Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by senseigurl on Mon May 28, 2012 10:58 pm

Looks like there is already a facebook page made in support of AGT. Most likely made by a friend or family. http://www.facebook.com/AntolinGarciaTorresSupportPage

I wonder if anything is gonna be said defending him on the website?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 1:43 am

senseigurl wrote:Looks like there is already a facebook page made in support of AGT. Most likely made by a friend or family. http://www.facebook.com/AntolinGarciaTorresSupportPage

I wonder if anything is gonna be said defending him on the website?

I looked at it.
It is not a positive thing to do, at least how it is 'organized' at this moment.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by justanopinion on Tue May 29, 2012 9:07 am

Tamta wrote:
senseigurl wrote:Looks like there is already a facebook page made in support of AGT. Most likely made by a friend or family. http://www.facebook.com/AntolinGarciaTorresSupportPage

I wonder if anything is gonna be said defending him on the website?

I looked at it.
It is not a positive thing to do, at least how it is 'organized' at this moment.


On one of the comments on this page there is a question about someone else in the car with AGT? Has that been released? Did I miss something?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 29, 2012 9:20 am

Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by senseigurl on Tue May 29, 2012 9:36 am

justanopinion wrote:
Tamta wrote:
senseigurl wrote:Looks like there is already a facebook page made in support of AGT. Most likely made by a friend or family. http://www.facebook.com/AntolinGarciaTorresSupportPage

I wonder if anything is gonna be said defending him on the website?

I looked at it.
It is not a positive thing to do, at least how it is 'organized' at this moment.


On one of the comments on this page there is a question about someone else in the car with AGT? Has that been released? Did I miss something?


It says on the felony complaint "accomplice." How are they defining it legally?
http://dig.abclocal.go.com/kgo/PDF/ANTOLIN-GARCIA-TORRES-FELONY-COMPLAINT.pdf

Gonna screenshot the fb comment.



Last edited by senseigurl on Tue May 29, 2012 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added screen shot)
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 29, 2012 9:40 am

I think the word accomplice is just a formality and used normally in this instance. I don't read anything else into it that there was another person, just the way they state facts etc.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Joju on Tue May 29, 2012 10:51 am

I had to work this Memorial day, lets hope LE did and we will hear more info soon.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 11:31 am

Joju wrote:Stun guns need to be outlawed for the public.

personally, I think the pecking order for banning (if it were necessary) should be real guns, then stun guns -- If there's going to be crimes involving weapons, the preference would be stun guns rather than real guns. I think stats will show far less crimes against each other using stun guns. It can work both ways -- a stun gun can be a very effective self-defense tool against a would-be attacker. Stun guns are legal in my state and If I lived in a high crim area, I wouldn't think twice to buy and carry one. I'd rather knock someone out than use a lethal weapon on them and end up in George Zimmerman mess.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 11:36 am

SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.
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Sierra LaMar Missing 03-16-2012

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 12:14 pm

Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.

Not to rain on anybody's torches and pitchforks, but this woman came forward eh, after three years claiming she could spot him in a line up.
A person's looks can change from age supposedly 18-21.
But, how does that jive with the person who described the
alleged perp as about 30? I bet if he was put in a line up
of several similar looking guys before his picture got plastered everywhere, she would have been hard pressed to pick him out
of a lineup. No matter who the guy was she looked through her
car window at years ago.

I realize that there is a push to solve this crime.
I just don't know about this case and it's supposed
witnesses and convenient evidence, but no blood
or body fluids.

If they had his DNA since Sierra's bag was found, and
it was positive ID of Antolin, how come he was not arrested
and brought in for questioning?
I hope they have more than a hair or two in his car and skin
cells on this and that. I mean, Marlene says they collected her
hairbrush for forensic tests way back. Just sayin.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 12:16 pm

SANTA CLARA COUNTY:
On direct-indirect evidence, keeping little girls safe, tough stance on sexual predators, and a tireless commit to justice despite political inconveniences.

9 DeAnza Baseball Team Members accused of gang raping a drunk, 17 year old girl at a party.

After review of the Civil Trial, DA Jeffrey Rosen declines to pursue ANY criminal charges against these young men.

These were the allegations:
negligence, battery, sexual battery, false imprisonment, invasion of privacy, conspiracy, unlawful intercourse, rape of an unconscious woman, rape of an intoxicated woman, and intentional infliction of emotional distress.

The girls who barged in and rescued her allegedly saw it happening through a window.


WHAT IS A LITTLE GIRL IN CA?
[/b]
-[b]she was 17 years [/b]old and highly intoxicated from drinking more than 10 shots of vodka. Three members of the De Anza women's soccer team barged into the room after spotting through a windowpane in a door what they described as a semi-comatose girl lying in vomit, and brought her to the hospital.
(She did not refuse medical examination.)

-Santa Clara County District Attorney Jeff Rosen announced Friday his office would not file criminal charges against the De Anza College baseball players accused of gang raping a 17-year-old girl at a house party in 2007.

-Knopf and Chadwick claimed that the sex was consensual.
--she was 17 years old

CALIFORNIA
PENAL CODE
SECTION 261-269

261.5. (a) Unlawful sexual intercourse is an act of sexual
intercourse accomplished with a person who is not the spouse of the
perpetrator, if the person is a minor.

For the purposes of this section, a "minor" is a person
under the age of 18 years and an "adult" is a person
who is at least 18 years of age.


