Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 12:29 am

snowbird wrote:I hope I read the transcript correct, the father states that he fell asleep in front of the TV in the living room and didn't hear a sound. He states she was on the other side of wall, so this would be so different then sleeping on the other side of the house. I know there was talk about them not hearing someone break in because house was large and master bedroom was on the other side of the children's rooms. This case has always been strange to me. I feel so sorry for her brothers.

BBM

Watching a game that had finished by the time he said everyone was settled into bed and he was in front of the TV.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Tue May 15, 2012 12:40 am

Tamta wrote:
snowbird wrote:I hope I read the transcript correct, the father states that he fell asleep in front of the TV in the living room and didn't hear a sound. He states she was on the other side of wall, so this would be so different then sleeping on the other side of the house. I know there was talk about them not hearing someone break in because house was large and master bedroom was on the other side of the children's rooms. This case has always been strange to me. I feel so sorry for her brothers.

BBM

Watching a game that had finished by the time he said everyone was settled into bed and he was in front of the TV.


i looked up schedule for Diamondbacks...game was local at 6:40 that night, it would not still be on at midnight...could of recorded it i guess, still an odd thing to bring up when your daughter is missing.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Justice4all on Tue May 15, 2012 12:50 am

Honeysage wrote:i looked up schedule for Diamondbacks...game was local at 6:40 that night, it would not still be on at midnight...could of recorded it i guess, still an odd thing to bring up when your daughter is missing.
They could have been showing a replay. A replay of the Tigers game is on right now on Fox Sports Detroit. For night games at least for the Tigers, they typically show the game live, show the post game show, and then show a replay of the game. Of course, many people who create alibis like to throw in a lot of extra details about what they were doing during the time in question.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 12:52 am

Justice4all wrote:
Honeysage wrote:i looked up schedule for Diamondbacks...game was local at 6:40 that night, it would not still be on at midnight...could of recorded it i guess, still an odd thing to bring up when your daughter is missing.
They could have been showing a replay. A replay of the Tigers game is on right now on Fox Sports Detroit. For night games at least for the Tigers, they typically show the game live, show the post game show, and then show a replay of the game. Of course, many people who create alibis like to throw in a lot of extra details about what they were doing during the time in question.

i immediately assumed that he recorded it or whatever people can do with tv's now.

but exactly as you said- it was the extra info that was a red flag for me.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Tue May 15, 2012 12:57 am

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/151466045.html

CPS 411: Why Sergio Celis would be asked to stay away from his two sons


KGUN 9 reporter Valerie Cavazos asked if there could be some outside factors that's connected to that parent that would prompt CPS to take action. Rau replied, "It could be either one. There is a concern the children may not be safe with the parent or the environment the parent is presenting."

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Tue May 15, 2012 12:58 am

Tamta wrote:
snowbird wrote:I hope I read the transcript correct, the father states that he fell asleep in front of the TV in the living room and didn't hear a sound. He states she was on the other side of wall, so this would be so different then sleeping on the other side of the house. I know there was talk about them not hearing someone break in because house was large and master bedroom was on the other side of the children's rooms. This case has always been strange to me. I feel so sorry for her brothers.

BBM

Watching a game that had finished by the time he said everyone was settled into bed and he was in front of the TV.


Sergio does act odd and I thought the first press conf it felt like he was over acting. However, I don't know what he is like all the time or in normal circumstances. I wouldn't necessarily expect someone to her noises if they were asleep with the TV on. LE called CPS because of something they learned in an interview. My first thought was that perhaps Sergio is distraught and was becoming angry or maybe said something that caused LE to think he was unstable and a danger to the other children. But that would not necessarily mean he couldn't communicate with them over the phone and reports state it was an agreed separation between CPS and the parents. I tend to agree it could be that he is trying to influence the boys. That would explain the no contact whatsoever agreement.

Although, events and mannerisms by the parents have been odd, we simply don't have enough info to point the finger yet. Somehow, I think that may change soon.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue May 15, 2012 1:09 am

nanaof4 wrote:
Tamta wrote:
snowbird wrote:I hope I read the transcript correct, the father states that he fell asleep in front of the TV in the living room and didn't hear a sound. He states she was on the other side of wall, so this would be so different then sleeping on the other side of the house. I know there was talk about them not hearing someone break in because house was large and master bedroom was on the other side of the children's rooms. This case has always been strange to me. I feel so sorry for her brothers.

BBM

Watching a game that had finished by the time he said everyone was settled into bed and he was in front of the TV.


Sergio does act odd and I thought the first press conf it felt like he was over acting. However, I don't know what he is like all the time or in normal circumstances. I wouldn't necessarily expect someone to her noises if they were asleep with the TV on. LE called CPS because of something they learned in an interview. My first thought was that perhaps Sergio is distraught and was becoming angry or maybe said something that caused LE to think he was unstable and a danger to the other children. But that would not necessarily mean he couldn't communicate with them over the phone and reports state it was an agreed separation between CPS and the parents. I tend to agree it could be that he is trying to influence the boys. That would explain the no contact whatsoever agreement.

Although, events and mannerisms by the parents have been odd, we simply don't have enough info to point the finger yet. Somehow, I think that may change soon.


