Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 1:27 pm

Freckles wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Wonder if Sergio has some kind of problem with females?

I mean...there's speculation about Isabel getting a new puppy.

I, personally, didn't like either of these comments he made during the 911 call about Becky:

I told her to get her butt home...ha ha ha
My wife's home and he freaking out (words to that effect, I can't remember it all).

Anyway...it comes across to me as being disrespectful toward Becky.

His words and sentiments definitely relay his perception that he thinks this is a situation that will affect Becky moreso than him. "Get her butt home" as in -- get home and help handle this.

Making a point to say his wife is freaking out says something to me
-- it's says he's NOT freaking out.
Exactly. So. Your child is missing and you remain cool and calm?
I think that would be abnormal. I would be freaking out too!
In fact, I don't even see evidence of the mother going emotional.
I would be frantic. Hysterical. Begging for assistance --- not quietly waiting for the PD to do whatever. awe

This is like watching an over rehearsed school play with a weak plot line.

Makes me wonder what he's capable of.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 1:29 pm

Hinky's Mimi wrote:
justanopinion wrote:
Freckles wrote:Housekeeping:
Sto- When talking with 911mother said she left at 7 AM.
I am going with that. Why the need to change the time at a later date?

Where are we to sleep the two parents, two boys of 14 and 10 yrs, and one 6 yr old girl? A minimum of 3 rooms and a max of 4 would be needed. This is presuming there are no rooms for guests spending long term in the home.

Someone in the family said Isabel had her own "special place" which we took to mean her own bedroom. However, when I look at the floor plans, I can see where 3-4 bedrooms could be carved out. Not saying they were or they would be optimum.

1. The parents bedroom is a given.Upper right side of the floor plan. They have a private bath. A second bath is shown in the hall in front of the parents bath.

2. There is a den in the back of the house near what appears to be covered porch.

3. There is a large room with what appears to be a walk in closet or unidentified bathroom, and there is possibly a hall without the door indicated leading to a small front room.

4. The front left of the house shows a room on the left which I presume could be a formal living room OR adapted into a bedroom.

5. The front right side shows what would be a dining room as it leads into a narrow/open kitchen.

6. The center of the home is comprised by a large living area. While there are no exterior door openings shown, I would imagine there is a door leading out to the porch/slab in the back and butting against the den and the parent's room.

So. Let's play house.
Where would you sleep the three children of 2 genders?


Put a call in to check with PD ER shift changes and parking. Will let the board know.


Sorry... bolded and italics... that is just creepy! Special place usually means a place to hide and be safe... or???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Could "the special place" be the walk in closet that Freckles mentions in her post? If Justin had been sleeping over previously and had displaced Isabel from her room... is the closet big enough to hold a small bed of some sort? Seems Isabel not only slept in her bother's room but also a "special place." This is very disturbing to me. I feel that, if anyone is going to be displaced in a home, it should NOT be the one and only little girl who lives there.

Hey, what's this special place idea about? Where was that said??? I missed that tidbit!!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 1:33 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:I had only been able to find a tiny image of the Celis Home floorplan, so I made a larger one and included a few more details (street names and such). I hope this might be helpful to some of you.

Photobucket
This is nice! And thank you for putting in the door for the front bedroom.
That bugged me like a Chinese finger box.
So the room Isabel was taken from has a bathroom? I speculated if that was a bath or a walk in closet. IIRC, from the outside wall, it appears there are little "frosty" windows in that area like a bathroom often has.

Nice job!

Edited: Could you guess the size of any of the rooms based upon it being @ 3,000 sq ft?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 1:41 pm

Tamta:
In the released 911 calls, the father states the room Isabel was taken from is NOT her normal sleeping room.
It was either in this call or one of the interview, not sure, where it is said Isabel had a "special place" to sleep.

As usual, I don't save back links. However, scroll back a bit to find the 911 transcripts. I really tried to dissect those and share idea.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 1:45 pm

Freckles wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:I had only been able to find a tiny image of the Celis Home floorplan, so I made a larger one and included a few more details (street names and such). I hope this might be helpful to some of you.

Photobucket
This is nice! And thank you for putting in the door for the front bedroom.
That bugged me like a Chinese finger box.
So the room Isabel was taken from has a bathroom? I speculated if that was a bath or a walk in closet. IIRC, from the outside wall, it appears there are little "frosty" windows in that area like a bathroom often has.

Nice job!

Edited: Could you guess the size of any of the rooms based upon it being @ 3,000 sq ft?

Thanks this is great!

