we would not allow them to talk to another child (witness) in the house at the time of the murder? I think not). It became an issue of "were they rich enough to get away with murder?"

There was suspicion about who wrote the note (Patsy?). Why was the 'ransom' amount the exact same amount as John's bonus? Could the crime scene have been messed up any more than it was? Was there a stalker? Possibly a stalker who was sexually perverted and excited by JonBenet's pagent shows? Was it John? Oh the accusations flew!

I always felt bad for the Ramsay's, not just because of the horrific murder but because they were (and still are, even in death) considered suspects for, what, over a decade or more? Does a cold case mean that the family will always be suspected? What a mess. And don't even get me started on that deviant wierdo John Mark Carr! kh
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:48 pm

lol KH.. I hear you... I just wanted to add that the Ramseys were like so mnay where they were EXTREMELY cooperative ..they gave their statements, did polys, did the interrogatrions, and it was only AFTER LE were relentlessly going after them, did they have no choice but to lawyer up...

I actually wish they had have done so the first day...

This investigation is a typical one where the parents guardians are blamed and the more they do to try and get LE to listen..the more trouble they end up making for themsleves..

I CAN NOT imagine what it wud be like for a MOTHER to lose her beloved child to murder....and to be blamed for doing the unimaginable thing of taking away the life, you gave....

It is dispicable as to what this family endiured and still does,....

There is DNA in which has not been matched and all we know is that was that of a male and it was not a match to the male Ramseys....

Still though, even with a letter of an apology from the State, the doubt iis still cast, and no perp has been caught and brought to justice for this sweet child's heinous murder.

The thought that the last years of Patsy's life were spent begging ppl to believe that she wud have never harmed her own baby ,makes me puke...

The double standard that seems for the mostpart to be acceptable is what needs to change..

An letter oof exeoneration, DNA that excludes the family, no evidence being found agaisnt the family has to be enough to give them the benefit..
If LE does not have public support for continuing to go after the Ramseys, it will stop.. We can make that happen...

Its no wonder the gen public seem to have no concept of what REASONABLE DOUBT is.. It sems to be non existent within the leaders of our justice system, and court representatives.. If we see court officials/LE have no practise of reasonable doubt...how can we expect to have it???


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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:56 pm

AJ: "...............Still though, even with a letter of an apology from the State, the doubt iis still cast, and no perp has been caught and brought to justice for this sweet child's heinous murder....."

There are still people who think even after her courageous fight with cancer not to mention the nightmarish murder of her little girl, that Pasty Ramsay is in some way culpable.

They still think John is too.

Very sad.

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:33 pm

snipped:
Julie if the above snip is true...

the way I read it is that the DNA on the underwear, was later confirmed to match the DNA on the leggings...


AJ - I didn't have a chance to read all of the link that Snaz left, but from the quote you left.....

"The Bode Lab recovered DNA from the top part of the leggings, on both the right and left legs, where the perpetrator would have put his hands to move them. Those new “touch” samples from the leggings match the DNA that was found in 1997 on the panties."


....it does sound like the same perp left touch DNA both on her leggings, as well as her panties. I kind of lost track of this case too over the years, but I did remember hearing about DNA somehow being tracked to the factory workers. I don't remember much else, and that's why when Snaz originally mentioned it, I was like "Oh, yeah...I remember that!" But I didn't follow up on any further info or anything.

I also don't think her parents had anything to do with her murder, and while on youtube today, I watched a few videos from the sidebar and after seeing a forensics photo of the garotte around her neck in the youtube, I'm even more sure that her parents couldn't have done that to her.


I hope they can solve JonBenet's case.



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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:37 pm

Yes KH, agreed...

This is a good example of how once the doubt is cast, it is never going away....

How tragic....

and we as society are to blame for this....

How can it stop?

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:46 pm

Me too Julie,

Its cases like this where we see LE and society focused on the wrong ppl that must encourage perps to continue to commit these high risk crimes....

WHynot? they never get suspected unless they are caught red handed.. (which unfortunaltly doesnt happen offen)

The part that really frustrates me is that although we as society know these type of ppersp exist .. We know for a fact that many perps have gone right into ppls homes and taken their children... we know this .. we have seen this... we have seen attempts made were kids are grabbed and tried to be pushed into cars, to and from school and even at school...

Yet when we hear of a crime like this one, or Kyron, or Haleigh...

the last thing on LE's mind is that a perp did it...

The first thing out of their mouths is how they dont think it is random yet they have based their opinion on nothing but hope...

I hope our society changes and becomes more demanding of LE.. The bar needs to be reaised...

