Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 4:28 pm

Not an expert and he didn't know that....oy my sphincter...what next
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 4:29 pm

I may take a break from Baden.....can't stand him
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 4:29 pm

Somehow I thought he would have a lenghty "Expert" CV
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 4:33 pm

I lost all respect for Badan during the Spector trial with his Ah Ha moment. He blew is reputation on that one.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 4:34 pm

Was just thinking about Baden. Everyone knows he is a media whore and available to the highest bidder. I wonder if this jury knows of his involvement in CA's case and if they will hold that against him?
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chester_from_THM on Thu May 24, 2012 4:50 pm

CB, I forget, what did Baden have to do with CA case? Other than being the husband of whats-her-name lawyer.

Although this guy is boring as can be, he is right a 4 x 5 bathroom is tiny.

She must have been very small to be able to be laid down in the bathroom and given CPR. Actually, with the toilet and vanity being part of that, how could she even fit. Weird.

So I guess it was Adam's story that he found her still on the toilet, with her head in the magazine rack and injuries on her neck.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 4:59 pm

2 toilets in tiny room = fact
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chester_from_THM on Thu May 24, 2012 5:06 pm

True, there was a bidet too. Those are v. uncommon, at least in my personal experience. And in such a tiny space.

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 5:09 pm

I think the fact that there is NO evidence of a struggle is a positive for the defense for sure.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 5:18 pm

IIRC, Baden gave his unofficial take on CA's case. He was in the media frequently commenting on it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 5:19 pm

medical personnel took the bedding to the hospital.... after fact cops arrived on scene and said the bed didnt look slept in...only 1 side looked slept in...

see the pattern.... bedding was removed but cops didnt know that so they assumed bed was not slept in by adam just his wife. cops assumed adam came home in the morning and a fight broke out then police said adam car was HOT and still made just driven noises but common sense says it took cops over 20 minutes to arrive...adam was on 911 for over 15 mins...and then there is the gated community cameras only showing wife coming home.

then we get everyone with a different version of what adam was wearing and the fact no one seemed to know adam had a twin brother....who arrived i think after linas body was removed which could account for a few things. seth was wearing like shorts n flip flops then went home and put on suit n cologne and went to hospital. a cop says adam was at hospital in a suit n cologne ...thought was very odd....

pattern of constant assumptions, mix up and no collection of evidence....IMO

cops made a lot of false assumptions imo
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 5:20 pm

Tess, I agree with you about a struggle. There would have been signs of a struggle, stuff moved, knocked over etc. And I would suspect, scuffs on the walls and injuries to the combatants.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 5:23 pm

if there was a struggle and clean up... then even more time would have gone by before 911 call therefore how could adams car be HOT.... at least 30 mins after 911 call.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 5:25 pm

Dr. Baden made a major slip up during the March 14, 2009 Geraldo ‘At Large’ when he stated that Caylee Anthony’s hair had chloroform in it. He was not speculating, nor asking a question. Dr. Baden said it as a statement of fact.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-fZsd--Y2Hk
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 5:27 pm

The states case just keeps getting worse and worse IMO
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 5:30 pm

I continue to be amazed that LE did nothing except assume. I hope this jury is a thinking jury. I get real scaaared when its in Fl. I comfort myself with the fact that I sometimes think and I live in fl.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 5:33 pm

Tess, no worries. You have proven over and over by your posts that you are a thinking person. In fact, a educated, well thinking person.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 5:39 pm

Thanks CB...we have a weird State. We are always in the news for some reason or another.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 5:41 pm

Yep you are....Maybe it's really not the "Happiest Place on Earth"
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 5:53 pm

Well, folks, I have to go have dinner. Hubby made us grilled steaks. Adam and company will do fine without me. Please post if I miss a bombshell.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 5:57 pm

Hmmmm, enjoy your dinner. My hubby grilled for me too.....hot dogs!! Shocked Can I introduce him to your hubby?
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 5:58 pm

The movement of the fluid in #AdamKaufman's bathroom was from the area in front of the toilet outward to the door coming out. keep in mind they did not collect nor test the bathmat which had fluids on it.....2 toilets in 1 small bathroom.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 5:59 pm

trial to resume tuesday
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by stark3923 on Thu May 24, 2012 6:04 pm

juror that has conflict may 30 is an alternate... judge needs to speak to juror n see if juror can rearrange.... judge concerned. see u tuesday 8:45am judge said...

fyi...trial will last another week.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Ann - Tx on Thu May 24, 2012 6:12 pm

tweet from InSession via RC Multi-Media Twitter box on Homepage:

InSession #AdamKaufman trial is in recess until Tuesday morning around 8:45 a.m. EST.
3 minutes ago · reply · retweet · favorite


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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 7:37 pm

stark3923 wrote:2 toilets in tiny room = fact

I thought for some reason that since this was an upscale home, there might have been one toliet & one bidet.