He is not allowed to have contact with his sons.

"Tucson authorities have informed Sergio Celis, father of missing six-year-old Isabel Celis, that he cannot have contact with his other children."

"The father of Isabel Celis, a missing 6-year-old Tucson girl, is no longer allowed to have contact with his two older sons."
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 1:24 am

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 1:29 am

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 1:33 am

Freckles wrote:
Thanks. Reading them now. study

Cool
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 2:07 am

Isabel Celis 911 Calls Released: ‘My Little Girl … I Believe She Was Abducted’

snipped

Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villasenor said:

“Probably, [there are] about 12 to 15 detectives that are assigned to follow external viewpoints on this investigation, the possibility of a stranger abduction or something of that like,” he said. “And then, we have probably four detectives or so that are following the possibility of inside-the-family involvement.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/isabel-celis-911-calls-released-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 2:28 am

Transcripts may help us to understand why the father is limited in contact with the boys.My comments on transcripts. See:

Page 2: Line 3:
"I just called her and told her to get her butt home." (chuckles)

Page 2: Line 28, 29:
Q. (eye color) Are they hazel or
A. ... green, green, hazel, sure.

Page 3: Line 1, 16:
A. uh, before she went to bed I believe she was wearing little navy blue shorts and, and a pink, uh, a pink like little, uh, tank top type of shirt.

A. You know about 10:30 last night. (clears throat) Everyone took their showers and they all went to bed. I even was in the living room watching, uh, the Diamondbacks game at midnight.

-- Odd she took the shower but put on shorts and a tank top. Is this what she was last seen it in at ball park?

Page 3: Line 21, 24:
A. And I fell asleep and I never there heard anything weird. So I was just like on the ...
A. ... on the other side of the wall.

-- He is offering explanations as to why he never heard anything. However, he is giving more info than called for.

Page 3: Line 37:
A. he went running around to make sure um, but I, she's nowhere...
A. ...to be seen.

Page 4: Line 30, 36-37, 39-41 :
Q. What is you son's name?
A. (totally off track)
A. --- You asked me about my son. What did you ask me?

Q. Yeah. The, the 14 year old old that's out looking for her?
A. Yes. What about him?

Q. --- Actually I think one of your sons is trying to call me. Um, I 'm sorry, what was your 14 year old son's name?
A. Sergio

--- Notice the difficulty in getting straight answers. When the call ends, the father indicates his wife is hysterical and "kinda freaking out" and in closing he says, "Bu-by". The closing statements I find rather out of place when a child is missing.


-- When he first calls, he tells 911 there has been a abduction. This is BEFORE the house, yard, neighborhood have been checked. This is BEFORE he has called his wife. Would a normal person not call the wife and ask, "Hey. Jane is gone and I was wondering if you might have dropped her off at Mary's this morning? " Fill in the name: Aunt Bee's, Grandma's Smith's, friend, neighbors, etc.. How about, "Jane is gone. Did she have morning plans you forgot to tell me about? Has she going to the game with one of the other players?"
IMO, that would have happened FIRST before a 911 call of an abduction.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation








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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 2:57 am

Tamta wrote:
justanopinion wrote:Not saying I am clearing anyone... Just that I had a friend that when she was in full panic would laugh. The more terrified she was the harder she laughed. He may have chuckled because he told her to get her butt home... may be some kind of private joke or because he cleaned it up for 911 maybe he actually had said "a$$"
Still think it is serious stuff to keep him from even talking to the boys... so will have to wait for that to be disclosed... if they do disclose why!

I've heard if that.

I Read Sergio's laugh more as arrogance:


"I called her and told her to get her butt home."


I took Sergio's laugh as more "arrogance", too...

And then the giggle...huh?

Whatever it was, it gave me a bad feeling.

But, I had a bad feeling, too, when I heard that the 14 y.o. was the one to call 911...why didn't dad call...then I later learned that dad did call 911.

Then I listened to the call, the clam demeanor, the chuckle, and ended up with a bad feeling all over again.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 2:59 am

Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
justanopinion wrote:Not saying I am clearing anyone... Just that I had a friend that when she was in full panic would laugh. The more terrified she was the harder she laughed. He may have chuckled because he told her to get her butt home... may be some kind of private joke or because he cleaned it up for 911 maybe he actually had said "a$$"
Still think it is serious stuff to keep him from even talking to the boys... so will have to wait for that to be disclosed... if they do disclose why!

I've heard if that.

I Read Sergio's laugh more as arrogance:


"I called her and told her to get her butt home."


I took Sergio's laugh as more "arrogance", too...

And then the giggle...huh?

Whatever it was, it gave me a bad feeling.

But, I had a bad feeling, too, when I heard that the 14 y.o. was the one to call 911...why didn't dad call...then I later learned that dad did call 911.

Then I listened to the call, the clam demeanor, the chuckle, and ended up with a bad feeling all over again.

puzzler,

i think sergio was doing everything he could to not be on that phone.
i think his plan was for the phone to go from his son to becky.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 3:06 am

Sergio's call was too calm...my "hinky meter" jumped up!

