Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Puzzler on Thu May 31, 2012 5:01 pm

Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Thu May 31, 2012 5:11 pm

Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 31, 2012 5:25 pm

Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
I've read about this, let me see if I can find some links.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 31, 2012 5:31 pm

Interesting reading about determining the age of a bloodstain. Note this is an abstract, which, I believe, indicates it was new research in 2005. Very interested to know if this caught on, was proven accurate over time, and if it is in widespread use. I'll continue looking for more recent information.

http://www.fsijournal.org/article/S0379-0738(04)00257-9/abstract
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 31, 2012 5:34 pm

Another article about determining bloodstain age: http://www.nasw.org/users/mslong/2010/2010_09/Bloodstains.htm
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Thu May 31, 2012 5:44 pm

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18670073/10000-added-to-isabel-celis-reward
$10,000 added to Isabel Celis reward

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -
In recent days, 88-CRIME received an additional $10,000 bringing the total reward for missing Isabel Celis up to $60,500.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Puzzler on Thu May 31, 2012 6:14 pm

Blood:

Whether the results have been released or not, I believe TPD "knows" whether it was Isabel's blood or not (they took blood samples from both mom and dad).

If it had been "fresh" blood, I believe TPD would have been all over it and something would have leaked into public knowledge.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanshin on Thu May 31, 2012 6:16 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
I've read about this, let me see if I can find some links.
Ellie, I am almost sure LE released that the blood was Isabel's, I will also try to find it.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu May 31, 2012 7:40 pm

nanshin wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
I've read about this, let me see if I can find some links.
Ellie, I am almost sure LE released that the blood was Isabel's, I will also try to find it.

@ Nanshin, I have read all the PDF's between yesterday and today and scoured several news agencies reports on the blood. I cant find anything that confirms that was Isa's blood, apparent blood stain that was tested is all thats been released/confirmed to my knowledge. If you come across link, please post~

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 31, 2012 8:01 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:why is there no news on Isa? shouldn't forensics be back by now...were the stains blood or not, was it Isa's? why are there no searches? why aren't the boys back with Sergio? is he even trying to work with CPS to get back visitation? the silence around this is maddening!!! they throw us a doc dump which gives just enough information to make everyone suspect-hasn't really cleared up anything for me. it is so frustrating...

Or medium reports regarding SC's boss' dream?

yeah i'm so glad they added every crazy person's dreams and visions to the PDF packets...and it's so important for me to know how many bathroom breaks LE needed to cover, those 500 pages could have been condensed to about a dozen-not sure how pages and pages of license plate numbers is going to help find Isa.

I'm sure LE is keeping track of who is coming and going to see who is hanging around without a reason. Sometime's the perp's will come back to the scene or have an unusual interest in what is going on.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 31, 2012 8:09 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:I've been a vocal defender of Sergio... more accurately a strong defender of "innocent until proven guilty." And I do still stand by that! But I have a question in my head that I can't get out, in light of the recent documents. I have not read the documents myself, so I submit this question for other points of view and further explanation.

If I understand correctly, the documents reveal that the room where Isabel was put to bed the night before she went missing, contained "apparent blood" on the floor at the time of the initial police search. Is that correct? Is there any more detail provided about that blood, quantity, where it was located, if fresh/old, etc.? If the blood is "apparent", then I assume that means it was visible and would have been obvious to anyone who went into that room, is this correct? Is "apparent" a specific term in police work (for instance, does that mean visible to the naked eye without luminol or additional tests?)

If unequivocally yes that the blood was visible and anyone would have seen it, then that puts Sergio's 911 call in an entirely different light, for me. My question is this: How in the hell was Sergio calm, emotionless and glib on his 911 call, IF HE HAD JUST SEEN BLOOD IN THE FLOOR OF HIS MISSING DAUGHTER'S ROOM?

I can't seem to get past this. I'm genuinely asking for some insight on how this can fit with an innocent Sergio. I don't normally like to guess, but if I don't personally maintain a belief in the POSSIBILITY of Sergio's innocence, then I will feel like I've lost my objectivity about the case.

The only answers I can come up with that don't flag him as guilty are:
1) The blood was from another source (or at another time), he already knew about it before she went missing, and thus it was not a cause for concern regarding Isabel. (Of course, in this case, the blood would still alert the police and be cause for further testing and investigation.)
2) The blood was in small quantity as to be missed by him.
3) The blood did actually require a more active search or testing/luminol to become obvious, and wasn't actually visible and obvious as the wording suggests.

Any other thoughts or information about this line of thinking? Thanks!

We use the word "apparant" in legal correspondence to basically mean "it looks like but has not been confirmed".

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 31, 2012 8:15 pm

Tamta wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:I've been a vocal defender of Sergio... more accurately a strong defender of "innocent until proven guilty." And I do still stand by that! But I have a question in my head that I can't get out, in light of the recent documents. I have not read the documents myself, so I submit this question for other points of view and further explanation.