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 7:38 pm

Art...I think you are correct, 1 toilet, 1 bidet
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 7:39 pm

Art tart, there was a bidet and toilet. I think Starks point was that they are both the same size and it was a very small room. 4 x 5 I believe.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 8:07 pm

I felt tired around 2:00, I fell asleep for several hours, I have been catching up on the posts, I never do that. Thanks everyone for sharing.

Gosh, I didn't realize the bath was so small, it must have been one of those areas that had a door on it but opened into a larger bathroom area where the lavortory sinks were.

Bummer, no Court until Tuesday, that sucks.

I just caught up to Chester suggesting a bidet in the bathroom, shoulda known you guys had already said that! LOL!

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 8:24 pm

Art, the bathroom evidently was very tight. when Fire Capt. got there he had to order Adam out of the room so he had room to attend to lina. The expert for the defense on crime scene investigation said he went to the house in 2009 and measured the room. We were all pretty amazed at what LE didn't do.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 8:25 pm

The CSI Tech that the defense called said that his arm span was 6 feet (he measured) and if he stretched his arms out he could touch all for walls of the bathroom.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 8:29 pm

stark3923 wrote:the person who did the M.E. of Lina's body was i believe was an itern or student? who did the autopsy then left as this is a teaching facility? a supervisor was to take over but as we saw nothing happened for almost 2 years..except some lab work.... Lina's mom said she/they called more than 25 times. then when they filed a formal complaint the next day the ME ruled it a homicide. so for an entire 18 months there was no manner of death....

stark3923, this is just appalling imo. My family had to repeatedly call for 6 months, it's just terrible for the family, after all, to the ME's office, it's just another person awaiting completition of their autopsy, but to families, another layer of pain & grief, their loved one in a morgue.

Too, it has been stated that Lena was Jewish. I had many Jewish friends when I lived in Baton Rouge & they have different traditions on burying their loved ones. I feel terrible Lena's mom had to repeatedly call for information, then w/Dr. Himi's testimony, I can see why, it seems the ME's off is disorganized imo.

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 8:31 pm

I think that is the point I fell asleep Chickbutt & Tess, when the fire capt. was testifying.

what exactly was the prosecutor trying to get him to say or remember?

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 8:32 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:The CSI Tech that the defense called said that his arm span was 6 feet (he measured) and if he stretched his arms out he could touch all for walls of the bathroom.



I goofed with the size then I thought I heard 4x5 so take what I say with a grain of salt. 6x6 is still small not my minute bathroom
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 8:36 pm

The fire capt. stated he was the first one in the house, when he got upstairs Adam was trying to give his wife breaths for CPR. He was wearing BOXER SHORTS (not the suit and cologne) when he got there. He also gave a report on how many responders between FD, LE, EMT that were there. He stated when he was asking Adam about her medical history, he seem emotionless. He said he didn't notice if the bed had been slept in or not. That's not where his focus was.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 8:39 pm

Art, I missed the Fire chief too. I had to go to GrParents Picnic at PreSchool.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by suz1729 on Thu May 24, 2012 8:46 pm

Hi Everyone! I don't for 1 minute believe the mothers testimony today.In my opinion she clearly tailored her testimony in Adam's defense.No way I believe Lena had all those fainting spells shortly before she died.I follow this case on another site,where today, a friend of Lena and Adam made numerous postings.She said it was common knowledge that Adam and his family help to support the mother.(paraphrasing) She also said her and her circle of friends have doubts regarding Adam.The damage to her neck is a serious issue for them. I totally agree with her opinions.As a nurse,I can say,there is no way the deep muscle damage to Lena's neck was due to falling on a leather magazine holder. I think Lena's mother has a vested interest in Adam being found not guilty.Alot might have to do with the grandchildren as well as some sort of financial reasons.The family may have convinced her that the children have lost their mother,and would be even more devastating to lose their father if found guilty.Make no mistake, money talks, and Adam and his family appear to be well healed.I know the Adventura Lakes community very well, and Adam bought at the top of the market.The home may be alittle above average in square footage, but its the address that commands the high prices.Not to mention Adam is driving a 100k mercedes. ok enough about their status.I believe Adam is guilty of choking Lena in the heat of an argument (possibly with a belt)or...I may even consider auto-eroticism went to far (no nevermind) It's a damn shame this case was not handled properly. Adam was the last person with her, and she has severe damage to neck (deep internal)and it wasn't caused by falling on a magazine rack or from improper intubation. These are my opinions. please be gentle.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 8:47 pm

