Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Sat May 26, 2012 12:52 am

Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 12:53 am

Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Sat May 26, 2012 1:01 am

Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:02 am

Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Sat May 26, 2012 1:10 am

Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????

IDK - Florida has the Sunshine Law - and the public gets to see "most" of those documents "after" they've gone to the defense.

In this case there is no "defense"...no arrest...notta.

I know the press can usually go to court and ask for release of 911 calls....we got that the other day and I assumed that's what happened - press went to court and the judge ruled to release the 911 call.

But I don't have any ideas on why all these documents have been released - especially with no one having been charged.

Anyone else know the answer?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:22 am

Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????

IDK - Florida has the Sunshine Law - and the public gets to see "most" of those documents "after" they've gone to the defense.

In this case there is no "defense"...no arrest...notta.

I know the press can usually go to court and ask for release of 911 calls....we got that the other day and I assumed that's what happened - press went to court and the judge ruled to release the 911 call.

But I don't have any ideas on why all these documents have been released - especially with no one having been charged.

Anyone else know the answer?

Well the court ordered ban on their suppression was just lifted.
But I do not know if this is unique to AZ investigations or it is supposed to mean something else.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat May 26, 2012 1:24 am

Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????

IDK - Florida has the Sunshine Law - and the public gets to see "most" of those documents "after" they've gone to the defense.

In this case there is no "defense"...no arrest...notta.

I know the press can usually go to court and ask for release of 911 calls....we got that the other day and I assumed that's what happened - press went to court and the judge ruled to release the 911 call.

But I don't have any ideas on why all these documents have been released - especially with no one having been charged.

Anyone else know the answer?

Well the court ordered ban on their suppression was just lifted.
But I do not know if this is unique to AZ investigations or it is supposed to mean something else.

Was the order lifted because of a FOIA request?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:31 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????

IDK - Florida has the Sunshine Law - and the public gets to see "most" of those documents "after" they've gone to the defense.

In this case there is no "defense"...no arrest...notta.

I know the press can usually go to court and ask for release of 911 calls....we got that the other day and I assumed that's what happened - press went to court and the judge ruled to release the 911 call.

But I don't have any ideas on why all these documents have been released - especially with no one having been charged.

Anyone else know the answer?

Well the court ordered ban on their suppression was just lifted.
But I do not know if this is unique to AZ investigations or it is supposed to mean something else.

Was the order lifted because of a FOIA request?

No, I believe the judge's order just expired, but IIRC there may be an extension on other evidence collected. This was not a full release.

5-9 pages back or so I posted a link to an article referencing the extension for suppression.

I will start to look for it.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:57 am


Reporter, law school graduate gives her take on Celis reports


Police have not handed over everything in the case of missing Isabel Celis, and some parts of what they did have been redacted. But even among what they have given could be some parts that will be crucial in court.

"Honestly at this point, I feel like the 550 pages of documents from Tucson Police bring up more questions than they answer at this point because we have no suspect name, we have no charges filed, and, at this point, it's anybody's guess," said recent ASU Law graduate and Phoenix television reporter Christine LaCroix. "

"...it's just too early to tell if it's going to have a dramatic impact on the case," LaCroix said."


http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/ms/p/a3/86/view.m?id=124279&storyId=18629925&news=Top%20Stories&news2=Main
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 2:03 am

Isabel Celis Investigators Disclose Blood Find, Familial Suspicions

At least two other pieces of evidence revealed for the first time Thursday point to possible familial issues in the little girl's disappearance. One document said, "A guy who was staying with the family owed someone a lot of money and that's why she was taken," Good Morning America reported. Earlier reports said Isabel's cousin Justin Mastromarino lived with the Celis family for part of 2011.


http://news.yahoo.com/isabel-celis-investigators-disclose-blood-familial-suspicions-230800959.html
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat May 26, 2012 2:03 am

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????

IDK - Florida has the Sunshine Law - and the public gets to see "most" of those documents "after" they've gone to the defense.

In this case there is no "defense"...no arrest...notta.

I know the press can usually go to court and ask for release of 911 calls....we got that the other day and I assumed that's what happened - press went to court and the judge ruled to release the 911 call.

But I don't have any ideas on why all these documents have been released - especially with no one having been charged.

Anyone else know the answer?

Well the court ordered ban on their suppression was just lifted.
But I do not know if this is unique to AZ investigations or it is supposed to mean something else.