"GOOD FACTS": Direct and Indirect Evidence

-The girls who barged in and rescued her allegedly saw it happening through a window.(DIRECT EVIDENCE)

-Three members of the De Anza women's soccer team barged into the room after spotting through a windowpane in a door what they described as a semi-comatose girl lying in vomit, and brought her to the hospital.
(She did not refuse medical examination.)
(INDIRECT EVIDENCE OF BODILY HARM AND SEXUAL ASSAULT WITH THE DIRECT EVIDENCE AT HER SIDE.)

-At a news conference in San Jose Friday morning, Rosen said the district attorney’s office reached its decision following an “exhaustive and extensive” review by experienced sexual assault prosecutor Ray Mendoza.

Even so, Rosen said the investigation found that the suspects had sex with an intoxicated girl (A MINOR) while other men watched and that one man tried to keep others from coming into the bedroom. He said their actions consistently showed more concern for themselves and each other than for the victim(I THOUGHT SHE WAS NOT A VICTIM? WHAT CRIME?).

-Three young women, identified as Lauren Bryeans, Lauren Chief Elk and April Grolle, pushed their way into the room where the girl was allegedly being assaulted and took her to the hospital.

-Afterward, both Chief Elk and Grolle publicly described finding the vomiting semi-conscious girl in a room surrounded by eight men with one allegedly between her legs.

THE CONCLUSION

-Young men suspended from the team for breaking policy. (Under age drinking.)

-He said after examining the facts and evidence in the case, the conclusion reached was that it would have been difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a sexual assault occurred.

(But she is a victim and by logic they are the perps and thus the predators and the predators are free on the streets.)

(negligence, battery, sexual battery, false imprisonment, invasion of privacy, conspiracy, unlawful intercourse, rape of an unconscious woman, rape of an intoxicated woman, and intentional infliction of emotional distress. Out of the 9 individuals involved they really could not find one shred of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that one of those young men were guilty of? Civil trial jury and insurance investigators did not seem to agree.)[/color]

-Nine men were originally on trial in the civil case. Seven were dropped, settled or transferred their rights to sue their insurance companies for failing to defend them in the lawsuit. The settlements are confidential, but sources close to the case characterized them for the Mercury News. Two were tried in the Civil Suit.

[b]-Settlements paid
The plaintiff's lead attorney, Barbara Spector, said her client walked away with a "significant settlement from a number of the defendants." The settlements are confidential, but sources close to the case said Scott Righetti's insurance company paid about $500,000 to $600,000, and Stefano Rebagliati's, no more than $50,000. Righetti is alleged to have stood guard at the bedroom door; Rebagliati allowed his grandson to live in the house for free even though he allegedly knew his grandson gave wild parties. The young woman, now a single mother of a 2-year-old son, may net all or part of that, depending on her arrangement with Spector's firm. However, she is also responsible for Knopf's and Chadwick's costs, excluding attorney's fees, which could be about $150,000.





http://www.ageofconsent.com/california.htm
http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_17793153
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/baycitynews/archive/2011/04/07/deanza07.DTL
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/10/14/da-declines-to-file-charges-in-de-anza-baseball-team-rape-case/
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 12:23 pm

GOOD FACTS IN SANTA CLARA

http://www.forensicsguy.com/benchnotes/santa-clara-county-da-criticized-for-crime-lab-failures/

-The Santa Clara County dis­trict attor­ney has opened the door to the pos­si­bil­ity of wrong­ful con­vic­tions by fail­ing to objec­tively inves­ti­gate crime lab errors, the national Innocence Project charged this week.

-The group, in a national report released this week, sin­gled out the local pros­e­cu­tor for fail­ing to hire an out­side agency to inves­ti­gate a for­mal com­plaint that fol­lowed the 2007 dis­cov­ery that Jeffrey Rodriguez had been wrongly con­victed of rob­bery based on faulty tes­ti­mony from a crime lab ana­lyst con­cern­ing a stain found on the defendant’s pants.

-Agencies fac­ing alle­ga­tions of crime lab wrong­do­ing are both vio­lat­ing the law and risk­ing pub­lic safety by con­duct­ing their own inves­ti­ga­tions, the report con­cludes, cit­ing a 5-year-old fed­eral law that requires inde­pen­dent inves­ti­ga­tions of prob­lems in any crime labs accept­ing fed­eral grants. The report includes the results of a national sur­vey, which shows labs around the coun­try have failed to cre­ate pro­ce­dures for inde­pen­dent inves­ti­ga­tions of crime lab problems.

-Moriyama was reas­signed fol­low­ing that case from serv­ing as the crime lab’s fiber expert. His work had come under scrutiny in other cases as well. Moriyama had failed cer­ti­fi­ca­tion tests. And mur­der charges against Maurice Nasmeh, in the high-profile killing of Los Gatos woman Jeanine Harms, were dropped in 2007, after a defense expert chal­lenged Nasmeh’s find­ing link­ing fibers in the back of Nasmeh’s vehi­cle to a rug Harms was making.

-Officials in the District Attorney’s Office said Friday they have not yet com­pleted their re-investigation of the evi­dence in that case.



http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/asm/ab_0201-0250/ab_239_cfa_20110620_123137_sen_comm.html

COMMENTS

1.
Need for This Bill


According to the author:

Criminal laboratories play an integral role in the
criminal justice system, however cases of serious
misconduct, neglect, and poor practices cast doubt and
mistrust in criminal cases and the justice system. AB
239 seeks to address the critical need of statewide
crime laboratory oversight in California to ensure that
all criminal cases are handled fairly and appropriately.