overview of the State's case:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/adam-kaufman-trial-prosecutors-rest-case/story?id=16423665

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 8:54 pm

Suz, you make some good points. We really know nothing about what goes on behind the scenes in peoples homes.
I too, am a nurse, and I am having a real hard time with the cause of her injuries. I had thought about erotic asphyxiation too, but ruled it out and I doubt they would be doing that in the little tiny bathroom. I don't think the injuries happened by falling on the magazine rack either. But, on the other hand, I know the pros doesn't have to show motive, but there doesn't seem to be anything that points to Adam. I don't see any evidence of a struggle. If I had to vote today, Adam would walk.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by angiefly2 on Thu May 24, 2012 9:01 pm

suz1729 wrote:Hi Everyone! I don't for 1 minute believe the mothers testimony today.In my opinion she clearly tailored her testimony in Adam's defense.No way I believe Lena had all those fainting spells shortly before she died.I follow this case on another site,where today, a friend of Lena and Adam made numerous postings.She said it was common knowledge that Adam and his family help to support the mother.(paraphrasing) She also said her and her circle of friends have doubts regarding Adam.The damage to her neck is a serious issue for them. I totally agree with her opinions.As a nurse,I can say,there is no way the deep muscle damage to Lena's neck was due to falling on a leather magazine holder. I think Lena's mother has a vested interest in Adam being found not guilty.Alot might have to do with the grandchildren as well as some sort of financial reasons.The family may have convinced her that the children have lost their mother,and would be even more devastating to lose their father if found guilty.Make no mistake, money talks, and Adam and his family appear to be well healed.I know the Adventura Lakes community very well, and Adam bought at the top of the market.The home may be alittle above average in square footage, but its the address that commands the high prices.Not to mention Adam is driving a 100k mercedes. ok enough about their status.I believe Adam is guilty of choking Lena in the heat of an argument (possibly with a belt)or...I may even consider auto-eroticism went to far (no nevermind) It's a damn shame this case was not handled properly. Adam was the last person with her, and she has severe damage to neck (deep internal)and it wasn't caused by falling on a magazine rack or from improper intubation. These are my opinions. please be gentle.

What site are you following and how do you know these are actually Lena and Adam's friends posting? Is there any way you could provide a link because I'm interested in reading these post. Thanks :)
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 9:04 pm

suz1729, Adam may well have murdered Lena, the problem for me, imo, the State has not proven it. Their incompetent collection of evidence & or I should say non collection, the lying CSI Tech, the lead detective that didn't testify for the State, & the unorganized ME that testified BUT didn't do the autopsy make it appear to be a poor investigation. Also, if Adam did chock Lena w/ a belt, the CSI tech DIDN't COLLECT any of the belts. Any of them could have had DNA on them, but hey, they didn't bother collecting them.

If I sat on this jury, at this point I would vote "not guilty." NOT BECAUSE I don't think he's not guilty, but because imo, the State, due to a shoddy investigation, didn't prove the case & the lying has cast doubt over their entire case. This case is an embarassment, the State doesn't seem passionate about the prosecuting Adam imo.

EVEN IF Adam were found guilty, there are so many avenues for appeal.