Was the order lifted because of a FOIA request?

No, I believe the judge's order just expired, but IIRC there may be an extension on other evidence collected. This was not a full release.

5-9 pages back or so I posted a link to an article referencing the extension for suppression.

I will start to look for it.

Thank you, Tamta.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by FystyAngel on Sat May 26, 2012 4:46 am

I noticed something VERY curious to me.


http://www.wdam.com/link/563529/pdf-celis-3-details-on-air-search-boot-prints-found-at-home

On page 41 (for example) it states that the FBI Classification is "5603/Suspicious Activity/Other", as well as most all other pages that are connected with the actual case. That page is dated 04/22/2012. All pages that I have seen so far, are dated all the way to 04/27/2012.

Now...scroll down to PAGE 46...It stated that the FBI Classification is ... "5104/Lost/Juvenile" This page is dated 04/30/2012. SO....WHEN did this case change classifications & why?

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by snowbird on Sat May 26, 2012 8:30 am

From what I have seen so far, it would be very hard to believe someone outside this family took Isabella.
The blood in her room - Someone would of had to come thru the window and hurt Isabel in her room. Yet, yet no one heard her being attack.
Then the maybe Blood on the shower curtain - Then they would have to get shower curtain wrap a bleeding child into it and go thru the window without getting blood on the window. Even if she was wrapped the person would have to touch the bleeding child. I would think he had blood on him/her.
After they are out the window then they go to the car that has not been used, unwrap her and place the shower curtain and a hat into the car.
That is a lot of time for a stranger abduction to be at a house with barking dogs.
No wonder the police have not be able to clear the parents as suspects. IMO
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Justice4all on Sat May 26, 2012 9:19 am

Fysty, I believe each officer at the scene filed a report and it was up to each officer how to classify the case on their report. Another classification from officers responding to the scene was 2606/Other Offenses/Kidnapping, so there were three different classifications based on how different officers chose to classify it. The approval dates on the reports varied, but most the reports were from officers arriving at the scene on 4/21 or taking over at the Command Post on 4/22.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 11:27 am

This statement does not sound believable to me. This is possible blood evidence from a missing child:
BBM

The vinyl shower curtain has not been tested to establish what the dark stains are at this time, as the police stated they wanted to keep it as close to its original condition and allow crime-lab personnel to screen it, if it becomes necessary, reports AZ Family news.



http://www.examiner.com/article/isabel-celis-police-reveal-possible-blood-stains-and-footprints-found

http://www.azfamily.com/news/isabel-celis/Police-documents-reveal-evidence-seized-in-missing-Tucson-girl-case-154114835.html
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 12:17 pm

Has anyone else been able to find reference to a locked or unlocked window in Isabel's room?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 12:30 pm

Tamta wrote:Has anyone else been able to find reference to a locked or unlocked window in Isabel's room?

no...i don't remember reading that. on page 44 here there are screenshots of the window and i don't even see a latch for locking it. my windows slide sideways and you can see the lock from the outside very easily. anyone know how these type of windows do lock?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by ishi on Sat May 26, 2012 12:38 pm

Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 12:45 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:Has anyone else been able to find reference to a locked or unlocked window in Isabel's room?

no...i don't remember reading that. on page 44 here there are screenshots of the window and i don't even see a latch for locking it. my windows slide sideways and you can see the lock from the outside very easily. anyone know how these type of windows do lock?

I have an old craftsman but there was one add on window from the 80's that 'locks' automatically as long as the window is closed and engaged.

When we had our security system installed they said it was the easiest window to break into, the screen ges removed first then they would remove the sliding window panel to enter.

Ours slides vertically not horizontally like Isa's, but it seems like similar quality and type of window.

I will show a photo to my contractor neighbor this weekend and see what he says.

I'm surprised to not have seen reference to the lock on the window yet.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 12:46 pm

ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.

That's very likely.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 12:47 pm

ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by ishi on Sat May 26, 2012 1:02 pm

The window latch does not show on mine either when they are closed and locked. It's hard to explain but they are small and very unobtrusive. If I knew how to attach a picture I would show you.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:06 pm

Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

Where is the interior door accessing the garage?
The front room?


The garage I believe was an edition completed by them.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 1:09 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

Where is the interior door accessing the garage?
The front room?