In 2010, San Francisco's criminal laboratory was hit
with a scandal involving stolen drug evidence,
contaminated DNA samples, destroyed records, and sample
switching. This scandal alone prompted hundreds of
narcotics cases to be thrown out or not charged because
of possible evidence tampering, and the review of over



AB 239 (Ammiano)



1,400 more for possible dismissal.

While the charges of misconduct are shocking, they are
not unique to San Francisco. In recent years,
laboratories in Santa Clara and the Central Valley have
had similar problems of stolen drug evidence, and
misconduct. These cases raise serious red flags about
the management, and integrity of criminal laboratories,
which not only affects public perception of the criminal
justice system, but also the numerous people who
potentially might be wrongfully convicted due to serious
neglect.



http://www.veritasinitiative.org/our-work/prosecutorial-misconduct/pc-case-profiles/

DIRECT EVIDENCE?

In 1991, Rick Walker was convicted of first degree murder and sentenced to 26 years to life in prison. The victim was Walker’s ex-girlfriend and fingerprints on evidence at the scene led police to Rahsson Bowers. Bowers named Walker as an accomplice. Three weeks into Walker’s trial, the prosecution announced a surprise plea agreement and Bowers testified against Walker. Years later, family friend and lawyer Alison Tucher located new evidence, including five witnesses identifying Marc Swanson as the killer. In 2002, the Santa Clara County Crime Lab matched DNA on evidence recovered from the scene to Swanson. Walker was released from prison after serving 12 years in prison and received an apology from the District Attorney’s office. Swanson pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter and is now serving a 15 year sentence.

TRANSPARENCY OF THE PROSECUTION?
Gloria Killian
In 2002, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit overturned the murder conviction of Gloria Killian because Sacramento County deputy district attorney Christopher Cleland failed to turn over a letter written by the key prosecution witness, stating he had lied to put Killian behind bars. Killian was accused of being the mastermind of a murder and robbery plot and was convicted in 1986 primarily on the testimony of an admitted participant in the murder. The witness, Gary Masse, had been convicted of the murder and sentenced to life without parole; he testified at Killian’s trial that Killian concocted the murder, and he also denied that he had any kind of deal for leniency. Years later, Killian’s lawyers obtained a letter from Masse to the prosecutor that the prosecutor had never turned over to the defense, saying that Masse’s testimony implicating Killian was a lie. Killian won her release after 18 years in prison


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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 12:45 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claiming that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.

Not to rain on anybody's torches and pitchforks, but this woman came forward eh, after three years claiming she could spot him in a line up.

This is incorrect. She reported the crime that very evening after she came home from Safeway. Reports show that no delay occurred in reporting the crime or conveying the details of the man's face that she saw. The composite sketch was detailed in an articled dated 2009, so that debunks any theory that the sketch was not provided until recent.

Here is the article dated 2009 that shows the sketch provided by the victim
http://www.fugitive.com/2009/03/24/assault-morgan-hill-sketch-of-unknown-suspect-who-attacked-women-safeway/

Here is the article confirming the timing of her crime report
http://www.contracostatimes.com/crime-courts/ci_20692278
"Earlier that evening, an incident was reported at the Safeway on Dunne Avenue after a woman reported she was followed to her car by a man, who tried to open her door. The woman noticed the man was walking fast behind her and locked her car doors before he caught up, Hoefling said.

The woman drove away and didn't report the incident until she got home. Police treated the incident as a suspicious circumstance case."

This article confirms that the woman who locked her doors and called the same evening was the same woman who provided the composite sketch:

***
"It was 11:pm at night" she recalled. "Thank God I was able to get inside my car, but then I looked up and saw him, staring right at me through the window. He had a very smug look and those pursed lips. I'll never forget it.

She was able to get away untouched, but her description of the man led to a polic sketch.

***
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 29, 2012 12:45 pm

Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO
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Sierra LaMar Missing 03-16-2012

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 12:50 pm

12 years false imprisonment in one case and 18 years in another!
With only an apology for recompense?
This is outrageous.
I have to say, I was a bit skeptical when I saw that
the name on the door is the DA's Crime Lab.

Well ain't that the truth?
This might be circumvented by having the defense send
their evidence to an out-of-state private lab with no
dog in the fight.
But, how does that help any chain of evidence
issues, if you get my drift?

Great find, Tamta!

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 12:52 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.

If they had his DNA since Sierra's bag was found, and
it was positive ID of Antolin, how come he was not arrested
and brought in for questioning?
I hope they have more than a hair or two in his car and skin
cells on this and that. I mean, Marlene says they collected her
hairbrush for forensic tests way back. Just sayin.

I think that is evident since they had been tailing him for weeks - they likely knew that if guilty he would do what he is doing now - invoking the 5th and not telling where the body is. It seems very likely they did not arrest him so they could tail him and see if he would lead them to a body. A charge with no body is more difficult to pursue. But it's possible they knew he was onto them and started to perceive him a flight risk given.

Torres has already made several claims to both his family members and to police that he has never had any contact whatsoever with Sierra. And yet her DNA is in his car and his DNA is on her clothes. I would like to hear a logical explanation to account for those two facts that point to anything other than Torres lying about his contact with Sierra. And in that case he must explain such contact.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 12:52 pm

SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

My point:

As he was working at Safeway in 2009, I'm sure he was available to the investigation for a line up and prints and DNA.

There should be no need for any victim or witness to operate off of a sketch.