If I understand correctly, the documents reveal that the room where Isabel was put to bed the night before she went missing, contained "apparent blood" on the floor at the time of the initial police search. Is that correct? Is there any more detail provided about that blood, quantity, where it was located, if fresh/old, etc.? If the blood is "apparent", then I assume that means it was visible and would have been obvious to anyone who went into that room, is this correct? Is "apparent" a specific term in police work (for instance, does that mean visible to the naked eye without luminol or additional tests?)

If unequivocally yes that the blood was visible and anyone would have seen it, then that puts Sergio's 911 call in an entirely different light, for me. My question is this: How in the hell was Sergio calm, emotionless and glib on his 911 call, IF HE HAD JUST SEEN BLOOD IN THE FLOOR OF HIS MISSING DAUGHTER'S ROOM?

I can't seem to get past this. I'm genuinely asking for some insight on how this can fit with an innocent Sergio. I don't normally like to guess, but if I don't personally maintain a belief in the POSSIBILITY of Sergio's innocence, then I will feel like I've lost my objectivity about the case.

The only answers I can come up with that don't flag him as guilty are:
1) The blood was from another source (or at another time), he already knew about it before she went missing, and thus it was not a cause for concern regarding Isabel. (Of course, in this case, the blood would still alert the police and be cause for further testing and investigation.)
2) The blood was in small quantity as to be missed by him.
3) The blood did actually require a more active search or testing/luminol to become obvious, and wasn't actually visible and obvious as the wording suggests.

Any other thoughts or information about this line of thinking? Thanks!

Ellie

I personally need more specifics on the blood.

Apparent blood has been observed in a few areas.
It's difficult to connect them with out further specifics.

I mean dogs injuring paws and female dogs in heat or with colitis can be a possible source if blood.

I just don't know either, so I'm going to wait.

Exactly. We also do not know where the apparent blood was or how much. We know that the stain on her bed tested negative. With kids, it could be red paint, koolaid, or anything.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 31, 2012 8:36 pm

Honeysage wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Honeysage wrote:yet Sergio will be making his 2nd court appearance on Monday for freaking dog licenses/vaccinations...rather than just pleading guilty and paying a fine but he won't go to court for his sons??? his daughter is missing and he hasn't been able to have contact with the boys for what-3 weeks now? what could they possibly be holding over him...

Why would he go to court for something he voluntarily agreed to? He agreed with the CPS order. That sort of indicates that apparently he feels he did something or contributed to something that would be prudent not to argue, whereas somehow he feels the contrary wtih his dogs.

but how long can a temporary agreement go on for? he is their father and has rights...he has not been arrested, or named POI. we have not been made aware of any rehab or therapy he may be undergoing...so what did he do/not do to make him more of a danger to be with his sons than not? and i understand we many never know since it's CPS and are dealing with privacy of minors-and i respect that-the boys must be going through an awfully confusing time. i just want things to move faster-i'm tired of this black hole that children and women seem to be falling through. following too many missing cases-i think i need a break.

In a couple of the reports from officers at the scene in the beginning, the officer repeatedly warned the family not to discuss the disappearance with each other. One officer even made sure to tell the officer releaving him to make sure to remind them not to discuss with each other. My thought, at this point, is that Sergio may not have been able to comply with that order. He may have continued to question or state "what happened" to the family. This would taint their memory and would be suggestive to the boys of what to say. I can understand that to an extent because it would be very hard for me not to talk about it hoping something would be said that would give me a lead. However, I think LE may have used CPS to remove Sergio until such a time that LE is convinced that they have the whole story from the boys without dads influence. It was noted in police reports that "Becky and the boys" were crying and upset. Sergio's way of dealing with the situation may have been anger instead and that could have a very negative affect on the boys and how they remember things.

I think it is odd, but not if you think about Sergio's possible affect on how the boys perceive and remember what happened or just their mental well-being in general. Many people under stress will lash out at innocent people around them for the smallest of things.

Guess I am saying that although Sergio acted strange and even suspect, I'm not quite ready to declare him guilty either.

I would like to hear what everyone thinks about PDF group 2 page 17.


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 31, 2012 9:55 pm

Tamta wrote:Ellie

I personally need more specifics on the blood.

Apparent blood has been observed in a few areas.
It's difficult to connect them with out further specifics.

I mean dogs injuring paws and female dogs in heat or with colitis can be a possible source if blood.

I just don't know either, so I'm going to wait.
Waiting is so hard to do! Thanks, Tamta.

Isn't the selective release of information strange? It must have a specific purpose. I know LE has no obligation to reveal anything to the public, and can even lie or mislead in order to further the investigation. I can't help but wonder what purpose this file dump has in the big scheme of things. But the blood information is specifically painful to hear about without details, and, imnsho, cruel.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ellie Tza on Thu May 31, 2012 10:17 pm

nanaof4 wrote:We use the word "apparant" in legal correspondence to basically mean "it looks like but has not been confirmed".
Thanks, that helps me understand better! Does that necessarily mean it was visible to the naked eye or does it not have any indication along those lines either way?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 31, 2012 10:40 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:Ellie

I personally need more specifics on the blood.