We nned investigating and searching right at the start...I wud never say to discount a parent/guardian right off the hope, but at the same time, treat the case as though it wasnt the parent...

We have to send a strong message to the pig/monsters that we are no longer going to let them walk away and laugh at the justice system.....

This case included... I hope the public stop accepting LE bother this family... enough is enough... they have hard evidence... they need to find out who's dna was found, and doubtfully Burke (who was 9 yrs old) has anymore info that he has already given. Byt LE talking to him it just perpetuates the doubt that was cast on this family from day 1....

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:48 pm

I also think the cable media and probably blogs (not this one, of course) have contributed to the confusions in these cases.

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by khintx on Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:28 pm

Julie wrote:....................I also don't think her parents had anything to do with her murder, and while on youtube today, I watched a few videos from the sidebar and after seeing a forensics photo of the garotte around her neck in the youtube, I'm even more sure that her parents couldn't have done that to her...........

Parents do do horrible, unspeakable things to their own children. It is beyond shocking, but not unbelievable simply because of the cases we see every day where parents starve, molest, mistreat and physical/sexuallly abuse their own children to death. It is a sad fact of life. kh
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Julie on Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:09 pm

kh, true, I agree, but somehow the garotte makes it seems like an outsider, not one of her parents, jmo.

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:29 pm

This is from Sept. 13, but has not been posted... so....

Woman claims to have new evidence in Ramsey murder

Julie Hayden Reporter
8:35 PM MDT, September 13, 2010



DENVER - Nearly 14 years after six year old JonBenet Ramsey was murdered in her Boulder home, the murder mystery remains one of the hottest cold cases in the country.

And now a Boulder woman wants Boulder Police to refocus on her former boyfriend, former Boulder journalist Chris Wolf.

Jacqueline Brungardt took samples of individual letters from journals and papers of Wolf's and compared them to the ransom note found in the Ramsey home.

Brungardt claims when you overlay words like "arrange", "attaché", "adequate", "withdraw" and "exhausting" there are striking similarities.


Read more: http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-jonbenet-evidence-txt,0,3917350.story

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:32 pm

Hard to believe JonBenet would have been 20 now had she lived.... Sad

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Justice4all on Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:33 pm

Here is a page that has links to crime scene photos, the autopsy report, floor plans of the Ramsey home, and much more. Some of the photos are very graphic and disturbing, but the site has warnings before you click on links to any graphic photos.

http://www.crimeshots.com/JonBenetCase.html
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Snaz on Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:47 pm

Old article, but interesting....

JonBenet: DNA Rules Out Parents
Will New Evidence Lead To A Break In This Murder Case?

By Rebecca Leung
March 26, 2005

(CBS) On the surface, Boulder, Colo., is the ideal American town. It's beautiful, peaceful, and seemingly cut off from the types of crime that infect larger cities. It's no wonder that Boulder attracts successful, affluent families like the Ramseys.

”We moved to Boulder. We very strongly felt we had moved to a very safe, small kind of 'Ozzie and Harriet' kind of community,” says John Ramsey, JonBenet's father.

But, last December, Correspondent Erin Moriarty exposed a different side of this quaint small city -- a darker side, made up of a small group of burglars, thieves, and sex offenders.

It's where the answer to Boulder's most notorious unsolved murder, the case of JonBenet Ramsey, may be found. And investigators hope new evidence will finally lead to a break in the case.The nightmare began eight years ago, in the early hours of Dec. 26, 1996, with a 911 call from JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey.

Boulder police responded immediately to Ramsey's call for help, and what first looked like a kidnapping quickly became a murder, when JonBenet's body was found by her father in a small storage room in the basement of her house.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/48hours/main661569.shtml

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:14 pm

Thanks for the oldie but goldie J4A.. I remember being in shock when I saw this particular 48 hrs... I remember being stunned at learning how LE were relentless in going after the parents...and when the PI revealed such a similar event close by, and it was ignored..I just cudnt believe that this cud happen..


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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Justice4all on Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:51 pm













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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:02 am

NG was a big Ramsey hater and a great influence in encouraging the hate fest against this family...

Even though there has been dna matches on several articles of clothing last I heard NG was discounting such a huge find....

I imagine she hasnt changed her tune...

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Justice4all on Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:42 am

NG said she has long believed that neither Burke Ramsey nor his father had anything to do with her murder. She doesn't seem to be sold on Patsy being innocent. She pointed out that many people think the DNA may have come during the manufacturing process or during handling, but she had a medical examiner on who said that DNA is very susceptible to detergent and it's not likely you would be able to extract any DNA prior to the point of the clothing being washed.