I'll wait to see what they have on him.
The DA himself admitted "we need to PROVE" his involvement in those attacks.
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Sierra LaMar Missing 03-16-2012

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 12:52 pm

SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 12:54 pm

Stolat wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.

If they had his DNA since Sierra's bag was found, and
it was positive ID of Antolin, how come he was not arrested
and brought in for questioning?
I hope they have more than a hair or two in his car and skin
cells on this and that. I mean, Marlene says they collected her
hairbrush for forensic tests way back. Just sayin.

I think that is evident since they had been tailing him for weeks - they likely knew that if guilty he would do what he is doing now - invoking the 5th and not telling where the body is. It seems very likely they did not arrest him so they could tail him and see if he would lead them to a body. A charge with no body is more difficult to pursue. But it's possible they knew he was onto them and started to perceive him a flight risk given.

Torres has already made several claims to both his family members and to police that he has never had any contact whatsoever with Sierra. And yet her DNA is in his car and his DNA is on her clothes. I would like to hear a logical explanation to account for those two facts that point to anything other than Torres lying about his contact with Sierra. And in that case he must explain such contact.

Lots of people lie.
And it really bothers me.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 29, 2012 1:00 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 29, 2012 1:05 pm

Tamta wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

My point:

As he was working at Safeway in 2009, I'm sure he was available to the investigation for a line up and prints and DNA.

There should be no need for any victim or witness to operate off of a sketch.

I'll wait to see what they have on him.
The DA himself admitted "we need to PROVE" his involvement in those attacks.

I will say that having worked on claims etc at Big chain stores that it would not be protocol for the store to line up all their employees and put them through a line up or finger prints or DNA testing etc. In fact most folks would consider that an infringement on their rights especially if it was happening at work. I'm not saying it wouldnt have been a good idea for Safeway to take a look at their own employees, but it is not always done or even commonly done. As was suggested previously, the police department did not seem to pursue this after the initial attempts etc. But I have never seen a store subject its employees to a police line up, finger printing or DNA even when hundreds of crimes have been commited on the store property.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 1:07 pm

SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

For the sake of argument:

A line up with store employees may well have been done and he may not have been identified by any of these women and that information may never be released.

The DA has to prove these allegations.
By the way, they aren't even charging him with these assaults at the moment.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 1:11 pm

SweetT wrote:
Tamta wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

My point:

As he was working at Safeway in 2009, I'm sure he was available to the investigation for a line up and prints and DNA.

There should be no need for any victim or witness to operate off of a sketch.

I'll wait to see what they have on him.
The DA himself admitted "we need to PROVE" his involvement in those attacks.

I will say that having worked on claims etc at Big chain stores that it would not be protocol for the store to line up all their employees and put them through a line up or finger prints or DNA testing etc. In fact most folks would consider that an infringement on their rights especially if it was happening at work. I'm not saying it wouldnt have been a good idea for Safeway to take a look at their own employees, but it is not always done or even commonly done. As was suggested previously, the police department did not seem to pursue this after the initial attempts etc. But I have never seen a store subject its employees to a police line up, finger printing or DNA even when hundreds of crimes have been commited on the store property.

LE was called and responded to these incidents.

Im sure they at least filed reports and did SOME investigative effort.

If a store or PD would not see the importance of screening employees then I have no further comment on the truth and integrity of the investigation into these serious assaults against female food shoppers.
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Sierra LaMar Missing 03-16-2012

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 1:11 pm

SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

Oh, you've only seen the one?

I see.

Well, I don't see how the chubby-cheeked hoodie guy is the same.
It looks rather generic. I bet I could do that same blow up overlay to any number of hispanic males and you could say the same thing.
Was there a line up to pick out a suspect?
Did anyone else that Antolin worked with at the Deli and who saw him everyday, say "hey man, this looks just like you"?
Doubt it. Because if that were the case, why wasn't he matched with the DNA and positively ID'd by this same witness and convicted? Instead of it remaining an unsolved case.
I mean he was right there every day going to work.

They have not been able to explain to me, how they had his DNA but couldn't solve it then, but now it just falls into place how they want it to.
He might be the guy.
He might not.
I just don't want to go 12, 15, 18 years down the road
and find out they rushed to close this case because he
commuted down Palm and Daughtery.
LE outright lied already about the evidence in this case.
I hope they aren't reaching with what they have to convict
SOMEBODY and solve this case. Just because they have no
body to test forensically by an outside lab.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by SweetT on Tue May 29, 2012 1:14 pm

Tamta: I would be shocked if there were ever a line up of any of the employees. (I think the store would be looking at a lawsuit if that occurred ). And you are correct, he has not been charged with any of these assaults at this time.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:16 pm

Tamta wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

My point:

As he was working at Safeway in 2009, I'm sure he was available to the investigation for a line up and prints and DNA.

There should be no need for any victim or witness to operate off of a sketch.

I'll wait to see what they have on him.
The DA himself admitted "we need to PROVE" his involvement in those attacks.

I had not heard that there were any prints collected at any of the scenes in 2009. The presence of or absence of prints would be news to me. One case would have no prints as the woman got away. The other two cases he did get inside the car - but could have been smart enough to wear gloves (just as he was smart enough to detect and find police GPS tracking on both cars).