Apparent blood has been observed in a few areas.
It's difficult to connect them with out further specifics.

I mean dogs injuring paws and female dogs in heat or with colitis can be a possible source if blood.

I just don't know either, so I'm going to wait.
Waiting is so hard to do! Thanks, Tamta.

Isn't the selective release of information strange? It must have a specific purpose. I know LE has no obligation to reveal anything to the public, and can even lie or mislead in order to further the investigation. I can't help but wonder what purpose this file dump has in the big scheme of things. But the blood information is specifically painful to hear about without details, and, imnsho, cruel.

Personally, I believe the doc dump serves two purposes, it brings Isa back into the news and it provides documentation that LE is keeping detailed records and that they are following all leads. Not focusing on one suspect early on and also, shows they are keeping the area locked down (so to speak). Once a suspect is named, it will eliminate someone claiming a set-up or planted evidence. LE is attempting to squelch accusations of misconduct. JMO

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Thu May 31, 2012 10:45 pm

nanaof4 wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:Ellie

I personally need more specifics on the blood.

Apparent blood has been observed in a few areas.
It's difficult to connect them with out further specifics.

I mean dogs injuring paws and female dogs in heat or with colitis can be a possible source if blood.

I just don't know either, so I'm going to wait.
Waiting is so hard to do! Thanks, Tamta.

Isn't the selective release of information strange? It must have a specific purpose. I know LE has no obligation to reveal anything to the public, and can even lie or mislead in order to further the investigation. I can't help but wonder what purpose this file dump has in the big scheme of things. But the blood information is specifically painful to hear about without details, and, imnsho, cruel.

Personally, I believe the doc dump serves two purposes, it brings Isa back into the news and it provides documentation that LE is keeping detailed records and that they are following all leads. Not focusing on one suspect early on and also, shows they are keeping the area locked down (so to speak). Once a suspect is named, it will eliminate someone claiming a set-up or planted evidence. LE is attempting to squelch accusations of misconduct. JMO

Sensible and astute post Nana.

Love it.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Thu May 31, 2012 10:53 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:
nanaof4 wrote:We use the word "apparant" in legal correspondence to basically mean "it looks like but has not been confirmed".
Thanks, that helps me understand better! Does that necessarily mean it was visible to the naked eye or does it not have any indication along those lines either way?

In my world it does not implicate how it was discovered, just that it looks like it could be something. The doc dump does state that tests were conducted but the initial results were redacted. It also states some things were tested for semen and the results were negative. It almost leads one to believe that something redacted is a positive result or they would just say negative. However, LE may have a reason to want some people to believe a test was positive. Unfortunate for us, LE has to manipulate releases to psych out the guilty party in hopes they willl make a mistake or try to further cover by changing a story or trying to get rid of additional evidence.

Those of us who followed Caylee Anthony's case, have a major adjustment concerning evidence. We were spoiled by getting everything except personal info on witnesses. I have also noticed a problem with accuracy in media reporting in this case and especially in the Sierra LaMar case. One or two changed words can change the whole meaning of a statement, yet I see it happen often.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ann - Tx on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:08 am



http://www.kpho.com/story/18672221/tucson-pd-false-report-of-isabel-found
KPHO Phoenix, AZ 5/31/12

Tucson PD: False report of Isabel found

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Ellie Tza on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:24 am

Why do the topics get broken up into a new thread after 50 pages? Is this a technical limitation? (It seemed to handle going over 50 as far as I could tell.) Just curiosity.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:58 am

Ann - Tx wrote:

http://www.kpho.com/story/18672221/tucson-pd-false-report-of-isabel-found
KPHO Phoenix, AZ 5/31/12

Tucson PD: False report of Isabel found



false report, gave us false hope... it would have been really nice to have some good news that Isa was found and alive... good news would be refreshing for a change! Prayers that this will happen here.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:24 am

Ellie Tza wrote:Why do the topics get broken up into a new thread after 50 pages? Is this a technical limitation? (It seemed to handle going over 50 as far as I could tell.) Just curiosity.

Ellie! Ha! I noticed the same - except I had the misfortune of posting right in the middle of a page split. I had responded to someone's post and composed this rather lengthy link-filled reply and when I went to his "Send" a message popped up saying the thread had been locked (50+ pages) at which time it also wiped out my entire post!! I was like Arrrggghh! Now I guess i should copy before i hit send from now on...
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:09 am

Stolat wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:Why do the topics get broken up into a new thread after 50 pages? Is this a technical limitation? (It seemed to handle going over 50 as far as I could tell.) Just curiosity.