I do see from this that there would be no reason for Becky to be on the children's side of the house that am, as the master BR , bath, kitchen and garage are all on the opposite side of the house.

Also, if someone were in the den they would not be seen by her either.

Since we do not have an accurate time for the dogs being out nor further cooboration regsrding the precise nature of their barking, as we may have to allow for the fact thst the neighbor is applying knowledge of the incident onto her recollection of rhe commotion-(she did that with assuming because she did not hear Isabel that she was with someone familiar ) and mind you she did not feel concerned enough to get up and look.

its therefore possible to entertain that BC let them out and proceeded with morning activity and put no other thought towards them before exiting home through garage to leave for work.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Calypso on Thu May 17, 2012 1:56 pm

Soprano1 wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Puzzler wrote:What time was it that the next door neighbor's dog was barking and woke the neighbor woman up? Could the neighbor's dog have been barking due to Becky coming out and leaving for work?

she said 6:30am, i found this comment she posted (before she did any news), she did not repeat it quite that way on any of interviews i saw.

I am her next door neighbor and my bedroom window is directly next to her bedroom window where she was taken from. At 6:30am Saturday morning I was woken up by my dog barking. She only barks at male voices, which I heard when I became more alert. I didn't think much of it because it was so light outside and I didn't hear any screaming or little girl's voice. I was later awoken at 8am by the cops knocking on my door telling me that my 6 year old neighbor was missing. I felt so horrible because if I was a little more cautious, I might have seen the men or saw what they were driving. I wish I could go back in time and do it differently

http://threesonorans.com/2012/04/22/latest-on-isabel-celis-missing-child-case-did-people-nearby-see-who-might-have-done-it-earlier-that-day/
Hmm. I get that peoples' pets each have certain "triggers" that set them off more than others, but I find it interesting (as a poster above me mentions) that this woman is actually positive that her dog would only bark at male voices, and couldn't possibly be barking at having been startled awake by an unexpected noise or at the sound of a commotion (voices or no voices). I think that might be a bit of a dramatization; the neighbor may really want to help, and her heightened sense of urgency could easily cause statements to become somewhat over-dramatized.

My dog has her certain triggers, too, like all dogs, but any dogs I've ever had (ranging from labs to dachshunds, with a wide variety of different personalities) all seem to have one thing in common: no matter what they'll "typically" bark at, they ALL would bark in an agitated way when startled awake by a noise (really, any noise) outside, and they ALL would bark frantically at an unexpected commotion near a window or door of our home. I could be wrong here, but in my experience, that's a characteristic of most dogs.

So, we know that Becky arrived at her workplace at 7ish, and we know from her own statement that she left the home around 6:30 AM. In other words, there's really no way to know if her dog hadn't been startled awake by the sound of Becky leaving.

Ear witnesses might be somewhat reliable, but there's no way to confirm that she did, in fact, hear male voices specifically, and that they were definitely outside Isa's window (since she didn't look; not criticizing here - I probably would have gone back to sleep, too). Of course, it's good that she spoke up about anything she could recall about that morning; certainly, that's important to the investigation. Knowing that Becky was leaving for work at precisely the time the dogs began barking, though, makes me think that the dogs' alert to an early-morning sound was most likely them hearing Becky leaving. Additionally, if Becky were leaving the home at that time, anyone who would have been doing "something" outside Isa's window, wouldn't have been so bold as to talk loud enough for the neighbors to hear when the homeowner is actually outside the home at which they're trespassing.

Not that any of this leans toward any possible valuable conclusion; I'm just letting my brain wander this morning. Would really like to see something happen here. It seems they're getting closer and closer. I mean, LE doesn't just completely ostracize a parent from his family for no reason, and especially not if they see him as a fellow victim - that would be cruel and horribly painful. I know they know far more than they're telling at this point, and that's exactly as it should be, but I'm just so hoping she's found soon.

Good post, Soprano1. (I was the poster above you Very Happy )

The fact that they are looking for this child in that "wash" area isn't good.

Resources and manpower, cost?

AS you said, father removed, voluntary or not, (CPS would have gotten a court order if Sergio didn't cooperate) and the specific route the investigation is going, it's not sounding good for Isabel.

I don't believe Becky had anything to do with Isabel's disappearance.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Calypso on Thu May 17, 2012 2:02 pm

Freckles wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:I had only been able to find a tiny image of the Celis Home floorplan, so I made a larger one and included a few more details (street names and such). I hope this might be helpful to some of you.

Photobucket

Which room was Sergio allegedly in, the Den or the Family Room? I guess it doesn't really matter.