Based on the previous article we read last week proving that Safeway did practically *nothing* to increase safety of its shoppers after the 3 attacks, it seems very possible they also did very little to nothing to get involved in any subsequent investigation - such as requiring employees to be questioned and/or fingerprinted or have DNA collected. I think their complete negligence and apathy in the whole matter is despicable. I cannot believe that a woman complained to management twice about parking lot lights being out and the manager said it wasn't his problem or Safeway's -- it was the landlord. Incredible coming from a store whose lot it was where their own shoppers were accosted. What a way to pass the buck. And completely reasonable to me that they continued to pass the buck and feign involvement. It also sounds like at the time, the police were not too heavily involved either-- especially now that we are reading that the police merely classified this event as a "suspicious circumstance" case. To them, that was the extent of it and likely the minimal escalation level it reached also prevented them from assigning too many manhours and hence the neglect to followup with prints or DNA. Money & resources go into such protocols and it is evident that not much followup occurred.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Lash on Tue May 29, 2012 1:20 pm

Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.
Oddly, the statements Klaas made in this article caused me to rethink whether Sierra could still be alive. The comment Klaas made about AGT not having a history of violence against women or children, aside from one case that was dropped I feel is misleading. The charge of sex with a minor was dropped. However, he was charged with a felony battery and he was convicted of a reduced misdemeanor battery. AGT was ordered to take anger management classes. The victim was a man, but AGT does have a history and record of violence. Even knowing AGT has not been charged with the 2009 Safeway attacks, it is hard to not include them in the bigger picture. I can only assume Mr. Klaas chose to "legally" not include these assaults in AGT's history of violence against women.

I had previously left open the possibility Sierra could be alive and a victim of sex trafficking. In my opinion, the details in Sierra's purse, the 2009 assaults and the window into the life of AGT all combined do not fit trafficking. I do believe LE and the prosecution has not yet presented enough evidence that she is deceased. I can only speculate they will when the time is right.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 1:21 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

My point:

As he was working at Safeway in 2009, I'm sure he was available to the investigation for a line up and prints and DNA.

There should be no need for any victim or witness to operate off of a sketch.

I'll wait to see what they have on him.
The DA himself admitted "we need to PROVE" his involvement in those attacks.

I had not heard that there were any prints collected at any of the scenes in 2009. The presence of or absence of prints would be news to me. One case would have no prints as the woman got away. The other two cases he did get inside the car - but could have been smart enough to wear gloves (just as he was smart enough to detect and find police GPS tracking on both cars).

Based on the previous article we read last week proving that Safeway did practically *nothing* to increase safety of its shoppers after the 3 attacks, it seems very possible they also did very little to nothing to get involved in any subsequent investigation - such as requiring employees to be questioned and/or fingerprinted or have DNA collected. I think their complete negligence and apathy in the whole matter is despicable. I cannot believe that a woman complained to management twice about parking lot lights being out and the manager said it wasn't his problem or Safeway's -- it was the landlord. Incredible coming from a store whose lot it was where their own shoppers were accosted. What a way to pass the buck. And completely reasonable to me that they continued to pass the buck and feign involvement. It also sounds like at the time, the police were not too heavily involved either-- especially now that we are reading that the police merely classified this event as a "suspicious circumstance" case. To them, that was the extent of it and likely the minimal escalation level it reached also prevented them from assigning too many manhours and hence the neglect to followup with prints or DNA. Money & resources go into such protocols and it is evident that not much followup occurred.

The only reason I do not say laughable (and I mean laughable in the un-funniest of ways) is out of respect for what these women endured, and the fear that they may still have.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:30 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

Oh, you've only seen the one?

I see.

Well, I don't see how the chubby-cheeked hoodie guy is the same.
It looks rather generic. I bet I could do that same blow up overlay to any number of hispanic males and you could say the same thing.
Was there a line up to pick out a suspect?
Did anyone else that Antolin worked with at the Deli and who saw him everyday, say "hey man, this looks just like you"?
Doubt it. Because if that were the case, why wasn't he matched with the DNA and positively ID'd by this same witness and convicted? Instead of it remaining an unsolved case.
I mean he was right there every day going to work.

They have not been able to explain to me, how they had his DNA but couldn't solve it then, but now it just falls into place how they want it to.
He might be the guy.
He might not.
I just don't want to go 12, 15, 18 years down the road
and find out they rushed to close this case because he
commuted down Palm and Daughtery.


LE outright lied already about the evidence in this case.
I hope they aren't reaching with what they have to convict
SOMEBODY and solve this case. Just because they have no
body to test forensically by an outside lab.

I'm curious what you think of in terms of Sierra's DNA being found in his car -- is that indicative of a guy who is *only* commuting down Palm & Daugherty?

Also, I see no where that LE ever promised anyone to play be any certain rules regarding their obligation to report findings back to the public. In fact, I don't know if they owe anything to the public in way of details during an active investigation. I assume LE pulls these stunts all the time, as I see it in my local paper often. So, I wasn't so surprised by it. Did they lie about their evidence? Technically not. They were very careful to word their press releases or public releases. Did they lie through Marlene's vague responses - very possibly - but if Marlene felt this tactic integral to finding her daughter, who are we to penalize her?

A jury is part of the safeguard to see if LE has rushed judgement with no facts or not. And a jury will be able to decide why DNA of a victim is found in the car of a man who swears he never touched, saw or spoke to her. Who has told the bigger lie - police or Torres?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:36 pm

Lash wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.
Oddly, the statements Klaas made in this article caused me to rethink whether Sierra could still be alive. The comment Klaas made about AGT not having a history of violence against women or children, aside from one case that was dropped I feel is misleading. The charge of sex with a minor was dropped. However, he was charged with a felony battery and he was convicted of a reduced misdemeanor battery. AGT was ordered to take anger management classes. The victim was a man, but AGT does have a history and record of violence. Even knowing AGT has not been charged with the 2009 Safeway attacks, it is hard to not include them in the bigger picture. I can only assume Mr. Klaas chose to "legally" not include these assaults in AGT's history of violence against women.