Ellie! Ha! I noticed the same - except I had the misfortune of posting right in the middle of a page split. I had responded to someone's post and composed this rather lengthy link-filled reply and when I went to his "Send" a message popped up saying the thread had been locked (50+ pages) at which time it also wiped out my entire post!! I was like Arrrggghh! Now I guess i should copy before i hit send from now on...

Happened to me too.
Screen came up and said topic was locked.

I thought I was banned!!! witch
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:23 am

Nana are you referring to police taking Becky's brother, Robert's phone which is mentioned on pg 17 in the pdf 2? I found it very curious but I just barely started reading the pdf's last night so I will wait to comment until I have read everything.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:22 pm

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18677012/decline-in-isabel-celis-volunteers-since-moving-to-new-location
Celis search sees decline in volunteers

The reason, they say, is because they're not as visible to the public anymore.

The volunteers are now working inside a room at the school for free and hope to keep 6-year-old Isabel Celis' face out there.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanshin on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:47 pm

color77 wrote:
nanshin wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
I've read about this, let me see if I can find some links.
Ellie, I am almost sure LE released that the blood was Isabel's, I will also try to find it.

@ Nanshin, I have read all the PDF's between yesterday and today and scoured several news agencies reports on the blood. I cant find anything that confirms that was Isa's blood, apparent blood stain that was tested is all thats been released/confirmed to my knowledge. If you come across link, please post~
Color 77, thanks for doing all that work. I started with the KGUN articles and thats as far as I got. Embarassed So much to do last night !!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Justice4all on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:48 pm

Ellie Tza wrote:Why do the topics get broken up into a new thread after 50 pages? Is this a technical limitation? (It seemed to handle going over 50 as far as I could tell.) Just curiosity.
It is a technical limitation. I switched the number of posts per page from 20 to 50, so now the thread locks after 20 pages. I'm not sure exactly what post number triggers the split. Once the thread splits, the locked thread has 990 posts. I think it's about 50 posts past the 990 mark that triggers the split, but I haven't been able to pinpoint it exactly.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:53 pm

Justice4all wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:Why do the topics get broken up into a new thread after 50 pages? Is this a technical limitation? (It seemed to handle going over 50 as far as I could tell.) Just curiosity.
It is a technical limitation. I switched the number of posts per page from 20 to 50, so now the thread locks after 20 pages. I'm not sure exactly what post number triggers the split. Once the thread splits, the locked thread has 990 posts. I think it's about 50 posts past the 990 mark that triggers the split, but I haven't been able to pinpoint it exactly.

Good to know - thanks J4A!! I'll make sure if I'm posting around the 20 page mark to save my text before hittin Send-- last time I did that while there was a page split going on in the background, i lost all my text.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:23 pm

nanshin wrote:
color77 wrote:
nanshin wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
I've read about this, let me see if I can find some links.
Ellie, I am almost sure LE released that the blood was Isabel's, I will also try to find it.

@ Nanshin, I have read all the PDF's between yesterday and today and scoured several news agencies reports on the blood. I cant find anything that confirms that was Isa's blood, apparent blood stain that was tested is all thats been released/confirmed to my knowledge. If you come across link, please post~
Color 77, thanks for doing all that work. I started with the KGUN articles and thats as far as I got. Embarassed So much to do last night !!

BBM

I started to do the same last night and gave up!!

Thanks so much Color!!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by foxrider on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:29 pm

If this has already been discussed please let me know...
Going on an abduction theory and the foot prints on the electrical box were toe pointing to the wall - as if climbing over - how would someone with a child exit the premises? Was there an easy access gate that would show signs of opening/closing?
TIA
(friend from before with new name...first post!)
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:55 pm

Tamta wrote:
nanshin wrote:
color77 wrote:
nanshin wrote:
Ellie Tza wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Puzzler wrote:Apparent blood:

Human blood?
Wet blood?
A drop/smear or more blood?


Apparent blood on shower curtain.

Pattern, origin, and age of blood in bedroom and car unspecified.

However areas that tested positive for luminol would indicate blood that had been cleaned up at one point, fresh or old.

If it is not fresh blood, I do not think that the age of blood can be forensically determined, right?
I've read about this, let me see if I can find some links.
Ellie, I am almost sure LE released that the blood was Isabel's, I will also try to find it.

@ Nanshin, I have read all the PDF's between yesterday and today and scoured several news agencies reports on the blood. I cant find anything that confirms that was Isa's blood, apparent blood stain that was tested is all thats been released/confirmed to my knowledge. If you come across link, please post~
Color 77, thanks for doing all that work. I started with the KGUN articles and thats as far as I got. Embarassed So much to do last night !!

BBM

I started to do the same last night and gave up!!