The garage I believe was an edition completed by them.
[img][/img]
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:09 pm

Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

I don't think anyone came in through that window but I am not sure about out.
It's easy to access back alley or side street through gate in back fence.

I don't know about the red car yet.
Leaving evidence there just seems so obviously stupid but people can be stupid.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:11 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

Where is the interior door accessing the garage?
The front room?

The garage I believe was an edition completed by them.
[img][/img]

Ok so the access is adjacent to the Master Bath or a small corridor adjacent to bath or kitchen.

Wait- what does the label on that room say??? By the garage interior access?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 1:23 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

Where is the interior door accessing the garage?
The front room?

The garage I believe was an edition completed by them.
[img][/img]

Ok so the access is adjacent to the Master Bath or a small corridor adjacent to bath or kitchen.

Wait- what does the label on that room say??? By the garage interior access?

bathroom...i had to zoom in.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 1:26 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

I don't think anyone came in through that window but I am not sure about out.
It's easy to access back alley or side street through gate in back fence.

I don't know about the red car yet.
Leaving evidence there just seems so obviously stupid but people can be stupid.

wish we had a view of inside of that gate...those types of gates are usually only able to be unlocked from the inside...there is a pin that is dropped into the ground to secure it. we have one but on a smaller scale. if it had been opened you would be able to see marks on the ground from bottom of fence scraping, though it would not have to be opened all the way. unless someone just passed her over the top to someone else.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:32 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

I don't think anyone came in through that window but I am not sure about out.
It's easy to access back alley or side street through gate in back fence.

I don't know about the red car yet.
Leaving evidence there just seems so obviously stupid but people can be stupid.

wish we had a view of inside of that gate...those types of gates are usually only able to be unlocked from the inside...there is a pin that is dropped into the ground to secure it. we have one but on a smaller scale. if it had been opened you would be able to see marks on the ground from bottom of fence scraping, though it would not have to be opened all the way. unless someone just passed her over the top to someone else.

Ours opens from inside and we have a rope going over the top to the outside to open latch from out side of fence.

Good point about scrapes.

I wonder if they weren't there or redacted.

Do we have photos of that area in these PDFs.
I haven't read all if them yet.

Were there foot prints around red car?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 1:37 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

I don't think anyone came in through that window but I am not sure about out.
It's easy to access back alley or side street through gate in back fence.

I don't know about the red car yet.
Leaving evidence there just seems so obviously stupid but people can be stupid.

wish we had a view of inside of that gate...those types of gates are usually only able to be unlocked from the inside...there is a pin that is dropped into the ground to secure it. we have one but on a smaller scale. if it had been opened you would be able to see marks on the ground from bottom of fence scraping, though it would not have to be opened all the way. unless someone just passed her over the top to someone else.

Ours opens from inside and we have a rope going over the top to the outside to open latch from out side of fence.

Good point about scrapes.

I wonder if they weren't there or redacted.

Do we have photos of that area in these PDFs.
I haven't read all if them yet.

Were there foot prints around red car?

footprints are in PDF 3...they were on green electrical box, and matching prints 5 feet south of the box. interesting is report said no footprints in the yard...wouldn't there be prints from Sergio and his sons searching the yard?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 1:43 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

I don't think anyone came in through that window but I am not sure about out.
It's easy to access back alley or side street through gate in back fence.

I don't know about the red car yet.
Leaving evidence there just seems so obviously stupid but people can be stupid.

wish we had a view of inside of that gate...those types of gates are usually only able to be unlocked from the inside...there is a pin that is dropped into the ground to secure it. we have one but on a smaller scale. if it had been opened you would be able to see marks on the ground from bottom of fence scraping, though it would not have to be opened all the way. unless someone just passed her over the top to someone else.

Ours opens from inside and we have a rope going over the top to the outside to open latch from out side of fence.

Good point about scrapes.

I wonder if they weren't there or redacted.

Do we have photos of that area in these PDFs.
I haven't read all if them yet.

Were there foot prints around red car?

footprints are in PDF 3...they were on green electrical box, and matching prints 5 feet south of the box. interesting is report said no footprints in the yard...wouldn't there be prints from Sergio and his sons searching the yard?

Car is not parked in Tarmac.
Back yard is also unsurfaced.

In sure those areas had to have been photographed.