I had previously left open the possibility Sierra could be alive and a victim of sex trafficking. In my opinion, the details in Sierra's purse, the 2009 assaults and the window into the life of AGT all combined do not fit trafficking. I do believe LE and the prosecution has not yet presented enough evidence that she is deceased. I can only speculate they will when the time is right.

Lash, I found it interesting that one of the reasons they feel she is dead is based on Torres taking the 5th. If he were involved and she were alive, he'd very likely bargain her location to downgrade a murder charge to kidnapping or even trafficking. But the fact he's taking the 5th and is not talking indicates he has either no rush to do so (because she is not alive and not being held against her will somewhere without food or water) or because he knows there is no plea bargain to negotiate. Might he be completely innocent? Anything's possible - but for me, he must first explain why he has deceived everyone about his contacts with Sierra in his car.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 1:42 pm

Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.
Oddly, the statements Klaas made in this article caused me to rethink whether Sierra could still be alive. The comment Klaas made about AGT not having a history of violence against women or children, aside from one case that was dropped I feel is misleading. The charge of sex with a minor was dropped. However, he was charged with a felony battery and he was convicted of a reduced misdemeanor battery. AGT was ordered to take anger management classes. The victim was a man, but AGT does have a history and record of violence. Even knowing AGT has not been charged with the 2009 Safeway attacks, it is hard to not include them in the bigger picture. I can only assume Mr. Klaas chose to "legally" not include these assaults in AGT's history of violence against women.

I had previously left open the possibility Sierra could be alive and a victim of sex trafficking. In my opinion, the details in Sierra's purse, the 2009 assaults and the window into the life of AGT all combined do not fit trafficking. I do believe LE and the prosecution has not yet presented enough evidence that she is deceased. I can only speculate they will when the time is right.

Lash, I found it interesting that one of the reasons they feel she is dead is based on Torres taking the 5th. If he were involved and she were alive, he'd very likely bargain her location to downgrade a murder charge to kidnapping or even trafficking. But the fact he's taking the 5th and is not talking indicates he has either no rush to do so (because she is not alive and not being held against her will somewhere without food or water) or because he knows there is no plea bargain to negotiate. Might he be completely innocent? Anything's possible - but for me, he must first explain why he has deceived everyone about his contacts with Sierra in his car.

Stolat,

Up until his arraignment he did not have counsel.
I am sure he is familiar with the Miranda Warning.
He should not have said a thing, guilty or innocent.

Personally, looking at the chronology and strategy of the DA, notably these added allegations for 2009 assaults, I think the DA was hoping for a confession or plea deal.

My speculation is that the DA has been running this very high profile investigation with the FBI and that the SO has played a very minor role and also acting as the go tos for this case.


Last edited by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Lash on Tue May 29, 2012 1:42 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

Oh, you've only seen the one?

I see.

Well, I don't see how the chubby-cheeked hoodie guy is the same.
It looks rather generic. I bet I could do that same blow up overlay to any number of hispanic males and you could say the same thing.
Was there a line up to pick out a suspect?
Did anyone else that Antolin worked with at the Deli and who saw him everyday, say "hey man, this looks just like you"?
Doubt it. Because if that were the case, why wasn't he matched with the DNA and positively ID'd by this same witness and convicted? Instead of it remaining an unsolved case.
I mean he was right there every day going to work.

They have not been able to explain to me, how they had his DNA but couldn't solve it then, but now it just falls into place how they want it to.
He might be the guy.
He might not.
I just don't want to go 12, 15, 18 years down the road
and find out they rushed to close this case because he
commuted down Palm and Daughtery.
LE outright lied already about the evidence in this case.
I hope they aren't reaching with what they have to convict
SOMEBODY and solve this case. Just because they have no
body to test forensically by an outside lab.
BBM - MH Police department did not have AGT's DNA in March of 2009. His DNA was not in CODIS at that time. It was not until his later convictions. The DNA from the 2009 assaults did not have a CODIS match, therefore no suspect to match in the database. The DNA could not be entered into CODIS without a match. It would be MH PD responsibility to continue to checking the database for NEW additions.

I agree with you that the sketch is sort of a generic look. However, LE contacted the 2009 Safeway victim weeks before his arrest. If she was asked to do a "photo" lineup, it would have been before his face was plastered all over the world. If not, it would not be admissible. The match would be strong evidence in my opinion.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:44 pm

SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

Yes, and the MySpace account photos (which was active mostly between 2008-2010) have a much chubbier Torres pictured. So yes, the chubbier one with the hoodie that looks like the chubbier Torres pictured in MySpace photo #7 and #6...thicker fuller cheeks.
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Sierra LaMar Missing 03-16-2012

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 1:46 pm

At Stolat:

The reference to that intersection is pertaining to statements made that brought him up on their radar.
"He was seen on that route a fact that did not escape
LE notice".
Was that before or after they supposedly had his DNA in
her possessions?
I mean if before, why were they targeting him?
And if after, well if you've got his DNA and he drives to
work not avoiding the area as usual, it doesn't make sense really either.