I agree that any talk of Burke doing it is absurd, as he would not have been physically capable of pulling off the crime and staging her body in the wine cellar the way it was.
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by LottieM on Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:08 pm

I, seemingly for one, haven't ruled Patsy out as the one who killed Jon Benet. I have always held in the back of my mind that Patsy flew off the handle that night and accidentally killed her baby girl.

Patsy had plenty of reason for extreme frustration that night. For one thing, her maid/or housekeeper/helper had just quit and Patsy was stuck with chores and responsibilities she didn't normally assume...and she had to pack and get ready for that trip they were supposed to take Dec 26th....that's why she was up so early that morning in the first place...I can't recall what time they were supposed to leave, but I think it was quite early she claimed she 'got up to pack and found the note'.

So they had the party the night before at their friend's house, come home and Patsy has to pack for the trip because hadn't done it yet (according to reports)....Jon Benet had fallen asleep on the way home (IIRC) and you know how kids are when they get a cat nap they might be hard pressed to go back to sleep...enter the pineapple in the kitchen that Jon Benet ate that night (as it was found in her stomach per the autopsy) and it seems Jon Benet didn't go right to bed after she got home. Now we get to the sheets in the washing machine that hadn't been washed yet but had urine on them...and Jon Benet was a bedwetter! I can see Jon Benet finally going to bed after frustrating Patsy and wanting pineapple she then didn't even finish eating- which may have pissed patsy off some more, then waking up soiled and Patsy fuming because of the trip she was packing for and for not having gone to bed yet her own self (my assumption that she didn't go to bed yet based on what all she had to do before the morning and that Jon Benet was being a pain the butt). Jon Benet and Patsy were probably the only ones up in the house, Patsy was tired and angry at all the problems JB was making for her when she was already on overload....and I can just see Patsy loosing control.

I think at that point, it's likely Patsy got hubby John up and they staged the rest of it, including the note. Sure, it sounds so hard to believe they'd do this.....but what choice did they have? If Patsy had done this in a frustrated rage, she was going to jail! And you have think about how they were used to 'dressing Jon Benet up' in the first place...so this was just another dressup for her.

And don't forget how John didn't want his friend to open that door to the room JB was in the first time they searched the house...then he finally does later and he doesn't even freak out? He carries her to the xmas tree thus disturbing the crime scene after the cops were already there? I say, John had to get his nerve up to open that door he KNEW Jon Benet was behind.

The broken paintbrush used with the garrote was from Patsy's paint box. You'd think an intruder coming in to garrote JB would have brought his own tools for the job....I think it was an impromptu choice because it was handy and already had Patsy's prints/DNA on it so it didn't matter. Were anyone else's fingerprints/DNA found on that paintbrush handle? If so, it was never said...

but they want to talk about DNA on her undies and the leggings....but it was well known that Jon Benet needed help going to the bathroom, wiping herself and pulling up her own garments....and it was said while at the party one of the adult males there had helped JB that night go potty.

As for the sexual molestation....I heard way back when that it wasn't from a human body part, but from an object that left splinters.

Some of those marks on JB look like stun gun marks and John had a stun gun that was never found. But he sure didn't make a big deal out of wanting to know where it went to, and the cops didn't either.

Also, a neighbor heard a scream from the house just after midnight....could this have been JB screaming because Patsy had bopped her one for getting in her way while she was busy and too tired to deal with it?

If you watch those shows about Kids in pageants and pay attention to the mothers, it's easy to see these kids are there for the mother's joy of the pageant and the moms don't take kindly to the children just being kids. they are very short on patience with their kids just being kids. They have already dehumanized their children. I'd guess Patsy held this same attitude with Jon Benet and might be just as short tempered with JB's age-appropriate behavior if her main interest in JB was in her winning pageants.

Well, I know you guys don't agree...but I just wanted to give my reasons why I haven't ruled the family out yet...particularly Patsy.

PS...I didn't watch NG back then because I didn't have cable.
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:28 pm

"PS...I didn't watch NG back then because I didn't have cable."

------------------------

lol Lottie.. I doubt you were missing much!!!

Thanks for your theory...

A couple of questions though...

Anyone at that house has been checked and rechecked and had someone not given their dna... it wud have become public..

This wud rule out a families friend's DNA being on JonBonsts clothing...

This DNA has never been matched to anyone...

Where did this dna come from??? Anyone who had contact with JonBonet that day was known and checked....

Many ligaturers used in random violent crimes, belong to the victim... (even guns and knives) underwear/extension cords....ironic in mnay cases how their own belongings, actually killed them...

Doesnt it seem weird that a parent who wud lose their temper and inadvertantly kill their child, wud do it with a garrote?