I can see those being redacted.
Seems like very sensitive information.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 1:45 pm



this is the type of pin rod i am talking about that are very typical on gates that face alleys or roads. ours is much smaller and closer to the ground(so noone can reach over and unlock it), so there are many variations. i'm not sure if this is how their gate operates...going to go and find a good photo of their yard.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:Forgive me if this is old info. I am completely unable to keep up with all the threads and discussion on this case. This is simply an observation I made while looking at Google Street View earlier today. I don't know how I didn't see or notice it before, but I am pretty sure I see a big, double-wide GATE in the wood section at the back corner of the fence surrounding the Celis property, nearest the Master Bedroom. The larger the image, the more obvious it seems, imnsho.

Photobucket

Link to it on Google, as well: http://g.co/maps/uf5rm

bringing this post up front since it has photo of fence...based on hinges-gate opens outward. when i zoom in i see lots of rocks there-can't imagine anyone opened this gate, it would be very obvious if it was because of disturbance of soil/rocks-though i can see with the gap how dogs would get through.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Honeysage wrote:

this is the type of pin rod i am talking about that are very typical on gates that face alleys or roads. ours is much smaller and closer to the ground(so noone can reach over and unlock it), so there are many variations. i'm not sure if this is how their gate operates...going to go and find a good photo of their yard.

I remember an interior shot of the back yard from THM.

I don't know if the gate was included though.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 2:08 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:Forgive me if this is old info. I am completely unable to keep up with all the threads and discussion on this case. This is simply an observation I made while looking at Google Street View earlier today. I don't know how I didn't see or notice it before, but I am pretty sure I see a big, double-wide GATE in the wood section at the back corner of the fence surrounding the Celis property, nearest the Master Bedroom. The larger the image, the more obvious it seems, imnsho.

Photobucket

Link to it on Google, as well: http://g.co/maps/uf5rm

bringing this post up front since it has photo of fence...based on hinges-gate opens outward. when i zoom in i see lots of rocks there-can't imagine anyone opened this gate, it would be very obvious if it was because of disturbance of soil/rocks-though i can see with the gap how dogs would get through.

Ellie you are right but also there was alleged blood evidence found in red car on items placed in there so....??? Thought everything through, did they??? Who knows.

We do not have photos of that ground around gate.
If it was used someone may have tried to use the instep of their right foot to move displaced rocks or dirt back.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 2:12 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:Forgive me if this is old info. I am completely unable to keep up with all the threads and discussion on this case. This is simply an observation I made while looking at Google Street View earlier today. I don't know how I didn't see or notice it before, but I am pretty sure I see a big, double-wide GATE in the wood section at the back corner of the fence surrounding the Celis property, nearest the Master Bedroom. The larger the image, the more obvious it seems, imnsho.

Photobucket

Link to it on Google, as well: http://g.co/maps/uf5rm

bringing this post up front since it has photo of fence...based on hinges-gate opens outward. when i zoom in i see lots of rocks there-can't imagine anyone opened this gate, it would be very obvious if it was because of disturbance of soil/rocks-though i can see with the gap how dogs would get through.

Gate use indicates an inside to outside scenario.
Adobe walls are 5' ,and some, high.

Again scouting that room from outside is not easy (low window , high wall, neighbors house) and Isa did not use that room for sleeping at night.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Chickenbutt on Sat May 26, 2012 2:13 pm

Just for the sake of argument. Lots and lots of houses in AZ have RV gates. These gates are usually extra large (wide) for an RV to go in, hench the name RV gate. Snow birds have to have them to be able to get their RV's in their yards for the winter. On the inside of the gate it looks just like the pic Honeysage posted. I have an RV gate on my home in AZ.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 2:27 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:Just for the sake of argument. Lots and lots of houses in AZ have RV gates. These gates are usually extra large (wide) for an RV to go in, hench the name RV gate. Snow birds have to have them to be able to get their RV's in their yards for the winter. On the inside of the gate it looks just like the pic Honeysage posted. I have an RV gate on my home in AZ.
O/T but one of my dreams is to pack up the family and RV for a year across the country and "homeschool" the kids in real life-so much to see and learn. i travelled cross country and it was one of the best learning experiences of my life.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Chickenbutt on Sat May 26, 2012 2:30 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:Just for the sake of argument. Lots and lots of houses in AZ have RV gates. These gates are usually extra large (wide) for an RV to go in, hench the name RV gate. Snow birds have to have them to be able to get their RV's in their yards for the winter. On the inside of the gate it looks just like the pic Honeysage posted. I have an RV gate on my home in AZ.
O/T but one of my dreams is to pack up the family and RV for a year across the country and "homeschool" the kids in real life-so much to see and learn. i travelled cross country and it was one of the best learning experiences of my life.