I would think that most people having to make a call to 911 about a missing child would be very emotional or talking loud and fast - at least at the beginning of the call...like Becky was - emotional at the beginning but trying to calm down to give specifics about the child.

Sergio was very emotional during the first presser - but no emotion in the 911 call, except in the arrogance shown in his statement about his wife.

That statement - the way it was presented - I'm thinking it's what I would call a "telling statement".


Last edited by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 3:07 am

Freckles wrote:Transcripts may help us to understand why the father is limited in contact with the boys.My comments on transcripts. See:

Page 2: Line 3:
"I just called her and told her to get her butt home." (chuckles)

Page 2: Line 28, 29:
Q. (eye color) Are they hazel or
A. ... green, green, hazel, sure.

Page 3: Line 1, 16:
A. uh, before she went to bed I believe she was wearing little navy blue shorts and, and a pink, uh, a pink like little, uh, tank top type of shirt.

A. You know about 10:30 last night. (clears throat) Everyone took their showers and they all went to bed. I even was in the living room watching, uh, the Diamondbacks game at midnight.

-- Odd she took the shower but put on shorts and a tank top. Is this what she was last seen it in at ball park?

Page 3: Line 21, 24:
A. And I fell asleep and I never there heard anything weird. So I was just like on the ...
A. ... on the other side of the wall.

-- He is offering explanations as to why he never heard anything. However, he is giving more info than called for.

Page 3: Line 37:
A. he went running around to make sure um, but I, she's nowhere...
A. ...to be seen.

Page 4: Line 30, 36-37, 39-41 :
Q. What is you son's name?
A. (totally off track)
A. --- You asked me about my son. What did you ask me?

Q. Yeah. The, the 14 year old old that's out looking for her?
A. Yes. What about him?

Q. --- Actually I think one of your sons is trying to call me. Um, I 'm sorry, what was your 14 year old son's name?
A. Sergio

--- Notice the difficulty in getting straight answers. When the call ends, the father indicates his wife is hysterical and "kinda freaking out" and in closing he says, "Bu-by". The closing statements I find rather out of place when a child is missing.


-- When he first calls, he tells 911 there has been a abduction. This is BEFORE the house, yard, neighborhood have been checked. This is BEFORE he has called his wife. Would a normal person not call the wife and ask, "Hey. Jane is gone and I was wondering if you might have dropped her off at Mary's this morning? " Fill in the name: Aunt Bee's, Grandma's Smith's, friend, neighbors, etc.. How about, "Jane is gone. Did she have morning plans you forgot to tell me about? Has she going to the game with one of the other players?"
IMO, that would have happened FIRST before a 911 call of an abduction.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation




Freckles,

this was the best-

Q: Why do you think that she was abducted?
A: I have no idea.

(I have no idea why I think that she was abducted but I know what happened!)

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 3:08 am

Tamta wrote:
Freckles wrote:Transcripts may help us to understand why the father is limited in contact with the boys.My comments on transcripts. See:

Page 2: Line 3:
"I just called her and told her to get her butt home." (chuckles)

Page 2: Line 28, 29:
Q. (eye color) Are they hazel or
A. ... green, green, hazel, sure.

Page 3: Line 1, 16:
A. uh, before she went to bed I believe she was wearing little navy blue shorts and, and a pink, uh, a pink like little, uh, tank top type of shirt.

A. You know about 10:30 last night. (clears throat) Everyone took their showers and they all went to bed. I even was in the living room watching, uh, the Diamondbacks game at midnight.

-- Odd she took the shower but put on shorts and a tank top. Is this what she was last seen it in at ball park?

Page 3: Line 21, 24:
A. And I fell asleep and I never there heard anything weird. So I was just like on the ...
A. ... on the other side of the wall.

-- He is offering explanations as to why he never heard anything. However, he is giving more info than called for.

Page 3: Line 37:
A. he went running around to make sure um, but I, she's nowhere...
A. ...to be seen.

Page 4: Line 30, 36-37, 39-41 :
Q. What is you son's name?
A. (totally off track)
A. --- You asked me about my son. What did you ask me?

Q. Yeah. The, the 14 year old old that's out looking for her?
A. Yes. What about him?

Q. --- Actually I think one of your sons is trying to call me. Um, I 'm sorry, what was your 14 year old son's name?
A. Sergio

--- Notice the difficulty in getting straight answers. When the call ends, the father indicates his wife is hysterical and "kinda freaking out" and in closing he says, "Bu-by". The closing statements I find rather out of place when a child is missing.


-- When he first calls, he tells 911 there has been a abduction. This is BEFORE the house, yard, neighborhood have been checked. This is BEFORE he has called his wife. Would a normal person not call the wife and ask, "Hey. Jane is gone and I was wondering if you might have dropped her off at Mary's this morning? " Fill in the name: Aunt Bee's, Grandma's Smith's, friend, neighbors, etc.. How about, "Jane is gone. Did she have morning plans you forgot to tell me about? Has she going to the game with one of the other players?"
IMO, that would have happened FIRST before a 911 call of an abduction.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation




Freckles,

this was the best-

Q: Why do you think that she was abducted?
A: I have no idea.

(I have no idea why I think that she was abducted but I know what happened!)