There was confirmed forced entry along with a boot prints that didnt match anyones in the house.. this is where LE went wront to begin..

Such a horrible crime and after reading about so many stocking crimes, it seems like it was prolly some pig who who stalked her and prolly even went to many of the pageants as observers...

I dont know thhat they ever checked that out.. Back in the day, there wud likley not have been any cameras to go bak on, but it wud be interesting to know if LE ever looked at other particiapnts pictures where they cud lok at identifying ppl in the background...


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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by LottieM on Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:15 pm

You're right, aj...there are things that could point to an intruder. This is one reason why I only just haven't let Patsy off the hook rather than full out believe she did it.

The garrote is an odd thing in this case to imagine Patsy or John may have done. And I would never believe they did that to her while she was alive...staging, yes, but I don't believe they'd have done that to her while she was alive. I wonder if the forensics on that ever said if the bruising was before or after death bruising. That would be a key for me to absolve Patsy of the 'accident'.

Let's say though, for sake of argument, the garrote was staged by the Ramseys....why go to that extreme? I don't have an answer for that, but it makes me wonder why an intruder would do that in addition to hitting her on the head.

There was just too many different things done to Jon Benet. Not the least of which began when she was removed from her bed - if we're saying intruder here. I know kids have been removed from their bed without the family hearing anything (Elizabeth Smart for one)...but it's very unusual for an intruder to kill inside the house and hide the body inside the house as well as having taken the chance of abducting her from her bed while everyone was home.

I also don't get the ransom note....it was for a kidnapping! Playing on the intruder angle, we are to believe an intruder - who knew exactly how much bonus John got- had planned to kidnap Jon Benet but after leaving the note decided to tie her up, garrote her, molest her, hit her in the head and kill her in the basement?

And also, Patsy walked right past that note on the stairs on her way down....and didn't see it until she was going back up later on. How do walk past a note on spiral stairs in the first place? How do you walk past never-before-seen papers on any stairs your walking down? We're just left to believe Patsy was oblivious to things being on the stairs and then, before she even knows Jon Benet isn't in her bed, she suddenly becomes interested in those very same papers.

Now think about an intruder putting them on the stairs in the first place....what a silly place to put them...why not just leave them in Jon Benet's room? And when would he have put them on the stairs anyhow? Let's imagine he's got Jon Benet in his arms and also the note..that isn't crumpled and turns and lays it down all neatly with Jon Benet in his arms not making a fuss or anything then moves on to the basement. The alternatives are that he put it there before he went up to get her(and then didn't trip over them on his way down carrying a child, hence couldn't watch his footing)....or that he returned and put it there after he killed her (which is taking a huge risk!)...but all ways seem intentional to make it seem like someone sneaked up those particular stairs that were close to Jon Benet's room and therefore could have done so without alerting her parents. Your average ordinary perp who may have been sexually interested in JB from her pageants wouldn't know the layout of the house.

It's just a mess! Sad
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:00 pm

It sure has been a mess.... and the saddest part is that perps win in so mnay of these cases...

Reason is ... look at how many cases we see that the parents were blamed and we later find out that they were telling the truth all along...

They are the fortunate ones(hate to use that word as how fortunate is a family who's child was murdered and practically right under their noses...)

My point is.. if we look at cases where there was later exoneration ..(Fox and Lundsford) we can see that the parents never did lie...

Specifically at the Fox case, where the child was raped and killed... they made a great circumstantial case about the father and even had him convicted and there was never any previous violence in his history.. hot temper though...

Now if you look at this case, there was never any violence...

From the autopsy...

" The results of the autopsy revealed that JonBenét was killed by strangulation and a skull fracture. A garrote made from a length of tweed cord and the broken handle of a paintbrush had been used to strangle her"....

On account that the autopsy says this ligature was used to strangle her... leads me to believe it was confirmed by physical forensics that the garotte, wasnt staged...

Assuming that the official report is correct, it seesm so unlikley that the Ramseys wud have gone to this extreme in a heated rage ....

Many victims who are taken (even in their sleep), are beaten....then killed with a ligature...

Many of these crime victims died of strangulation where the autopsy reveals blunt force trauma to the head...

This particular crime, meets the criteria of a monster stalker who followed her. The monster didnt need to know the floor plan as once inside he cud have become familiar.. He was able to take her from her bedroom, and get her through the house without being caught..

WHo knows how long he was in there and whether or not he even overheard their conversations that night... The bonus amount of 118k maybe even was brought up./...

Im sad that even though they have been exonerated from this horrible tagedy ... it never ends..

I cant imagine losing a child let aloone losing them to murder...