Good luck with that Shocked
You are a much braver soul than I


Last edited by Chickenbutt on Sat May 26, 2012 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 2:32 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:Just for the sake of argument. Lots and lots of houses in AZ have RV gates. These gates are usually extra large (wide) for an RV to go in, hench the name RV gate. Snow birds have to have them to be able to get their RV's in their yards for the winter. On the inside of the gate it looks just like the pic Honeysage posted. I have an RV gate on my home in AZ.
O/T but one of my dreams is to pack up the family and RV for a year across the country and "homeschool" the kids in real life-so much to see and learn. i travelled cross country and it was one of the best learning experiences of my life.

Go for it!

When my kids are elementary school age in buying a new VW Westphalia and we will at least conquer the West including Canada!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Honeysage on Sat May 26, 2012 2:34 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:Just for the sake of argument. Lots and lots of houses in AZ have RV gates. These gates are usually extra large (wide) for an RV to go in, hench the name RV gate. Snow birds have to have them to be able to get their RV's in their yards for the winter. On the inside of the gate it looks just like the pic Honeysage posted. I have an RV gate on my home in AZ.
O/T but one of my dreams is to pack up the family and RV for a year across the country and "homeschool" the kids in real life-so much to see and learn. i travelled cross country and it was one of the best learning experiences of my life.

Go for it!

When my kids are elementary school age in buying a new VW Westphalia and we will at least conquer the West including Canada!

well then check this site out-many families blog about their experience on the road.
http://www.familiesontheroad.com/
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Tamta on Sat May 26, 2012 2:43 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:Just for the sake of argument. Lots and lots of houses in AZ have RV gates. These gates are usually extra large (wide) for an RV to go in, hench the name RV gate. Snow birds have to have them to be able to get their RV's in their yards for the winter. On the inside of the gate it looks just like the pic Honeysage posted. I have an RV gate on my home in AZ.
O/T but one of my dreams is to pack up the family and RV for a year across the country and "homeschool" the kids in real life-so much to see and learn. i travelled cross country and it was one of the best learning experiences of my life.

Go for it!

When my kids are elementary school age in buying a new VW Westphalia and we will at least conquer the West including Canada!

well then check this site out-many families blog about their experience on the road.
http://www.familiesontheroad.com/

i will!!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Puzzler on Sat May 26, 2012 3:39 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:Forgive me if this is old info. I am completely unable to keep up with all the threads and discussion on this case. This is simply an observation I made while looking at Google Street View earlier today. I don't know how I didn't see or notice it before, but I am pretty sure I see a big, double-wide GATE in the wood section at the back corner of the fence surrounding the Celis property, nearest the Master Bedroom. The larger the image, the more obvious it seems, imnsho.

Photobucket

Link to it on Google, as well: http://g.co/maps/uf5rm

bringing this post up front since it has photo of fence...based on hinges-gate opens outward. when i zoom in i see lots of rocks there-can't imagine anyone opened this gate, it would be very obvious if it was because of disturbance of soil/rocks-though i can see with the gap how dogs would get through.

Ellie you are right but also there was alleged blood evidence found in red car on items placed in there so....??? Thought everything through, did they??? Who knows.

We do not have photos of that ground around gate.
If it was used someone may have tried to use the instep of their right foot to move displaced rocks or dirt back.


In the far left side of this photo there is a red car. I that Becky's car? The red car that doesn't run? Whichever car it is, it's easily accessible by anyone.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Ellie Tza on Sat May 26, 2012 3:45 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:I had only been able to find a tiny image of the Celis Home floorplan, so I made a larger one and included a few more details (street names and such). I hope this might be helpful to some of you.

Photobucket
After I went to all this trouble, pretty please use this better image of the floorplan! ;-P
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Sat May 26, 2012 5:36 pm

Calypso wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Calypso wrote:Going out the window makes sense since that would keep the risk of being seen by anyone in the household to a minimum, rather than carrying Isabel out the front door.