Yes, I caught that while listening to the call, too.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 3:09 am

Puzzler wrote:Sergio's call was too calm...my "hinky meter" jumped up!

I would think that most people having to make a call to 911 about a missing child would be very emotional or talking loud and fast - at least at the beginning of the call...like Becky was - emotional at the beginning but trying to calm down to give specifics about the child.

Sergio was very emotional during the first presser - but no emotion in the 911 call, except in the arrogance shown in his statement about his wife.

That statement - the way it was presented - I'm thinking it's what I would call a "telling statement".

Indeed.

Underscored by the fact that he referred to her as a missing person that was his duty to report instead of his daughter!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 3:25 am

Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Sergio's call was too calm...my "hinky meter" jumped up!

I would think that most people having to make a call to 911 about a missing child would be very emotional or talking loud and fast - at least at the beginning of the call...like Becky was - emotional at the beginning but trying to calm down to give specifics about the child.

Sergio was very emotional during the first presser - but no emotion in the 911 call, except in the arrogance shown in his statement about his wife.

That statement - the way it was presented - I'm thinking it's what I would call a "telling statement".

Indeed.

Underscored by the fact that he referred to her as a missing person that was his duty to report instead of his daughter!

Agree.

I don't know if you followed the case in North Carolina where the young girl who had cancer went missing, her father was from Australia (sorry, can't remember her name right now).....the calmness in that father's call was chilling and listening to Sergio's phone call made me remember the Australian father....just remembered...the girl's name was Zahara Baker.


Last edited by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 3:42 am

Transcript:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation

The son, Sergio, call to 911:
Page 8/13
Line: 26
A. She was probably wearing pajamas.

--- Father stated shorts and a tank top.

Line 27: Do you know what color?
Line 28: Mm, maybe green. I don't know.

-- Father stated pink top and navy shorts.

Mother to 911:
Page 10/13:
Line 32-34:
Q. Ok. There was an Old Navy uh shirt with a flag and navy shorts?
A. Yes, and (... off track)

--- Father stated dau was wearing pink tank top with navy shorts AFTER taking her shower.
--- Brother Sergio states she was in pajamas, maybe green ones
--- Mother states dau was wearing an Old Navy shirt with flag and navy shorts.


Mother to 911:
Page 12/13:
Line 37-41:
Q. Okay. Does, uh, any uh marks, scars?
A. Other than the window out, I can't see anything else. And the door is locked to outside so they had to have jumped over the fence or, I don't know what they did, but oh my God, the cops are here, can I just hang up...

--- Mother is not answering the question but is inserting her own answers to something not even close
--- How could "the door" be locked when so many have gone in and out?
--- If "they" jumped over a fence, how would "they" have removed the child? A live, kicking , screaming child hauled up and BACK over a fence? Makes no sense.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Ann - Tx on Tue May 15, 2012 4:30 am



Issues: Jane Velez-Mitchell (29:18) Air Date: 5-14-12


Source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N2K9bM2-iOI
YouTube -- Published on May 14, 2012 by Sierra1947
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Ann - Tx on Tue May 15, 2012 4:39 am

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/14/ijvm.01.html
CNN.com - Transcripts JVM 5-14-12

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Isabel`s Dad Banned from Seeing Sons; Medical Mystery; Week 2 of Jane`s Weight Loss Adventure

Aired May 14, 2012 - 19:00 ET


Last edited by Justice4all on Tue May 15, 2012 9:16 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed transcript link)
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 4:55 am

Ann - Tx wrote:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/14/ijvm.01.html
CNN.com - Transcripts JVM 5-14-12

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Isabel`s Dad Banned from Seeing Sons; Medical Mystery; Week 2 of Jane`s Weight Loss Adventure

Aired May 14, 2012 - 19:00 ET

Bad link. Tried to hand feed it in to no avail.
Would you be able to repost the link for the transcript?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 5:04 am

Ann - Tx wrote:

Issues: Jane Velez-Mitchell (29:18) Air Date: 5-14-12


Source:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=N2K9bM2-iOI
YouTube -- Published on May 14, 2012 by Sierra1947
Interesting how the father appears to be scanning the audience and then working himself up. Mother has custody of the boys without the father. Father was ASKED to be apart and willingly agreed; father did NOT demand to stay with his children.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 5:25 am

If the dogs were outside, they would have kept a stranger away.

If the dogs were inside, they would have protected the family.

Where were the dogs?

Father said his room had a wall adjoining that of his dau. According to the house plans I saw at Hinky, the parents room were on the opposite side of the house with no adjoining wall.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Tue May 15, 2012 7:29 am

The father said he fell asleep on the sofa while watching a ballgame.

So..is there a living room or family room, etc. on the opposite side of the wall from Isabel's bedroom?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 15, 2012 8:57 am

OK, so all the original news reports stated that Becky Celis left for work at 7:30am. Most of my linked sources are trapped at THM. But I found one of the earlier transcripts:

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And let`s go into some of the nitty-gritty of this case. The parents told cops they last saw Isabel 11:00 p.m. Friday April 20th. They tucked her into bed or as she was headed to bed for a baseball game the next morning. The next morning Isabel`s mom leaves for work at 7:30 a.m. And half hour later the dad goes to wake Isabel up and says he finds her missing.