The older brother was very torn and distraught on the 911 call. Perhaps he too is an ear witness?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Thu May 17, 2012 2:09 pm

Freckles wrote:Sto-
Yes. That is the house plan I was looking at.
I can't find the door for that front bedroom .
The boys are so far apart in age and interest, I would think they would be housed separately. It is a small room for one person so why put two in there ? Perhaps,one slept in the guest room?

Keep in mind: Father stated this is not where she usually sleeps.

www.kgun9.com/news/local/149171495.html]
or
http://media.jsonline.com/images/2012-04-26+floorplan.jpg

Well, I don't think they have much choice, they have one master and two bedrooms. They have two different genders of siblings so it stands to reason they set up a "boy's" room and a "girl's" room. I think when Justin moved in, that is likely when she moved to the boys room, and probably like it because little kids always hate sleeping alone. My daughter is 13 and when she visits her cousins she would much prefer sleeping with her 8 yr old cousin than to sleep alone. Kids of differing ages may not play together - but I find they all share something in common - they love to have company when it comes to sleep time.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Hinky's Mimi on Thu May 17, 2012 2:26 pm

Stolat wrote:
Freckles wrote:Sto-
Yes. That is the house plan I was looking at.
I can't find the door for that front bedroom .
The boys are so far apart in age and interest, I would think they would be housed separately. It is a small room for one person so why put two in there ? Perhaps,one slept in the guest room?

Keep in mind: Father stated this is not where she usually sleeps.

www.kgun9.com/news/local/149171495.html]
or
http://media.jsonline.com/images/2012-04-26+floorplan.jpg

Well, I don't think they have much choice, they have one master and two bedrooms. They have two different genders of siblings so it stands to reason they set up a "boy's" room and a "girl's" room. I think when Justin moved in, that is likely when she moved to the boys room, and probably like it because little kids always hate sleeping alone. My daughter is 13 and when she visits her cousins she would much prefer sleeping with her 8 yr old cousin than to sleep alone. Kids of differing ages may not play together - but I find they all share something in common - they love to have company when it comes to sleep time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the father said this is not where she usually sleeps, then he must have been asked by LE why Isabel was in a different room or area of the house that night. Has anyone learned why there was a change in sleeping plans that night? If not, I sure would like to know what the given answer was.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 2:49 pm

Hinky's Mimi wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Freckles wrote:Sto-
Yes. That is the house plan I was looking at.
I can't find the door for that front bedroom .
The boys are so far apart in age and interest, I would think they would be housed separately. It is a small room for one person so why put two in there ? Perhaps,one slept in the guest room?

Keep in mind: Father stated this is not where she usually sleeps.

www.kgun9.com/news/local/149171495.html]
or
http://media.jsonline.com/images/2012-04-26+floorplan.jpg

Well, I don't think they have much choice, they have one master and two bedrooms. They have two different genders of siblings so it stands to reason they set up a "boy's" room and a "girl's" room. I think when Justin moved in, that is likely when she moved to the boys room, and probably like it because little kids always hate sleeping alone. My daughter is 13 and when she visits her cousins she would much prefer sleeping with her 8 yr old cousin than to sleep alone. Kids of differing ages may not play together - but I find they all share something in common - they love to have company when it comes to sleep time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If the father said this is not where she usually sleeps, then he must have been asked by LE why Isabel was in a different room or area of the house that night. Has anyone learned why there was a change in sleeping plans that night? If not, I sure would like to know what the given answer was.

We do not know.
We have been told that the family returned home around 1030pm from Freedom Park
And
We only know that immediate family was in the house that night, by BC.

We do not know who put isa to bed
Who else was in the house
Why she did not sleep with her brothers that night
If anyone else stayed the night
Who exactly was the last person to see Isa
Who if anyone else was in the home at 800am besides father and brothers.

Answers to all of those would perhaps add weight to one investigatory premise over another and quickly lead to inferences or conclusions about culpability or knowing.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by ishi on Thu May 17, 2012 3:02 pm

The tax assessor details for their house states 1.5 stories and 7 rooms. So do they have a loft and are bathrooms not counted. Rather confusing.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/frm_Parcel.aspx?parcel=128030990&taxyear=2013

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 3:03 pm

JMO. Because of the age of the older child, a teen, and acknowledging the need for more space/privacy, I would think he would have his own room. Or perhaps the den was made into a room for one of the children?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 3:07 pm

ishi wrote:The tax assessor details for their house states 1.5 stories and 7 rooms. So do they have a loft and are bathrooms not counted. Rather confusing.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/frm_Parcel.aspx?parcel=128030990&taxyear=2013

States there are 7 bathroom fixtures as well.
Could not find where it says how many bedrooms there are.