Thanks so much Color!!
Your welcome guys, I have to say in all the cases I read about and take interest in this one I am completely obsessed with. I just want this little girl to have a happy ending in the worse way. I have a daughter her same exact age with a strikingly erie resembalance, its very wierd, when I look at Isas picture I see my little baby girl... all missing children cases are sad, this one just happens to really get me.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:00 pm

foxrider wrote:If this has already been discussed please let me know...
Going on an abduction theory and the foot prints on the electrical box were toe pointing to the wall - as if climbing over - how would someone with a child exit the premises? Was there an easy access gate that would show signs of opening/closing?
TIA
(friend from before with new name...first post!)

good question...they would need to stand on something to get back out over the fence/wall and this time carrying a child. there is a wooden door that opens into the courtyard near front of house. on 911 call Becky says "the door was locked", but we don't know which door she was talking about. there is large double wooden gate in backyard, could be opened from inside but i personally believe it would show signs of being opened plus they wouldn't be able to latch it from the outside (at least i don't think so, these gates are usually made to be higher security so people can't open them from outside). they didn't bother to close her window so why bother with closing a gate (IF this was an abduction).
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:25 am

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/volunteers-work-to-keep-isabel-on-people-s-minds/article_786cc5e7-0769-5cbb-8aff-79fe948acd44.html



i'm not religious BUT it absolutely bothers me that Becky (and Sergio) use their rosary beads as lanyards...it is disrespectful and tasteless.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Chickenbutt on Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:24 pm

Honey, In Az that is very common. Lots of nurses, techs hospital employees used rosary beads as Lanyards. I agree with you, seems kinda disrespectful to me.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanaof4 on Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:56 pm

ishi wrote:Nana are you referring to police taking Becky's brother, Robert's phone which is mentioned on pg 17 in the pdf 2? I found it very curious but I just barely started reading the pdf's last night so I will wait to comment until I have read everything.

Yes. It has been a couple of days since I read it, but I thought it was strange that they described pics of the Celis house.

Another thing that I noticed in the docs was a report by one of Isa's brothers that her friend lived down the street. Wonder if Isa walked to her house or the girls played outside very much. You would think that they probably did. It must made me wonder about someone watching her playing outside. The McDonald neighbor situation still kind of stands out to me, too.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:16 pm

Ive been thinking about everything I read over the last couple days....mainly regarding the doc dump and all that was left out most importantly. I ve come to the conclusion that most of what they have released is not and cannot really be that signficant. I think they are still keeping thier best evidence very close to the vest and I believe most of what they released was planned just that way. I feel like Sergio & some family members cant be ruled out, and that the strangers make up an equally puzzling part of the scernario. I think they released what they did to see what if anything would come out of the info they allowed to be out there. I also noticed tonight tusconnews now took down thier little magnifying glass with Isas pic in the middle that said, "finding Isabel" off the main page, that was sad for me. I am glad kvoa still has it there. I wish that her name would remain in the spotlight, but this is dwindling and I think this case is going cold, I dont have alot of hope like I did before ! Just thinking out loud of course, but just making a point that I dont think TPD really shared that much after all.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:31 am

nanaof4 wrote:
ishi wrote:Nana are you referring to police taking Becky's brother, Robert's phone which is mentioned on pg 17 in the pdf 2? I found it very curious but I just barely started reading the pdf's last night so I will wait to comment until I have read everything.

Yes. It has been a couple of days since I read it, but I thought it was strange that they described pics of the Celis house.

Another thing that I noticed in the docs was a report by one of Isa's brothers that her friend lived down the street. Wonder if Isa walked to her house or the girls played outside very much. You would think that they probably did. It must made me wonder about someone watching her playing outside. The McDonald neighbor situation still kind of stands out to me, too.

Yes that was very odd. At location 2 Officer Randall took pics of Robert's phone and the way I read it from location 2 the east side of the victim's residence was visible from the master bedroom at location 2. The sentence begins with Unit and then the address is blacked out. Unit suggests an apartment to me. And whoever lived there was known to the family because Robert was there and had his blackberry photographed and then collected as evidence. Robert Rodriguez lives on East Blacklidge which is north of the Celis home so it doesn't seem he would have a view of the Celis home from his bedroom window. But Justin Mastromarino now has an apt on East Broadway so I wonder if it is possible he had a view of the Celis home from his bedroom window?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:25 am

I found all the bedroom descriptions of southeast and middle east interesting and contradictory. The northeast bedroom is obviously the boy's room. But in the southeast bedroom there was handwriting on the wall, doorjamb and inside wall of the closet. Middle east bedroom no bodily fluids located and no further processing required. Southeast bedroom window screen from the exterior of the southeast bedroom window and a hairbrush from a tupperware bin on top of the dresser was collected along with a toothbrush from the east bathroom. Photographs taken of the middle east bedroom and the window screen on the ground on the east side of the residence and views of the apparent blood on the floor and a latent print on the interior window sill on the middle east bedroom window. No semen on the bedding in the middle east bedroom. Middle east bedroom has a toy shelf and books on the toy shelf and the dresser nearest the window has a mirror. Are they speaking of one room or two different rooms? Even the measurements done in the house refer to NE, SE and Middle East bedrooms. Is the room marked Den on the floor plan the SE bedroom with access to the back porch?