I repeatedly saw this time 7:30am mentioned in the news. NOW we learn from the 911 call that Becky reports that she left for work at 7:00am.

However, we also know from the neighbors reports that all the Celis dogs, including her own, were going absolutely nuts at 6:30am. Becky would have been awake by 6:30am because she would be getting ready to leave for work - she would have heard the dogs.

There is no way Becky did not hear those dogs unless she was already gone from the house before 6:30am.

Concerning about the conflicting reports between mother and father regarding what Isa was last seen wearing. Both say navy shorts -- but dad says pink tank top and mom says Old Navy navy blue shirt with flags.

I think it was reported she had the flag shirt on at the ballpark (?)

Pink tank top sounds more like what a kid would wear to bed. Does this indicate that Becky went to bed before Sergio and assumed he would put Isa to bed? It's possible considering she had to be at work so early the next day.

Have either the pink tank top or blue flagged shirt been accounted for in the home or is either one missing?

I was married to a man who would fall asleep on the sofa watching tv - the only time he would do that was when he was drunk. Otherwise he would have preferred the comfort of his bed. Just sayin.

Just how many people called 911? I'm getting confused. Were there only two disctinct calls placed to 911? But it sounds like a total of 3 people spoke to 911: Sergio Jr, Sergio (on one call), Becky (on 2nd call) is that right?

Where is it documented that the first 911 call was placed prior to Sergio checking outside of the home?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Guest on Tue May 15, 2012 8:58 am

I watched the TODAY Show this morning. This was reported:

LE says Sergio's statements are inconsistant
NOTHING to support abduction
LE still calling it "suspicious disappearance"

Clint Van Zant weighed in:
said stress level different in Sergio & Becky on 911 call BUT that stress is handled differently by different people

Clint said all info just pieces of puzzle BUT it is pointing inside the home.

Matt ask about the NO CONTACT order & Clint said:
"could be used by LE to drive a wedge between the parent's or "could be a lot of people in/out of the home.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/47426268#47426268

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 15, 2012 9:00 am

Freckles wrote:Transcript:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation

Q. Okay. Does, uh, any uh marks, scars?
A. Other than the window out, I can't see anything else. And the door is locked to outside so they had to have jumped over the fence or, I don't know what they did, but oh my God, the cops are here, can I just hang up...

--- Mother is not answering the question but is inserting her own answers to something not even close
--- How could "the door" be locked when so many have gone in and out?
--- If "they" jumped over a fence, how would "they" have removed the child? A live, kicking , screaming child hauled up and BACK over a fence? Makes no sense.

I am not alarmed by Becky's response. Again, I think we have a language barrier. It's very likely Becky thought that "marks" "scars" referred to marks or scratches on the doors or walls indicating forced entry. I think her response is very appropriate for someone who has interpretted the question to be about the condition of the entry point.

Not that I think this happened, but the idea about the fence would be that someone would jump the fence and then let themselves OUT using the gate (assuming the gate is locked to the outside but unlocks from the inside). They wouldn't have to carry a kicking child back over the fence, they would carry her out through the gate
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 9:07 am

Sto asked:
"Just how many people called 911? I'm getting confused. Were there only two disctinct calls placed to 911? But it sounds like a total of 3 people spoke to 911: Sergio Jr, Sergio (on one call), Becky (on 2nd call) is that right?"

From the transcripts I read last night, Sergio the father first called; Sergio, the son ( a minor) called second and then gave the phone to Becky, the mother. Two phones, two separate calls but the call by son was taken over by Becky, the mother, when she returned home.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 15, 2012 9:10 am

Freckles wrote:Sto asked:
"Just how many people called 911? I'm getting confused. Were there only two disctinct calls placed to 911? But it sounds like a total of 3 people spoke to 911: Sergio Jr, Sergio (on one call), Becky (on 2nd call) is that right?"

From the transcripts I read last night, Sergio the father first called; Sergio, the son ( a minor) called second and then gave the phone to Becky, the mother. Two phones, two separate calls but the call by son was taken over by Becky, the mother, when she returned home.

Thanks Freckles - I've yet to read the transcripts (sort of running around this morning) -- in the call placed by Sergio the dad, does he state that he had not yet looked outside? The assertion was made that he called it an abduction and called 911 before ever looking outside the house -- before I consider that notion, I would like to know if that is speculation or was it stated somewhere in the 911 call?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Justice4all on Tue May 15, 2012 9:18 am

Ann - Tx wrote:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1205/14/ijvm.01.html
CNN.com - Transcripts JVM 5-14-12

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL

Isabel`s Dad Banned from Seeing Sons; Medical Mystery; Week 2 of Jane`s Weight Loss Adventure

Aired May 14, 2012 - 19:00 ET

Bumping. Link has been fixed.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 9:29 am

Tamta and others provided these links.
The first is audio:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/isabel-celis-911-calls-released-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

This is the actual written transcript:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation

Page 2, Line 13-17:
Q. Why do you think she was adubpted (ph) abducted?
A. I have no idea. We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons. I, we looked everywhere in the house and my oldest son noticed her window was wide open and the screen was laying in the backyard. We've looked all around the house my son...