If the lab doing the testing were already in trouble for
mishandling of evidence and wrongful convictions, I don't believe I'd be mistating any facts about that evidence in
public like I could lie because I'm LE.
There was no reason to lie about whether they were looking for the car or already had it.
The alleged perp knew they had his car.
So why lie to the public?
Why give a false picture of a car one day and an alleged
correct one the very next and say it is cctv footage that
conveniently has no date/time stamp?

If this were my case there wouldn't be a hint of lying to the public or making any false statements regarding the evidence, at all.
For any reason whatsoever.

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Sierra LaMar Missing 03-16-2012

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 1:49 pm

Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

Yes, and the MySpace account photos (which was active mostly between 2008-2010) have a much chubbier Torres pictured. So yes, the chubbier one with the hoodie that looks like the chubbier Torres pictured in MySpace photo #7 and #6...thicker fuller cheeks.

And yet he went to work at a store that had the sketch on the door!
People who saw him everyday did not think he looked like the same dead ringer then, that so many people do now.

How do you explain that?

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:50 pm

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.
Oddly, the statements Klaas made in this article caused me to rethink whether Sierra could still be alive. The comment Klaas made about AGT not having a history of violence against women or children, aside from one case that was dropped I feel is misleading. The charge of sex with a minor was dropped. However, he was charged with a felony battery and he was convicted of a reduced misdemeanor battery. AGT was ordered to take anger management classes. The victim was a man, but AGT does have a history and record of violence. Even knowing AGT has not been charged with the 2009 Safeway attacks, it is hard to not include them in the bigger picture. I can only assume Mr. Klaas chose to "legally" not include these assaults in AGT's history of violence against women.

I had previously left open the possibility Sierra could be alive and a victim of sex trafficking. In my opinion, the details in Sierra's purse, the 2009 assaults and the window into the life of AGT all combined do not fit trafficking. I do believe LE and the prosecution has not yet presented enough evidence that she is deceased. I can only speculate they will when the time is right.

Lash, I found it interesting that one of the reasons they feel she is dead is based on Torres taking the 5th. If he were involved and she were alive, he'd very likely bargain her location to downgrade a murder charge to kidnapping or even trafficking. But the fact he's taking the 5th and is not talking indicates he has either no rush to do so (because she is not alive and not being held against her will somewhere without food or water) or because he knows there is no plea bargain to negotiate. Might he be completely innocent? Anything's possible - but for me, he must first explain why he has deceived everyone about his contacts with Sierra in his car.

Stolat,

Up until his arraignment he did not have counsel.
I am sure he is familiar with the Miranda Warning.
He should not have said a thing, guilty or innocent.

Personally, looking at the chronology and strategy of the DA, notably these added allegations for 2009 assaults, I think the DA was hoping for a confession or plea deal.

My speculation is that the DA has been running this very high profile investigation with the FBI and that the SO has played a very minor role and also acting as the go tos for this case.

the point about the 5th is that now that he has counsel and still not plea bargained to take a lesser kidnapping or trafficking charge (assuming his involvement) then the analysts who pointed that out this week are using that as a indicator of Sierra's morbidity probability.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:56 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Typo Positive wrote:
SweetT wrote:Typo positive,: And after 3 yrs that sketch she gave is still a dead ringer to our suspect. I can imagine if I was scared for my life and some man stared me down at my car window after a narrow escape, I would not be too likely to forget that mans face anytime soon. JMO

What sketch is that?
The chubby-cheeked guy in the hoodie?

Or the one that looks so dead-ringer it could have been drawn
straight from Antolin's current mugshot?


I think they are one in the same, I have only seen the hoodie one and someone actually did an overlay of it with the current mug shot and it was damn near a perfect match.

Yes, and the MySpace account photos (which was active mostly between 2008-2010) have a much chubbier Torres pictured. So yes, the chubbier one with the hoodie that looks like the chubbier Torres pictured in MySpace photo #7 and #6...thicker fuller cheeks.

And yet he went to work at a store that had the sketch on the door!
People who saw him everyday did not think he looked like the same dead ringer then, that so many people do now.

How do you explain that?

There was a sketch on the door? Is that in a recent or past article? It's not unreasonable to hypothesize or speculate as such, but I just would like to understand the facts as I had not yet read that. I'm quite open to being corrected if there is something new for me to glean. I explain it this way - people are very hesitant to allow themselves to dismiss the association of something negative with someone they like. One article came out that said he was liked by all -- all the employees, all the clients/shoppers. He was sociable - he liked to gab. I wonder what those past employees might say *now* about whether they suspected a likeness to the alleged poster on the door now that they also know he may be associated with another more severe crime.


Last edited by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sierra LaMar Missing 03/16/12

Post by Typo Positive on Tue May 29, 2012 1:57 pm

The Fifth Amendment is designed first and foremost as
a right to protect the innocent.

Not an escape clause for the guilty.

If you are innocent and wrongly arrested, the first thing you better do is keep your mouth shut.
The second thing. Get a good attorney to represent you to
the courts.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Stolat on Tue May 29, 2012 1:59 pm

Typo Positive wrote:The Fifth Amendment is designed first and foremost as
a right to protect the innocent.

Not an escape clause for the guilty.

If you are innocent and wrongly arrested, the first thing you better do is keep your mouth shut.

Agreed. And when one is wrongly accused of having contact with a missing girl, it would be to their benefit not to have DNA evidence to the contrary in their car.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Tamta on Tue May 29, 2012 2:00 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:
Stolat wrote:
SweetT wrote:
Julie wrote:Marc Klaas: I'm Not Convinced Sierra's Dead

Klaas says there are still plenty of reasons for him to believe the Morgan Hill teen is alive.