Last edited by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Edited for spelling erros, as usual.)
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by justanopinion on Thu May 17, 2012 3:14 pm

Freckles wrote:
ishi wrote:The tax assessor details for their house states 1.5 stories and 7 rooms. So do they have a loft and are bathrooms not counted. Rather confusing.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/frm_Parcel.aspx?parcel=128030990&taxyear=2013

States there are 7 bathroom fixtures as well.
Could not find where it ways how many bedrooms there are.


It also says garage- none???? Seems like this assessment has some misinformation maybe?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 3:19 pm

justanopinion wrote:
Freckles wrote:
ishi wrote:The tax assessor details for their house states 1.5 stories and 7 rooms. So do they have a loft and are bathrooms not counted. Rather confusing.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/frm_Parcel.aspx?parcel=128030990&taxyear=2013

States there are 7 bathroom fixtures as well.
Could not find where it ways how many bedrooms there are.


It also says garage- none???? Seems like this assessment has some misinformation
maybe?

Or the Celis' Built it since the property's last assessment.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 3:27 pm

ishi wrote:The tax assessor details for their house states 1.5 stories and 7 rooms. So do they have a loft and are bathrooms not counted. Rather confusing.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/frm_Parcel.aspx?parcel=128030990&taxyear=2013

Basement maybe or partial attic.
Bath fixtures listed as 7.

Assessment date 2005, prior to their purchase.
Assessors do not always enter homes and will sometimes do permit searches instead to check for additions and changes that would affect value.


Last edited by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 3:29 pm

It does not appear to be split level unless the garage is dropped?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by ishi on Thu May 17, 2012 3:41 pm

Trulia.com states:

Public Records for 5602 E 12th StOfficial property, sales, and tax information from county (public) records as of 10/2010:
Single Family Residential
2 Bathrooms
3,802 sqft
Built In 2005
Stories: 2 story
A/C: Refrigeration
Heating: Forced air unit
Exterior Walls: Wood
Roof: Tile
7 Rooms
Subdivision: LOMA VERDE
County: Pima
Tax Rate Code Area: 0150
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 17, 2012 3:56 pm

FWIW, Realtor.com (and a couple other sites I found when I looked into this when the investigation was new) list the house as 2350 square feet, which is a much more believable size based on the look and layout.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5602-E-12th-St_Tucson_AZ_85711_M21045-52912?source=web

Also, everywhere I could find, it says this house was BUILT in 2005. Did they possibly tear down an older home at this address, to build this one? If so, could explain the discrepancies.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 17, 2012 4:08 pm

Forgive me if this is old info. I am completely unable to keep up with all the threads and discussion on this case. This is simply an observation I made while looking at Google Street View earlier today. I don't know how I didn't see or notice it before, but I am pretty sure I see a big, double-wide GATE in the wood section at the back corner of the fence surrounding the Celis property, nearest the Master Bedroom. The larger the image, the more obvious it seems, imnsho.

Photobucket

Link to it on Google, as well: http://g.co/maps/uf5rm
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 4:17 pm

Sale Date: 1/2003 VACANT LAND $76, 500
Sale Date: 2/2006 SINGLE FAMILY $435,000

More info toward bottom regarding history of property and warranty deeds.

http://www.asr.pima.gov/links/frm_Parcel.aspx?parcel=128030990&taxyear=2013


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Thu May 17, 2012 4:20 pm

I'm still thinking about Sergio's being disrespectful towards Becky:

1. I called her and told her to get her butt home - ha ha ha
2. Becky just walked in the door and she's freaking out.

He minimized and demeaned Becky - a bad attitude towards Becky at any time, let alone on the morning that her daughter's gone missing.

I'm now wondering if whatever happened to Isabel has something to do with his feelings toward Becky?

Maybe anger toward Becky, so he did something to Isabel...."I'll show you attitude" or took his anger with Becky out on Isabel.

He definately was expressing his attitude towards Becky that morning - so I'm wondering if that's a connection. He was showing attitude of all places, "during" the 911 call...almost "macho". I told her to get her butt home! Ha ha ha (like and unexpressed thought was - I told her by golly!)
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Thu May 17, 2012 4:21 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:FWIW, Realtor.com (and a couple other sites I found when I looked into this when the investigation was new) list the house as 2350 square feet, which is a much more believable size based on the look and layout.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5602-E-12th-St_Tucson_AZ_85711_M21045-52912?source=web

Also, everywhere I could find, it says this house was BUILT in 2005. Did they possibly tear down an older home at this address, to build this one? If so, could explain the discrepancies.