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 9:11 pm

suz1729 wrote:Hi Everyone! I don't for 1 minute believe the mothers testimony today.In my opinion she clearly tailored her testimony in Adam's defense.No way I believe Lena had all those fainting spells shortly before she died.I follow this case on another site,where today, a friend of Lena and Adam made numerous postings.She said it was common knowledge that Adam and his family help to support the mother.(paraphrasing) She also said her and her circle of friends have doubts regarding Adam.The damage to her neck is a serious issue for them. I totally agree with her opinions.As a nurse,I can say,there is no way the deep muscle damage to Lena's neck was due to falling on a leather magazine holder. I think Lena's mother has a vested interest in Adam being found not guilty.Alot might have to do with the grandchildren as well as some sort of financial reasons.The family may have convinced her that the children have lost their mother,and would be even more devastating to lose their father if found guilty.Make no mistake, money talks, and Adam and his family appear to be well healed.I know the Adventura Lakes community very well, and Adam bought at the top of the market.The home may be alittle above average in square footage, but its the address that commands the high prices.Not to mention Adam is driving a 100k mercedes. ok enough about their status.I believe Adam is guilty of choking Lena in the heat of an argument (possibly with a belt)or...I may even consider auto-eroticism went to far (no nevermind) It's a damn shame this case was not handled properly. Adam was the last person with her, and she has severe damage to neck (deep internal)and it wasn't caused by falling on a magazine rack or from improper intubation. These are my opinions. please be gentle.

I haven't seen any pictures but from reports from Jean Casarez she also says the damage to the neck is deep. I am just having a hard time with any motive for this case. There also has been talk that they did not have money. If he is in real estate, since the crash, that is not very lucrative right now and has not been for awhile. Evidently, he was home all night, not out. She was at a girl friend's house and came home. The reports are that their marriage was solid. The mother-in-law did favor Adam, but I really believe that she believes in him. the prosecution couldn't beat her up too bad, that wouldn't play well with the jury. I just think if she thought that Adam killed her daughter, she might not say such kind things about him. She might just have said the bare minimum. The 911 tape also seemed to reveal ( to me anyway) a distraught man trying to administer CPR to his wife. LE didn't do anything that I can discern. No samples of things, no pictures or examination of Adam, no testing of the car....nothing. If I were on this jury, the prosecution gave me nothing. An ME that took 18 months to give official cause of death. Lost (mis-placed) slides for 5 years and then finds them now??? Lina's family, her friends, and his family all back him. If there was a question with her friends, why didn't the prosecution have them testify? I think they will find him NG. 2nd degree murder has not been demonstrated at least to me.


Last edited by tesstruhart on Thu May 24, 2012 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I messed up my thought....old age)
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by suz1729 on Thu May 24, 2012 9:23 pm

The poster is greeneyes.She first comments on pg 73 and continues to post sporadically rest of day till court recessed. site is justice quest.hope I don't get in trouble for posting this.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by suz1729 on Thu May 24, 2012 9:23 pm

http://www.justicequest.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64680&page=73
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by suz1729 on Thu May 24, 2012 9:34 pm

To Tess, I hear what you're saying about the real estate bust,but don't forget there are short sales and foreclosures that are being bought up by investors,Canadians,and South Americans everyday.I have 1 friend who for the past 3 yrs has been making about 200k/yr selling these.( and I live in Central Florida) I also know someone in South Florida (where I used to live) who has been making a killing selling distressed homes.The homes down there are more money and more desirable. Some great buys!
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by suz1729 on Thu May 24, 2012 9:37 pm

I appreciate everyones response to my post.I agree the case has been botched and Adam will very likely be found NG.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 10:02 pm

suz1729, I enjoyed reading greeneyes comments, she seemed fair on her comments.

It seems that the couple possibly still had a good marriage, all couples argue from time to time, no one can know what really goes in behind closed doors but I am going to give them a pass on their marriage. It may well have been an argument that got out of hand but there is no indication there was a struggle.

Sadly imo, the truth is never going to be known because of the botched investigation as you point out suz1729.

Sometimes men are just needy, the old saying, "women mourn, men replace," seems appropriate in this case.

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 10:07 pm

Art, your old saying made me laugh, but, and this is a big but, you have to remember that Lina died in 2007. I forget that, since we are just now having the trial. So Adam has been single for 5 years. IMO, that is long enough to wait.
If you were referring to something in Greeneyes posts then I apologize, I haven't read it
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Guest on Thu May 24, 2012 10:09 pm

Chickenbutt, you are right, I do forget how long it has actually been since she died.

I thought I read that Seth made Adam go on a date a month after Lena died & he held her hand. Did I dream that? It's surely possible. LOL!

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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

Post by Chickenbutt on Thu May 24, 2012 10:12 pm

Seth and his wife wanted to get Adam out of the house and took him to dinner with another single friend. I don't know about the hand holding bit. Must have missed that. I don't see anything wrong with trying to get him out of the house and around other people.
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Re: Adam Kaufman Murder Trial (murder of Eleonora Kaufman - 11/7/07 - Aventura, FL)

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