By Corinne Speckert
Email the author
5:45 am


Although authorities are currently treating the disappearance of Sierra LaMar as a kidnapping and murder, KlassKids Founder Marc Klaas isn’t convinced the public should be searching for a body.

Klaas said several factors lead him to believe Sierra could be alive: The suspect, Antolin Garcia-Torres, doesn’t have a history of violence against women or children aside from one case that was dropped, a weapon hasn’t been found, and a cause of death hasn’t been reported.

Read more:
http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/marc-klaas-im-not-convinced-sierras-dead-756c66af

I like Mark Klaas but I really fear statements like this will only serve to come back and bite the DA's office in the butt when trying to prosecute Torres'. In this case, I wish he would have just kept his opinions to himself. I would be upset if it were my daughter and I felt someone was saying things that would later weaken the case against a man who kidnapped and killed her. Seriously he should know better.

Agreed - and if anything, I winced when I read this because it just made him look stupid. The new witness came forward this weekend from the Safeway attacks - she's the only one of the 3 who was able to get away before he pulled a weapon on her (she got to her car & locked doors) and she was the one who provided the near identical twin composite sketch to police that bears a striking likeness to Torres. She says she got a good look of the perp who stared at her through her car window. She is claimin that she strongly believes Torres is the perp. So as soon as they link Torres to these violent attacks on women from Safeway, Klaas will have no ground to stand on in terms of prior violence against women.
Oddly, the statements Klaas made in this article caused me to rethink whether Sierra could still be alive. The comment Klaas made about AGT not having a history of violence against women or children, aside from one case that was dropped I feel is misleading. The charge of sex with a minor was dropped. However, he was charged with a felony battery and he was convicted of a reduced misdemeanor battery. AGT was ordered to take anger management classes. The victim was a man, but AGT does have a history and record of violence. Even knowing AGT has not been charged with the 2009 Safeway attacks, it is hard to not include them in the bigger picture. I can only assume Mr. Klaas chose to "legally" not include these assaults in AGT's history of violence against women.

I had previously left open the possibility Sierra could be alive and a victim of sex trafficking. In my opinion, the details in Sierra's purse, the 2009 assaults and the window into the life of AGT all combined do not fit trafficking. I do believe LE and the prosecution has not yet presented enough evidence that she is deceased. I can only speculate they will when the time is right.

Lash, I found it interesting that one of the reasons they feel she is dead is based on Torres taking the 5th. If he were involved and she were alive, he'd very likely bargain her location to downgrade a murder charge to kidnapping or even trafficking. But the fact he's taking the 5th and is not talking indicates he has either no rush to do so (because she is not alive and not being held against her will somewhere without food or water) or because he knows there is no plea bargain to negotiate. Might he be completely innocent? Anything's possible - but for me, he must first explain why he has deceived everyone about his contacts with Sierra in his car.

Stolat,

Up until his arraignment he did not have counsel.
I am sure he is familiar with the Miranda Warning.
He should not have said a thing, guilty or innocent.

Personally, looking at the chronology and strategy of the DA, notably these added allegations for 2009 assaults, I think the DA was hoping for a confession or plea deal.

My speculation is that the DA has been running this very high profile investigation with the FBI and that the SO has played a very minor role and also acting as the go tos for this case.

the point about the 5th is that now that he has counsel and still not plea bargained to take a lesser kidnapping or trafficking charge (assuming his involvement) then the analysts who pointed that out this week are using that as a indicator of Sierra's morbidity probability.

The whole topic of Sierra being deceased is bewildering between official "statements" and the media.

Well I would argue with their analysis I think.

At first I thought they (DA/LE) were going on the fact that she was an avid SMer and then it stopped 3/16- the SM as diary angle that other prosecuting teams have more recently been experimenting with. Smith said that and they inferred that, though did not state it directly, in the SOF.

I find it interesting that Sierra has been 'murdered' but is not 'presumed deceased' by the DA.

We keep hearing about these 'strong beliefs' and 'additional facts'.

Is she dead or assumed dead?

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

Post by Lash on Tue May 29, 2012 2:00 pm

Typo Positive wrote:At Stolat:

The reference to that intersection is pertaining to statements made that brought him up on their radar.
"He was seen on that route a fact that did not escape
LE notice".
Was that before or after they supposedly had his DNA in
her possessions?
I mean if before, why were they targeting him?
And if after, well if you've got his DNA and he drives to
work not avoiding the area as usual, it doesn't make sense really either.

If the lab doing the testing were already in trouble for
mishandling of evidence and wrongful convictions, I don't believe I'd be mistating any facts about that evidence in
public like I could lie because I'm LE.
There was no reason to lie about whether they were looking for the car or already had it.
The alleged perp knew they had his car.
So why lie to the public?
Why give a false picture of a car one day and an alleged
correct one the very next and say it is cctv footage that
conveniently has no date/time stamp?

If this were my case there wouldn't be a hint of lying to the public or making any false statements regarding the evidence, at all.
For any reason whatsoever.

BBM - I do believe they mislead the public, but they did not lie. They chose their words wisely. I also believe there was a reason and a hell of a good one. Smart. In my opinion they were looking for someone who could remember seeing this car in a specific location. A location that may point to the location of Sierra's body.

-------

http://www.realitychatter.com/viewtopic.forum?t=3881
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12

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