Father states he first went to wake up his daughter and then went to wake his sons.

What is odd is the father did not wake his daughter for if he did he would have seen the open window, missing screen, etc. The oldest son is the one who noticed the open window and screen removed.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 15, 2012 9:46 am

Freckles wrote:Tamta and others provided these links.
The first is audio:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/isabel-celis-911-calls-released-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

This is the actual written transcript:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation

Page 2, Line 13-17:
Q. Why do you think she was adubpted (ph) abducted?
A. I have no idea. We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons. I, we looked everywhere in the house and my oldest son noticed her window was wide open and the screen was laying in the backyard. We've looked all around the house my son...

Father states he first went to wake up his daughter and then went to wake his sons.

What is odd is the father did not wake his daughter for if he did he would have seen the open window, missing screen, etc. The oldest son is the one who noticed the open window and screen removed.

I don't see any sequential order in his statement about waking Isa - He says "we woke up" - that means one of the two boys was already up with him in order to say "we". and "went to get her" follows "we" so it could indicate that one of the other boys was sent to wake her.

Why this concerns me is that in other hinky crimes in the home -- someone else is sent to get the child first -- and that is intentionally by design so that a 3rd party can corroborate the story that the child is missing. If one of the other brothers can claim they were the first to go to Isa's room, then it *appears* as if the circumstances hold truth (that she's missing) -- however, if Sergio had already removed Isa, he wouldn't need to go to her room first because he would already know she wasn't there - he would need someone else to document the evidence as well.

Same goes for Sergio telling the dispatcher that *his son* noticed the window open. Why not simply save time and tell the dispatcher - "the window was open" -- why? because he needed to provide to the dispatcher evidence that his story was corroborated by someone else, that's why.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by justanopinion on Tue May 15, 2012 9:49 am

hmmmmm just re-listened to the 911 calls...Sergio is definitely strange. It does sound methodical/scripted!

Although, (trying to be logical) maybe he is one of those people that panic later... when there is something to be done gets it done first, then breaks down..

but the hinky side says... scripted... this is how we beat the system... you go to work... I call ... you panic..and run home... so if this is the case then the laugh is smug (when he says I told her to get her butt home) because he thinks the plan is working!

logical side says that LE only have 4 working at family connection... so they must not think it likely... hinky side... says they should have been able to eliminate family at this point if not involved!!

OMG brain is at war!! winks
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 10:07 am

Sto-
"He says "we woke up" - "

Two possibilities I see:
When he says "we woke up" he may be referring to the family waking that morning. As in, "We drove to the beach." Obviously, only one person drove but several went.

The second possibility is he DID mean "we" in plural form and Becky had not yet left the house.

Because he used the plural in waking his sons we can not mean he and one of the sons. IF he and a son had woken he would not later say he then woke his sons, plural. He would have to say he woke the other son in singular.

(Dare I try a third possibility? Was his brother or anyone else staying at the home that night?)

BTW, have you figured out the meaning of "is"?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Tue May 15, 2012 10:10 am

Sto-
Haven't yet master the quotes yet.
At this point, I must agree with your conclusion.
Set up.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by justanopinion on Tue May 15, 2012 10:52 am

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/47426268#47426268

Sergio saying the words "kidnapped" and shaking his head no... this is incongruent behaviour. The non verbals are pretty loud...

I can't find it now but one of the interviews Sergio is speaking and Becky is putting her finger up to her mouth in a shhhhh manner... lots more going on here!!

try saying "I really want an ice cream" (or something you really want) and shaking your head no...
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by snowbird on Tue May 15, 2012 10:59 am

nanaof4 wrote:
Tamta wrote:
snowbird wrote:I hope I read the transcript correct, the father states that he fell asleep in front of the TV in the living room and didn't hear a sound. He states she was on the other side of wall, so this would be so different then sleeping on the other side of the house. I know there was talk about them not hearing someone break in because house was large and master bedroom was on the other side of the children's rooms. This case has always been strange to me. I feel so sorry for her brothers.

BBM

Watching a game that had finished by the time he said everyone was settled into bed and he was in front of the TV.


Sergio does act odd and I thought the first press conf it felt like he was over acting. However, I don't know what he is like all the time or in normal circumstances. I wouldn't necessarily expect someone to her noises if they were asleep with the TV on. LE called CPS because of something they learned in an interview. My first thought was that perhaps Sergio is distraught and was becoming angry or maybe said something that caused LE to think he was unstable and a danger to the other children. But that would not necessarily mean he couldn't communicate with them over the phone and reports state it was an agreed separation between CPS and the parents. I tend to agree it could be that he is trying to influence the boys. That would explain the no contact whatsoever agreement.