Even Sergio's statement is contradictory. On pg 63 pdf 1 Sergio stated her window was closed when he kissed her goodnight. When he went to wake her up he found her bed empty and began checking the house. Then they began checking the interior and exterior of the house and one of the boys informed him that (long black out here possibly Isabel's?) window screen was on the ground outside her window and that her window was wide open.

On pg 3 pdf 6 Officer Orozco states when Mr. Celis entered ?'s bedroom (she did not share it with anyone) ? was not there. After alerting his sons that she was not in the house, Sergio discovers that the (longish black out here maybe said middle?) bedroom window was open and the window screen was off the window and damaged.

So confusing! And why wouldn't Sergio not notice an open window missing a screen in her room when he went in to wake her up? He noticed the window was closed when he kissed her goodnight. Makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:11 pm

Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:21 pm

One more thing then I have to get outside and get some yardwork done. What is up with all the bedding they chased and collected? One officer sent to secure a multi-colored blanket on an onramp of the I-10 and detectives photographed it and took it into evidence. Then there is the pink blanket on the Pantano bridge sidewalk taken into evidence and the pink bedskirt and bedsheet in the wash near Downing Lane and Wilshire Drive. And the pillow near a telephone pole on N Wilmot. Seems hinky. I would bet a dollar some of her bedding was missing and I would bet another dollar it was a blanket.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanshin on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:46 pm

ishi wrote:Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
According to N McDonald posting on Blink on Crime on June 1 @ #31 he was wearing a tank top. There are several posts from McDonald on Blink's blog.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:29 pm

ishi wrote:I found all the bedroom descriptions of southeast and middle east interesting and contradictory. The northeast bedroom is obviously the boy's room. But in the southeast bedroom there was handwriting on the wall, doorjamb and inside wall of the closet. Middle east bedroom no bodily fluids located and no further processing required. Southeast bedroom window screen from the exterior of the southeast bedroom window and a hairbrush from a tupperware bin on top of the dresser was collected along with a toothbrush from the east bathroom. Photographs taken of the middle east bedroom and the window screen on the ground on the east side of the residence and views of the apparent blood on the floor and a latent print on the interior window sill on the middle east bedroom window. No semen on the bedding in the middle east bedroom. Middle east bedroom has a toy shelf and books on the toy shelf and the dresser nearest the window has a mirror. Are they speaking of one room or two different rooms? Even the measurements done in the house refer to NE, SE and Middle East bedrooms. Is the room marked Den on the floor plan the SE bedroom with access to the back porch?

Even Sergio's statement is contradictory. On pg 63 pdf 1 Sergio stated her window was closed when he kissed her goodnight. When he went to wake her up he found her bed empty and began checking the house. Then they began checking the interior and exterior of the house and one of the boys informed him that (long black out here possibly Isabel's?) window screen was on the ground outside her window and that her window was wide open.

On pg 3 pdf 6 Officer Orozco states when Mr. Celis entered ?'s bedroom (she did not share it with anyone) ? was not there. After alerting his sons that she was not in the house, Sergio discovers that the (longish black out here maybe said middle?) bedroom window was open and the window screen was off the window and damaged.

So confusing! And why wouldn't Sergio not notice an open window missing a screen in her room when he went in to wake her up? He noticed the window was closed when he kissed her goodnight. Makes no sense whatsoever.

I always found that quite contradictory -- he notices something mundane like the closed window but he completely MISSES something odd like a fully open window with no screen - which would allow full access to outside and be noticeably visible. However, it doesn't baffle me that much because I think the reason he missed it was because he already knew about it and wanted an objective witness to think they were the first to discover it.

Also, writing on the doorjamb... I'd completely bet that is growth marks. That's exactly where we track my daughter's height over the years-- on the doorjamb.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:32 pm

nanshin wrote:
ishi wrote:Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
According to N McDonald posting on Blink on Crime on June 1 @ #31 he was wearing a tank top. There are several posts from McDonald on Blink's blog.

His girlfriend that he lives with would know whether or not he has a t-shirt that has "Car World" on it. That should be simple to confirm/disprove.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:20 pm

Well according to LinkedIn he works at Buck's Automotive so it is very conceivable he would have a shirt that has "Car World" on it.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:34 pm

Stolat wrote:
nanshin wrote:
ishi wrote:Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
According to N McDonald posting on Blink on Crime on June 1 @ #31 he was wearing a tank top. There are several posts from McDonald on Blink's blog.

His girlfriend that he lives with would know whether or not he has a t-shirt that has "Car World" on it. That should be simple to confirm/disprove.