But geez, can you imagine trying to carry a 6 yr old out through a window that is not on ground level and you have to step on a meter box in order to reach up to it? Getting in or out at that height off the ground would *surely* require both hands and some nimble footwork. I cannot even fathom trying to do it where you have to have at least one arm around a 6 yr old kid.

Isabel's window is big but low to the ground.

I do not recall the electric box under her window.
I don't think it wOuld have been installed there.

Maybe they would have had to step on something inside to get out with her if the perp was alone, but I think that one could step over window sash onto the ground.

IIRC, wasn't there a green box on the neighbor's side of the wall?

Here is a pic from Google maps.

[url]
View Larger Map[/url]

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Sat May 26, 2012 5:44 pm

Freckles wrote:PDF 3

page 37:
Two CDs collected but the titles were deleted.
Found this odd. When the PD found a shirt with "Star Wars" on it, the name was printed.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/link/563529/pdf-celis-3-details-on-air-search-boot-prints-found-at-home

I can't remember which PDF file it was in, but LE also conficated 40+ CD's from a storage building.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Sat May 26, 2012 5:51 pm

Tamta wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Does anyone know "why" these documents were released to the public?

So we would shut up for a couple of days?

hee, hee

Or ideas????

IDK - Florida has the Sunshine Law - and the public gets to see "most" of those documents "after" they've gone to the defense.

In this case there is no "defense"...no arrest...notta.

I know the press can usually go to court and ask for release of 911 calls....we got that the other day and I assumed that's what happened - press went to court and the judge ruled to release the 911 call.

But I don't have any ideas on why all these documents have been released - especially with no one having been charged.

Anyone else know the answer?

Well the court ordered ban on their suppression was just lifted.
But I do not know if this is unique to AZ investigations or it is supposed to mean something else.

Was the order lifted because of a FOIA request?

No, I believe the judge's order just expired, but IIRC there may be an extension on other evidence collected. This was not a full release.

5-9 pages back or so I posted a link to an article referencing the extension for suppression.

I will start to look for it.

It was in the press conference. It was stated LE was requesting an extension for suppression of the search warrant for the Celis home.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Sat May 26, 2012 6:01 pm

Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.

I think itis the last PDf doc that states they got latent finger prints from the inside of Isa's window. Wonder if the fingerprints matched anyone in the home?

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by nanaof4 on Sat May 26, 2012 6:13 pm

Here is a shot from Google Maps. You can see where the electrical box may be just outside of the south wall.

[url]
View Larger Map[/url]

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

Post by Freckles on Sat May 26, 2012 6:18 pm

Honeysage wrote:
ishi wrote:Her windows look like the kind I have. The latch is on the top of the bottom half window and when the bottom half is raised all the way the latch is not easily visible as it is at the top and snug in the very top of the window frame.
i zoomed in on the closed window and don't see anything, it's totally smooth across the window. not that it matters, nooone went in or out that window as far as i'm concerned. footprints and dog scents were found outside the yard...i'm thinking she was taken out the garage to a car in the alley...wonder how quiet their garage door is.
Actually, there are how many doors exiting the house? If she was not taken through the window (assuming that was a stage) she could have been taken from the front door. But that could be too highly visible. What about exiting from the back porch area? From there, it would not be that difficult to place her in a vehicle parked just inside a gate--- pull the car in through the gate, shut the gate; place child in vehicle;
exit property' shut gate.

What is important, for me, are these things:
-- Neighbor hears two men speaking early in the AM
--Dogs barking although SV or BV says THEIR dogs were not barking; neighbor says they were.
--Justin: Where was he?
--SV: According to the report, he put Isobel to bed. He asked the boys to quiet down.
SV then watched TV until (?? What time was that? 4:30 or 5:30 ??) early in the AM.

He let the two boys stay up until all hours yet put the girl abed? A ten year old and a fourteen year old? According to SV, the boys were still up around midnight.

--Becky: Stated after they got home she did Isobel's hair. I am guessing this was after the showers? Ok. So Isobel pops in for a shower. Her hair has to be dried because it is long and it is bed time. So Becky dries Isobel's hair and braids it. This takes time. What time did Isobel get home, take a shower, have her hair dried, have her hair done, and finally go to bed? Dad says Isobel went to bed at 11 PM. (SV asked her if she wanted something to eat and she declined. Went to the bed to go to sleep. )

Does this fit a time line?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12

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