Although, events and mannerisms by the parents have been odd, we simply don't have enough info to point the finger yet. Somehow, I think that may change soon.
I would expect someone that fell asleep in the living room next to the child to hear noises of someone coming in. The reason is the dogs because if someone was in my yard or attempting to come into my house my dogs would go crazy. Example is my neighbors were fighting at 3am my dogs and I made it to the door at the same time to see what was going on. May be I am a light sleeper, but I know my dogs would wake me up with there barking. I could no way sleep thru there alert that something is wrong. I trust my dogs, Mans best friend Razz
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 11:02 am

Stolat wrote:
Freckles wrote:Tamta and others provided these links.
The first is audio:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/05/isabel-celis-911-calls-released-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

This is the actual written transcript:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/93576718/Redacted-Transcripts-of-911-Audio-Ref-Isabel-Celis-Investigation

Page 2, Line 13-17:
Q. Why do you think she was adubpted (ph) abducted?
A. I have no idea. We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons. I, we looked everywhere in the house and my oldest son noticed her window was wide open and the screen was laying in the backyard. We've looked all around the house my son...

Father states he first went to wake up his daughter and then went to wake his sons.

What is odd is the father did not wake his daughter for if he did he would have seen the open window, missing screen, etc. The oldest son is the one who noticed the open window and screen removed.

I don't see any sequential order in his statement about waking Isa - He says "we woke up" - that means one of the two boys was already up with him in order to say "we". and "went to get her" follows "we" so it could indicate that one of the other boys was sent to wake her.

Why this concerns me is that in other hinky crimes in the home -- someone else is sent to get the child first -- and that is intentionally by design so that a 3rd party can corroborate the story that the child is missing. If one of the other brothers can claim they were the first to go to Isa's room, then it *appears* as if the circumstances hold truth (that she's missing) -- however, if Sergio had already removed Isa, he wouldn't need to go to her room first because he would already know she wasn't there - he would need someone else to document the evidence as well.

Same goes for Sergio telling the dispatcher that *his son* noticed the window open. Why not simply save time and tell the dispatcher - "the window was open" -- why? because he needed to provide to the dispatcher evidence that his story was corroborated by someone else, that's why.

He is a class A schemer.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 15, 2012 11:13 am

Freckles wrote:Sto-
"He says "we woke up" - "

Two possibilities I see:
When he says "we woke up" he may be referring to the family waking that morning. As in, "We drove to the beach." Obviously, only one person drove but several went.

The second possibility is he DID mean "we" in plural form and Becky had not yet left the house.

Because he used the plural in waking his sons we can not mean he and one of the sons. IF he and a son had woken he would not later say he then woke his sons, plural. He would have to say he woke the other son in singular.

(Dare I try a third possibility? Was his brother or anyone else staying at the home that night?)

BTW, have you figured out the meaning of "is"?

I think this is semantics, but here's the sentence again:
We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons

We know he's *not* referring to Becky in "we" because he reportedly woke at or around 8am and Becky was long gone by 7am -- so that possibility is out.

He says I woke up my sons - so sons is plural which means he woke both sons. And I think the first person pronoun indicated he personally woke up his two sons -- and since both boys sleep in same room it's highly unlikely he'd wake only one and not the other

He says "we woke up this morning and went to get her up" -- "went to get her up" is an action belonging to an unspecified group -- it could very well mean that Sergio delegated the task of waking Isa up to his son(s) and therefore still considered himself part of the activity of waking her.

It does not specify that he himself was the one to wake her. And in fact, we see from the 911 call that Sergio points out that his son was the one to notice the window open in her room -- so that establishes that one of the sons was the first to Isa's room -- the first to go wake Isa at the request of Sergio -- not Sergio himself.

But Becky could not be in that equation becauase as we already know -- Becky and Sergio testified that they woke up a two separate times -- Sergio at 8am and Becky at whatever time necessary to leave the house by 7am.

But you have a good point that we still do not know if there was yet another person in the home that evening.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by snowbird on Tue May 15, 2012 11:26 am

justanopinion wrote:http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/47426268#47426268

Sergio saying the words "kidnapped" and shaking his head no... this is incongruent behaviour. The non verbals are pretty loud...

I can't find it now but one of the interviews Sergio is speaking and Becky is putting her finger up to her mouth in a shhhhh manner... lots more going on here!!

try saying "I really want an ice cream" (or something you really want) and shaking your head no...
What I also found intersting is about the polygraph and them saying they could not talk about it. I too think if they would have passed they would have been shouting it out for the world to see, so people would look for their daughter. I am glad they brought up in the reports about the dogs being there when someone would have to come into the yard. I so hope I am wrong but I always thought something happened to her at her home and that it did not include a stranger. Sad
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 11:32 am

Stolat wrote:
Freckles wrote:Sto-
"He says "we woke up" - "

Two possibilities I see:
When he says "we woke up" he may be referring to the family waking that morning. As in, "We drove to the beach." Obviously, only one person drove but several went.

The second possibility is he DID mean "we" in plural form and Becky had not yet left the house.

Because he used the plural in waking his sons we can not mean he and one of the sons. IF he and a son had woken he would not later say he then woke his sons, plural. He would have to say he woke the other son in singular.

(Dare I try a third possibility? Was his brother or anyone else staying at the home that night?)

BTW, have you figured out the meaning of "is"?

I think this is semantics, but here's the sentence again:
We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons

We know he's *not* referring to Becky in "we" because he reportedly woke at or around 8am and Becky was long gone by 7am -- so that possibility is out.