That's what I was thinking -- from the looks of it on website and on TV - that house does NOT look to be nearly 4,000 total. I thought 3800sf was a ridiculous estimate based on the sheer size of the home. UNLESS they hae a full-sized basement that encompasses the footprint of the home and they are including the sf in the basement.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Stolat on Thu May 17, 2012 4:25 pm

Puzzler wrote:I'm still thinking about Sergio's being disrespectful towards Becky:

1. I called her and told her to get her butt home - ha ha ha
2. Becky just walked in the door and she's freaking out.

He minimized and demeaned Becky - a bad attitude towards Becky at any time, let alone on the morning that her daughter's gone missing.

I'm now wondering if whatever happened to Isabel has something to do with his feelings toward Becky?

Maybe anger toward Becky, so he did something to Isabel...."I'll show you attitude" or took his anger with Becky out on Isabel.

He definately was expressing his attitude towards Becky that morning - so I'm wondering if that's a connection. He was showing attitude of all places, "during" the 911 call...almost "macho". I told her to get her butt home! Ha ha ha (like and unexpressed thought was - I told her by golly!)

I'd say "Macho" is a bit much -- especially when he talks and composes himself like someone who sounds like they walked off the set of "Will & Grace". I agree he is minimalizing and detaching from Becky's reactions. I agree it's disrespectful of both Becky and Isa. I'm having trouble thinking this is a typical wife-beater kind of guy and not more of a guy who isn't really that interested in women and has more of a "catty" / "bitchy" tone towards women rather than a "yo baby, go haul your ass in here and grab me a brew" disrespect. Perhaps he's more of a friend to Becky and she serves the purpose of baby mamma to his kids.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 4:35 pm

Puzzler wrote:I'm still thinking about Sergio's being disrespectful towards Becky:

1. I called her and told her to get her butt home - ha ha ha
2. Becky just walked in the door and she's freaking out.

He minimized and demeaned Becky - a bad attitude towards Becky at any time, let alone on the morning that her daughter's gone missing.

I'm now wondering if whatever happened to Isabel has something to do with his feelings toward Becky?

Maybe anger toward Becky, so he did something to Isabel...."I'll show you attitude" or took his anger with Becky out on Isabel.

He definately was expressing his attitude towards Becky that morning - so I'm wondering if that's a connection. He was showing attitude of all places, "during" the 911 call...almost "macho". I told her to get her butt home! Ha ha ha (like and unexpressed thought was - I told her by golly!)

it was like he was scolding her...like a teenager out past curfew. as if a mom needs to be told to "hurry up" when hearing her daughter is missing. seemed to me everyone was in a panicked rush to find Isa except Sergio...someone on JVM or NG (can't remember) described it perfectly...said it sounded like Sergio was ordering a pizza rather than reporting his daughter missing.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 4:45 pm

TPD update on Celis case to be shown live at 2 p.m.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/

The Tucson Police Department's update on the search for a missing Tucson girl will be shown live today at 2 p.m. on KOLD News 13 and streamed live on Tucson News Now.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 17, 2012 4:50 pm

Stolat wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:FWIW, Realtor.com (and a couple other sites I found when I looked into this when the investigation was new) list the house as 2350 square feet, which is a much more believable size based on the look and layout.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5602-E-12th-St_Tucson_AZ_85711_M21045-52912?source=web

Also, everywhere I could find, it says this house was BUILT in 2005. Did they possibly tear down an older home at this address, to build this one? If so, could explain the discrepancies.

That's what I was thinking -- from the looks of it on website and on TV - that house does NOT look to be nearly 4,000 total. I thought 3800sf was a ridiculous estimate based on the sheer size of the home. UNLESS they hae a full-sized basement that encompasses the footprint of the home and they are including the sf in the basement.


No basements in AZ
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 4:56 pm

Puzzler wrote:I'm still thinking about Sergio's being disrespectful towards Becky:

1. I called her and told her to get her butt home - ha ha ha
2. Becky just walked in the door and she's freaking out.

He minimized and demeaned Becky - a bad attitude towards Becky at any time, let alone on the morning that her daughter's gone missing.

I'm now wondering if whatever happened to Isabel has something to do with his feelings toward Becky?