@ Stolat, thanks for posting. I throughly enjoyed reading this supposed exchanged between the man claiming to be N McDonald and Blink... Interesting. snipped :http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/05/29/isabel-celis-abduction-breaking-news-docs-show-blood-in-bedroom-police-eye-family-and-neighbor/comment-page-2/#comments

Nathan McDonald says: June 1, 2012 at 3:03 pm

I’m not going to give you my address, I’m at work. Given what I’ve seen so far with how information is handled on this sight, I am very uncomfortable offering any more. My other response was at home. Both are in the city of Tucson.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it cordial. You must understand my position. If I were to channel 1/10th of the emotion the false accusations leveled at me elicits, we would be having different conversations.

As well, I feel that the actions taken by this site and the contributors are beyond rude, they are offensive to common courtesy and logic. This is essentially a collection of individuals with very little information stoking the flames of disinformation. The largest foe of the truth is disinformation, and this site has been fanning that fire. It’s reckless.

It is also comical to me that on a site that is perpetuating unsubstantiated rumors and speculations, suddenly verification of my identity is important. The one thing you are keen on verifying is the identity of the man defending himself. Backtracing my IP address before posting my comments is more important than taking the time to make sure you are not mistaken when suggesting to the entire world that I’ve possibly abducted a child? What kind of perverse set of priorities is that?

I understand my tone, but I won’t apologize for it. This is my life, I will not sit casually by while strangers try to wreck it with lies.

I am not interested in offering any details regarding that morning or day. I have not offered information to anyone regarding the events because I don’t want to compromise the investigation at all. I have continued to do so at the expense of my pride, as others have taken to guessing and accusing. This is because I cannot sleep at night thinking that by protecting myself and compromising the investigation, I’ve compromised the safety of a child.

You will do what you will do. But I can tell you first hand that what you are doing is reckless and benefits no one.
BLINKS RESPONSE
1. At NO TIME, did I make an accusation against you. Period. Respectfully, given your patterns that morning, how can you possibly be upset that a PUBLIC RELEASE of same, would call you into question, as you claimed to search the EXACT same wash where evidence was RETRIEVED in this case, minutes later.

2. You are right, you did encounter more than one LEO that morning, so under that auspice I will assume this was you, and you are right, that report is forthcoming, as are the ones about your interview, or at least, I am aware of them.

3. I have attempted to corroborate your comment that Sergio Jr rang your doorbell “repeatedly” with TPD, and have not been successful.

4. Im sorry, did I understand you correctly- you came here to clear things up, but do not want to compromise the investigation? You feel there are important and possibly erroneous facts you are offended by but we should what, exactly?

5. Name one lie. Name one mistruth that is not an opinion, if it can be substantiated, I will absolutely correct it without pause. I am not sure how you do that with your fence straddling position, and the fact that you have not referred to Isabel by name whatsoever, but I am open.

6. Again, at not time did I allege you abducted the child you cannot refer to by name although you were compelled to look for her for hours, and endure this ” scrutiny”.

7. While we are at it, and this is a general question- no malice intended. Why were you driving the Jetta that morning and then for the next several days driving the Taurus?

“The largest foe of the truth”- Seriously?

The largest foe of the truth is A liar, I respond to your query- quote me.

B

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:05 pm

color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
nanshin wrote:
ishi wrote:Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
According to N McDonald posting on Blink on Crime on June 1 @ #31 he was wearing a tank top. There are several posts from McDonald on Blink's blog.

His girlfriend that he lives with would know whether or not he has a t-shirt that has "Car World" on it. That should be simple to confirm/disprove.

@ Stolat, thanks for posting. I throughly enjoyed reading this supposed exchanged between the man claiming to be N McDonald and Blink... Interesting. snipped :http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/05/29/isabel-celis-abduction-breaking-news-docs-show-blood-in-bedroom-police-eye-family-and-neighbor/comment-page-2/#comments

Nathan McDonald says: June 1, 2012 at 3:03 pm

I’m not going to give you my address, I’m at work. Given what I’ve seen so far with how information is handled on this sight, I am very uncomfortable offering any more. My other response was at home. Both are in the city of Tucson.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it cordial. You must understand my position. If I were to channel 1/10th of the emotion the false accusations leveled at me elicits, we would be having different conversations.

As well, I feel that the actions taken by this site and the contributors are beyond rude, they are offensive to common courtesy and logic. This is essentially a collection of individuals with very little information stoking the flames of disinformation. The largest foe of the truth is disinformation, and this site has been fanning that fire. It’s reckless.

It is also comical to me that on a site that is perpetuating unsubstantiated rumors and speculations, suddenly verification of my identity is important. The one thing you are keen on verifying is the identity of the man defending himself. Backtracing my IP address before posting my comments is more important than taking the time to make sure you are not mistaken when suggesting to the entire world that I’ve possibly abducted a child? What kind of perverse set of priorities is that?

I understand my tone, but I won’t apologize for it. This is my life, I will not sit casually by while strangers try to wreck it with lies.