I sure cant imagine how it wud feel to be blamed for it..

Appears that reasonable doubt is almost non existent...

On account that the state has exonerated him, one wud think that shud be enough ...

To think that so many ppl convict where there is only a small possibility of guilt (only becasue of circumstance), but far more reasons why they wudnt have done it is very sad...

A stalker cud have been in that house for hours.....who'd have known..? There are many crimes where perps get into the house and stay there and hide for hours before they have the oppurtunity... there are many cases like that...

There is no reason for Patsy to have ever been suspected of such a heinous crime to her own flesh and blood..

Missing a paper on the floor/steps is easy for anyone to do... especially if one was distracted...

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by LottieM on Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:30 am

All you say is just more reason why this case is and will always be a mess.

Do you really trust everything the cops and medical examiners say? See....I don't. In Jon Benet's case there was a large bruise on her neck lower down from where the ligature was that was marked "Unidentified" ...could have been the cause of the actual strangulation as it was similar to an adult thumb-sized bruise....garrote added later. There's no way of really knowing so it's all just guessing.

The medical examiner also marked those stun-gun-like marks on her as Unidentified. and that huge dark circle on her face was marked Unidentified.

It looks like to me, the ME just said "Oops there's a garrote involved....she must have died from that."

And what about that blow to her head? Was there blood from that? Or was that done long after she was able to bleed from it? I never heard....
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:56 am

I guess, in every case and every crime in the world, suspicion cud be cast against the last lnown person who wud be with the victim..(especially children)...

The sad thing is that it seems like no matter how much circumstantial evidence there is to eliminate the last known person...
(in this case)

No previous violence

No motive

Evidence of a horrifically brutal attack

PPL, who have been amongst society for years where there were nothing but good things to say about these ppl...

No evidence found from them (DNA)

The fact that there was forced entry finally found..

The fact that there were unknown unidentified boot prints found at the scene...

---------------------------

The bottom line is that we cud prolly have made Mother Teresa look guilty, had she been involved or with a person who had been killed...

It appears that many ppl, do not want to give any credit to the circumstantial evidence that shows the person was prolly not guilty, where imo this is huge miscarriage of justice...

I suspect I am of the minority if I say, that unless I knew 100 percent that the person did it, and there were no goood reasons to think they may not have been involved.. I wud say NOT GUILTY...

It appears there is a weakness in our justice system where we want to see the loved one being guilty...

Through many many cases I have researched.. I am seeing a common thread, that if there was any oppurtunity at all for the last known person to have been involved .. they will be found guilty...

It is in the last 10 yrs (especially) where we are seeing an astromincal number of ppl who are finally being exhonerated for crimes they were convicted of only because they cud have done it...

In other words, there is no room logic when we assess a persons guilt... many are hellbent on thinking that becasue a person CUD have done something... it means in far too mnay cases, that they shud be punished for the crime, just in case it was them....

I feel that it wud be better to give the person the benefit of the doubt, if there is really no hard evidence to say they did commit the crime...

Seems like our justice system is deleting/omitting/disregarding what Reasonable Doubt is.. for this I am sickened..

Our justice system was designed for the implematation of Reasonable Doubt to be utilized and relied on in judging...

I feel that it is a problem that is being generated above us... We are following the ppl we elect and put in charge of investigations..

They are leading communities by guilty, until pproven innocent and we are following in their footsteps..

How many cases do we see this " ideal" being used from day oone oof investigations..

I know myself, I am a true advocate for justice, and imo justice works both ways...

Its bad enough that a crime victim endured whatever the crime was against them...

I am hellbent in seeking jjustice for that victim.

Even when it means, fighting tooth and nail in effort to point out flaws in LE's theories when they so often go after the wrong person...

I persoanlly think that there is twisted logic in many crimes, and in all honesty, it doesnt seem logical to think that a family who has been praised for being great ppl and parents...cud garrote their baby, stuff her, crack her skull, and outsmart LE in leaving no evidence...

I am sad for this family who have lost more than many of can even imagine.. Too think they have had to live their lives with the thought that ppl cud think they cud do such a thing to their baby and get away with it... is just .....hmmm I cant even find a word...

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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Estee on Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:11 pm

Shades of Jon Benet...I'm watching Law and Order' Criminal Intent and the story line is similar to her case with that nut job confessing to her murder...
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Justice4all on Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:19 pm

The Ramsey case will be featured on True Crime With Aphrodite Jones on Investigation Discovery at 10 PM on Thursday March 31.








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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

Post by Piper on Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:18 pm

Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to record because I always forget what time a program comes on until it's too late.
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Re: JonBenet Ramsey -- Found Deceased 12/25/96

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