Maybe anger toward Becky, so he did something to Isabel...."I'll show you attitude" or took his anger with Becky out on Isabel.

He definately was expressing his attitude towards Becky that morning - so I'm wondering if that's a connection. He was showing attitude of all places, "during" the 911 call...almost "macho". I told her to get her butt home! Ha ha ha (like and unexpressed thought was - I told her by golly!)

Or he is just plain ol' arrogant, dominant, and controlling
which however would not discount anything you observed or concluded.

He is doing a super job at working towards Creep of the Year award.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 4:56 pm

Honeysage wrote:TPD update on Celis case to be shown live at 2 p.m.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/

The Tucson Police Department's update on the search for a missing Tucson girl will be shown live today at 2 p.m. on KOLD News 13 and streamed live on Tucson News Now.

I can watch it!
Miracle!!!

Thx. Very Happy
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 17, 2012 5:02 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-tucson-girl-fbi-steps-involvement-isabel-celis-16208983
Missing Ariz. Girl: FBI Steps Up
____________________________

Found it!! this video if full of juicy tidbits:

-@.50 Emily Collins: employee who saw Isa's brother in morning of disappearance
-@1:35 "sources say" Isa often shared bed with siblings
-@1:50 VP of TMC: "she was here at work very early that morning" re: Becky

Thank you! I have been searching for the part from the boss
Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 17, 2012 5:19 pm

Stolat wrote:Hmmm... thinking about this CPS visit in Dec and now Isa missing...

Joe Vega, Sergio's friend says Sergio doesn't ever swear and is devoutly religious. Others have mentioned to the press how devoutly religious he is.

I'm just wondering just how much of a religious fanatic he might be (?) I'm wondering if there is abuse going on based on some fanatical warped religious views.

Just because people act religious and volunteer does not mean they can't be an abuser. My ex father in law severly anused bid children their whole life while being a deacon at church, sitting up with the sick, and helping anyone in need. I was shocked after my wedding and saw the real family dynamics. Just saying. We never know what goes on behind closed doors.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 17, 2012 5:21 pm

That should be abused his children.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 5:23 pm

May 17, 2012 TPD Press Conference

-abduction means "somebody took her"...not necessarily "stranger"
-investigation still internal (family and relations) and external (stranger)
-LE has little info re: CPS, questions should be directed to them
-previous contact by CPS with family confirmed but no LE involvement at that past time
-any items of "evdience" located will not be confirmed or discussed
-operate under 'she is alive'
-recent CPS involvement was voluntary by family and CPS
-have not come across anything that she is not alive
-not aware of specific surveillance on family (but would not be able to say if there was anyway)
-calls to residence in past by LE but can't say why, when or if it was family (yet, they are only ones who ever lived there?) this was really confusing to me said they don't always make contact when checking on residence
-nowhere near 'cold case'
-one tip may lead to others so while tip# is 1000, it can actuallly be much more
-bones found today at DeAnza Drive-In currently a construction site(possible human) need excavation, appear to have been there long time...no indication it is Isabel at all
-all possibilities are still open for suspicion, nobody has been eliminated as suspect
-cannot release results about any forensic testing
-parents' interaction with media is still up to them,been very encouraed by TPD to do so to keep her name and face in media
-next briefing next Monday at 2:00

missed some of the beginning, but she was just clarifying the word "abduction"...only means Isa did not walk away on her own
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 5:27 pm

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18504085/police-cps-had-previous-contact-with-celis-family
Police: CPS had previous contact with Celis family

Tucson Police Sgt. Maria Hawke said "previous contact has occurred," but TPD was not involved so it would be inappropriate to comment further.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 5:32 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18504085/police-cps-had-previous-contact-with-celis-family
Police: CPS had previous contact with Celis family

Tucson Police Sgt. Maria Hawke said "previous contact has occurred," but TPD was not involved so it would be inappropriate to comment further.

Thanks HOneysage,

By the way when was the family's last media interview?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 5:36 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18504085/police-cps-had-previous-contact-with-celis-family
Police: CPS had previous contact with Celis family

Tucson Police Sgt. Maria Hawke said "previous contact has occurred," but TPD was not involved so it would be inappropriate to comment further.

Thanks HOneysage,

By the way when was the family's last media interview?

last official interview with local media-2 weeks ago...short little impromptu interview with Becky on Mother's Day
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 5:41 pm

Snippets of 911:
Mother states she went to work at 7.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/14/911-tapes-released-isabel-celis-case
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18504085/police-cps-had-previous-contact-with-celis-family
Police: CPS had previous contact with Celis family

Tucson Police Sgt. Maria Hawke said "previous contact has occurred," but TPD was not involved so it would be inappropriate to comment further.