He says I woke up my sons - so sons is plural which means he woke both sons. And I think the first person pronoun indicated he personally woke up his two sons -- and since both boys sleep in same room it's highly unlikely he'd wake only one and not the other

He says "we woke up this morning and went to get her up" -- "went to get her up" is an action belonging to an unspecified group -- it could very well mean that Sergio delegated the task of waking Isa up to his son(s) and therefore still considered himself part of the activity of waking her.

It does not specify that he himself was the one to wake her. And in fact, we see from the 911 call that Sergio points out that his son was the one to notice the window open in her room -- so that establishes that one of the sons was the first to Isa's room -- the first to go wake Isa at the request of Sergio -- not Sergio himself.

But Becky could not be in that equation becauase as we already know -- Becky and Sergio testified that they woke up a two separate times -- Sergio at 8am and Becky at whatever time necessary to leave the house by 7am.

But you have a good point that we still do not know if there was yet another person in the home that evening.

In this call Sergio often switches his use of pronouns from I to We
As a means of reducing his responsibility by sharing culpability.

What's most twisted is that he is doing that primarily in relation to his children,

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Julie on Tue May 15, 2012 11:44 am

Freckles wrote:Sto-
Haven't yet master the quotes yet.
At this point, I must agree with your conclusion.
Set up.

Hi Freckles. To quote someone here, just click the Quote box, to the right of the thread title, of the person you're quoting. Then type your message after the final [/quote] .

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Calypso on Tue May 15, 2012 12:24 pm

Isabel Celis' Brother and Mother Call 911

The missing Tuscon girl's brother and mother frantically ask for help.

06:54 | 05/14/2012

http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/isabel-celis-brother-mother-call-911-16347357?tab=9482931§ion=1206833
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by ishi on Tue May 15, 2012 12:25 pm

I wish Yosimity would find us. She was the one with the LE friend who told her Sergio was a "very bad man". And I wish she could get more details about how he is a very bad man.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 15, 2012 12:34 pm

ishi wrote:I wish Yosimity would find us. She was the one with the LE friend who told her Sergio was a "very bad man". And I wish she could get more details about how he is a very bad man.

I remember that post and if IIRC that comment was made while watching Sergio on TV, and not from prior knowledge of his character or criminal activity, right?

Or am I confusing that with another poster?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by ishi on Tue May 15, 2012 12:44 pm

No it was a comment made to her by a friend who was in LE but he wouldn't tell her anymore than that....just that Sergio was known to LE and he was a bad man.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 15, 2012 12:51 pm

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Freckles wrote:Sto-
"He says "we woke up" - "

Two possibilities I see:
When he says "we woke up" he may be referring to the family waking that morning. As in, "We drove to the beach." Obviously, only one person drove but several went.

The second possibility is he DID mean "we" in plural form and Becky had not yet left the house.

Because he used the plural in waking his sons we can not mean he and one of the sons. IF he and a son had woken he would not later say he then woke his sons, plural. He would have to say he woke the other son in singular.

(Dare I try a third possibility? Was his brother or anyone else staying at the home that night?)

BTW, have you figured out the meaning of "is"?

I think this is semantics, but here's the sentence again:
We woke up this morning and went to get her up, start her baseball game and she's gone. I woke up my, my sons

We know he's *not* referring to Becky in "we" because he reportedly woke at or around 8am and Becky was long gone by 7am -- so that possibility is out.

He says I woke up my sons - so sons is plural which means he woke both sons. And I think the first person pronoun indicated he personally woke up his two sons -- and since both boys sleep in same room it's highly unlikely he'd wake only one and not the other

He says "we woke up this morning and went to get her up" -- "went to get her up" is an action belonging to an unspecified group -- it could very well mean that Sergio delegated the task of waking Isa up to his son(s) and therefore still considered himself part of the activity of waking her.

It does not specify that he himself was the one to wake her. And in fact, we see from the 911 call that Sergio points out that his son was the one to notice the window open in her room -- so that establishes that one of the sons was the first to Isa's room -- the first to go wake Isa at the request of Sergio -- not Sergio himself.

But Becky could not be in that equation becauase as we already know -- Becky and Sergio testified that they woke up a two separate times -- Sergio at 8am and Becky at whatever time necessary to leave the house by 7am.

But you have a good point that we still do not know if there was yet another person in the home that evening.

In this call Sergio often switches his use of pronouns from I to We
As a means of reducing his responsibility by sharing culpability.

What's most twisted is that he is doing that primarily in relation to his children,


I completely agree Tamta - From his words, it seems he is associating himself and dis-associating himself opportunistically to establish an alibi or create a storyline. Within a 911 crisis call, there is no need to go into the details of he said/she said and the specifics of whom found what - they should only need the facts to get the police there as soon as possible and then you can elaborate on those details with the police when they arrive. The fact that Sergio starts so early into the call wasting valuable time by providing details that sound more like an alibi than a plea for help. Becky's call sounds more like a frantic plea for help.
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Stolat

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 15, 2012 2:20 pm

ishi wrote:No it was a comment made to her by a friend who was in LE but he wouldn't tell her anymore than that....just that Sergio was known to LE and he was a bad man.

OK Thanks I couldn't remember who had posted that, but I recall it also.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

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