Thanks HOneysage,

By the way when was the family's last media interview?

last official interview with local media-2 weeks ago...short little impromptu interview with Becky on Mother's Day

Urgency.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by CA Lady on Thu May 17, 2012 5:50 pm

Freckles wrote:Snippets of 911:
Mother states she went to work at 7.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/05/14/911-tapes-released-isabel-celis-case

"Went to work at 7" means to me she was at work and signed in to start at 7. Therefore she had to have left home at least 15 minutes prior. It sounded like something I would say.


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 5:56 pm

Okay smart people,

Are there really NO forensics in this case right now?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 5:57 pm

nanaof4 wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-tucson-girl-fbi-steps-involvement-isabel-celis-16208983
Missing Ariz. Girl: FBI Steps Up
____________________________

Found it!! this video if full of juicy tidbits:

-@.50 Emily Collins: employee who saw Isa's brother in morning of disappearance
-@1:35 "sources say" Isa often shared bed with siblings
-@1:50 VP of TMC: "she was here at work very early that morning" re: Becky

Thank you! I have been searching for the part from the boss
Very Happy Very Happy

funny enough...when i was searching for it i kept coming up with my own post from Hinky, i changed my search parameters a bit and was finally able to read enough to get the name of the news source and video code...i'm sleuthing myself to find this stuff roflao
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Thu May 17, 2012 6:22 pm

Regarding work schedules at hospital.
ALL the nurses work 7-7 4 days a week.
Specialty areas may have different hours.
Receptionists work 8-5 with one hour for lunch.
Nurses assistants work same 7-7 shifts.
Employees must report 15 minutes before shift for briefings.

(My cousins' niece is currently employed there. Does not believe Becky was RN or assistant. She will check.)

Parking is done near the work stations.


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 17, 2012 6:30 pm

Freckles wrote:Regarding work schedules at hospital.
ALL the nurses work 7-7 4 days a week.
Specialty areas may have different hours.
Receptionists work 8-5 with one hour for lunch.
Nurses assistants work same 7-7 shifts.
Employees must report 15 minutes before shift for briefings.

(My cousins' niece is currently employed there. Does not believe Becky was RN or assistant. She will check.)

Parking is done near the work stations.



Thank you for all Freckles. Rebecca does hold a valid RN License in AZ. (providing this is the right Rebecca)

https://www.azbn.gov/OnlineVerificationDetails.aspx?id=168635&certid=201338
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 6:37 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:
Freckles wrote:Regarding work schedules at hospital.
ALL the nurses work 7-7 4 days a week.
Specialty areas may have different hours.
Receptionists work 8-5 with one hour for lunch.
Nurses assistants work same 7-7 shifts.
Employees must report 15 minutes before shift for briefings.

(My cousins' niece is currently employed there. Does not believe Becky was RN or assistant. She will check.)

Parking is done near the work stations.



Thank you for all Freckles. Rebecca does hold a valid RN License in AZ. (providing this is the right Rebecca)

https://www.azbn.gov/OnlineVerificationDetails.aspx?id=168635&certid=201338

Ok so does Ped ED have different shift times or did she have to be at work at 7 and left at 630, and made a mistake in the 911 call, as in she had to be to work at 7?

What's the reason for all of this discrepancy regarding her leave time work arrival time?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 17, 2012 6:45 pm

Tamta wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:
Freckles wrote:Regarding work schedules at hospital.
ALL the nurses work 7-7 4 days a week.
Specialty areas may have different hours.
Receptionists work 8-5 with one hour for lunch.
Nurses assistants work same 7-7 shifts.
Employees must report 15 minutes before shift for briefings.

(My cousins' niece is currently employed there. Does not believe Becky was RN or assistant. She will check.)

Parking is done near the work stations.



Thank you for all Freckles. Rebecca does hold a valid RN License in AZ. (providing this is the right Rebecca)

https://www.azbn.gov/OnlineVerificationDetails.aspx?id=168635&certid=201338

Ok so does Ped ED have different shift times or did she have to be at work at 7 and left at 630, and made a mistake in the 911 call, as in she had to be to work at 7?

What's the reason for all of this discrepancy regarding her leave time work arrival time?

Tamta, IMO, this is all semantics. I would frequently say, when asked, that I went to work at 7pm. In reality, I left the house at 6:15pm to arrive at work and be ready for report at 6:45pm.
If someone asked me what I worked it was 7p-7a....when it was actually 6:15pm to 7:30 or 7:45am.

I think that Becky has said multiple things, depending on her perception of the question.Someone needs to say very specifically, "What time did you walk out your door?", "What time did you arrive at work?", "Did you have the chance to clock in?" I would be very interested to see her timecard for that day. That would tell us what time she actually arrived there. That is assuming that she had time to clock in.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Guest on Thu May 17, 2012 6:51 pm

Just catching up with the comments. Does anyone know why CPS visited the family before?

I wish Becky would make TV appearances,without Sergio, it's important that she keep Isa in the news. I guess she would have to negotiate that there would be no questions as news reporter's would have so many questions about Sergio.

This is frustrating, this case seems to turning into a cold case, somehow the focus has to be re-directed back to Isa. The family dynamics play a part imo into the person that possibly took Isa, it's hard to understand.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 6:52 pm

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/tucson-police-give-few-new-details-in-search-for-isabel/article_22dbd07c-a068-11e1-bd01-001a4bcf887a.html

Tucson police give few new details in search for Isabel

Hawke also did not answer a question from a reporter about anonymous and unconfirmed reports that investigators found a message apparently written by Isabel on her closet wall.

Hawke repeated that the police would not discuss evidence in the case, and that she was unaware of such a discovery.
_____________________________________________

i totally missed that part of the presser...so hard to hear reporter's questions...i'm guessing this rumor is akin to the urine found on Sierra Lamar's belongings.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 6:53 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:
Freckles wrote:Regarding work schedules at hospital.
ALL the nurses work 7-7 4 days a week.
Specialty areas may have different hours.
Receptionists work 8-5 with one hour for lunch.
Nurses assistants work same 7-7 shifts.
Employees must report 15 minutes before shift for briefings.

(My cousins' niece is currently employed there. Does not believe Becky was RN or assistant. She will check.)

Parking is done near the work stations.



Thank you for all Freckles. Rebecca does hold a valid RN License in AZ. (providing this is the right Rebecca)

https://www.azbn.gov/OnlineVerificationDetails.aspx?id=168635&certid=201338

Ok so does Ped ED have different shift times or did she have to be at work at 7 and left at 630, and made a mistake in the 911 call, as in she had to be to work at 7?

What's the reason for all of this discrepancy regarding her leave time work arrival time?

Tamta, IMO, this is all semantics. I would frequently say, when asked, that I went to work at 7pm. In reality, I left the house at 6:15pm to arrive at work and be ready for report at 6:45pm.
If someone asked me what I worked it was 7p-7a....when it was actually 6:15pm to 7:30 or 7:45am.

I think that Becky has said multiple things, depending on her perception of the question.Someone needs to say very specifically, "What time did you walk out your door?", "What time did you arrive at work?", "Did you have the chance to clock in?" I would be very interested to see her timecard for that day. That would tell us what time she actually arrived there. That is assuming that she had time to clock in.

ITA regarding semantics and her changing her answers in response to the question :

If she needs to be closer or farther away from the home .

I think she was supposed to work at 7.
What ER nurse starts at 8?

Was it that she left work at 730 to return home?

LE however just seems to be happy to let the inconsistencies stand
Which seems to underscore an unwillingness to publicly address the morning timeline.

Sensitive time it is ...
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Thu May 17, 2012 6:53 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/tucson-police-give-few-new-details-in-search-for-isabel/article_22dbd07c-a068-11e1-bd01-001a4bcf887a.html

Tucson police give few new details in search for Isabel

Hawke also did not answer a question from a reporter about anonymous and unconfirmed reports that investigators found a message apparently written by Isabel on her closet wall.

Hawke repeated that the police would not discuss evidence in the case, and that she was unaware of such a discovery.
_____________________________________________

i totally missed that part of the presser...so hard to hear reporter's questions...i'm guessing this rumor is akin to the urine found on Sierra Lamar's belongings.

I did not catch that either...
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 17, 2012 6:54 pm

art tart wrote:Just catching up with the comments. Does anyone know why CPS visited the family before?

I wish Becky would make TV appearances,without Sergio, it's important that she keep Isa in the news. I guess she would have to negotiate that there would be no questions as news reporter's would have so many questions about Sergio.

This is frustrating, this case seems to turning into a cold case, somehow the focus has to be re-directed back to Isa. The family dynamics play a part imo into the person that possibly took Isa, it's hard to understand.

during the presser Sgt Hawke said LE was not involved with previous CPS involvement so they do not know what prompted the visit.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

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