I am not interested in offering any details regarding that morning or day. I have not offered information to anyone regarding the events because I don’t want to compromise the investigation at all. I have continued to do so at the expense of my pride, as others have taken to guessing and accusing. This is because I cannot sleep at night thinking that by protecting myself and compromising the investigation, I’ve compromised the safety of a child.

You will do what you will do. But I can tell you first hand that what you are doing is reckless and benefits no one.
BLINKS RESPONSE
1. At NO TIME, did I make an accusation against you. Period. Respectfully, given your patterns that morning, how can you possibly be upset that a PUBLIC RELEASE of same, would call you into question, as you claimed to search the EXACT same wash where evidence was RETRIEVED in this case, minutes later.

2. You are right, you did encounter more than one LEO that morning, so under that auspice I will assume this was you, and you are right, that report is forthcoming, as are the ones about your interview, or at least, I am aware of them.

3. I have attempted to corroborate your comment that Sergio Jr rang your doorbell “repeatedly” with TPD, and have not been successful.

4. Im sorry, did I understand you correctly- you came here to clear things up, but do not want to compromise the investigation? You feel there are important and possibly erroneous facts you are offended by but we should what, exactly?

5. Name one lie. Name one mistruth that is not an opinion, if it can be substantiated, I will absolutely correct it without pause. I am not sure how you do that with your fence straddling position, and the fact that you have not referred to Isabel by name whatsoever, but I am open.

6. Again, at not time did I allege you abducted the child you cannot refer to by name although you were compelled to look for her for hours, and endure this ” scrutiny”.

7. While we are at it, and this is a general question- no malice intended. Why were you driving the Jetta that morning and then for the next several days driving the Taurus?

“The largest foe of the truth”- Seriously?

The largest foe of the truth is A liar, I respond to your query- quote me.

B

LMAO - seriously??? And blink responded to this guy thinking this was Nate McDonald?? I'm sorry, but if a guy could seriously spell and use in a sentence words like "unsubstantiated" and "perpetuated" and even knew the hell what it was to "backtrace" an IP address -- I seriously DOUBT he'd be living with his parents still at age 30+ and working at Buck's Auto.

Come'on - -are they kidding me? I feel sorry for Blink and whoever else is wasting their time thinking this guy is for real and even bothering to interract with them. Entertaining? sure? Believable? LMAO!! Laughing
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:08 pm

Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
nanshin wrote:
ishi wrote:Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
According to N McDonald posting on Blink on Crime on June 1 @ #31 he was wearing a tank top. There are several posts from McDonald on Blink's blog.

His girlfriend that he lives with would know whether or not he has a t-shirt that has "Car World" on it. That should be simple to confirm/disprove.

@ Stolat, thanks for posting. I throughly enjoyed reading this supposed exchanged between the man claiming to be N McDonald and Blink... Interesting. snipped :http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/05/29/isabel-celis-abduction-breaking-news-docs-show-blood-in-bedroom-police-eye-family-and-neighbor/comment-page-2/#comments

Nathan McDonald says: June 1, 2012 at 3:03 pm

I’m not going to give you my address, I’m at work. Given what I’ve seen so far with how information is handled on this sight, I am very uncomfortable offering any more. My other response was at home. Both are in the city of Tucson.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it cordial. You must understand my position. If I were to channel 1/10th of the emotion the false accusations leveled at me elicits, we would be having different conversations.

As well, I feel that the actions taken by this site and the contributors are beyond rude, they are offensive to common courtesy and logic. This is essentially a collection of individuals with very little information stoking the flames of disinformation. The largest foe of the truth is disinformation, and this site has been fanning that fire. It’s reckless.

It is also comical to me that on a site that is perpetuating unsubstantiated rumors and speculations, suddenly verification of my identity is important. The one thing you are keen on verifying is the identity of the man defending himself. Backtracing my IP address before posting my comments is more important than taking the time to make sure you are not mistaken when suggesting to the entire world that I’ve possibly abducted a child? What kind of perverse set of priorities is that?

I understand my tone, but I won’t apologize for it. This is my life, I will not sit casually by while strangers try to wreck it with lies.

I am not interested in offering any details regarding that morning or day. I have not offered information to anyone regarding the events because I don’t want to compromise the investigation at all. I have continued to do so at the expense of my pride, as others have taken to guessing and accusing. This is because I cannot sleep at night thinking that by protecting myself and compromising the investigation, I’ve compromised the safety of a child.

You will do what you will do. But I can tell you first hand that what you are doing is reckless and benefits no one.
BLINKS RESPONSE
1. At NO TIME, did I make an accusation against you. Period. Respectfully, given your patterns that morning, how can you possibly be upset that a PUBLIC RELEASE of same, would call you into question, as you claimed to search the EXACT same wash where evidence was RETRIEVED in this case, minutes later.

2. You are right, you did encounter more than one LEO that morning, so under that auspice I will assume this was you, and you are right, that report is forthcoming, as are the ones about your interview, or at least, I am aware of them.

3. I have attempted to corroborate your comment that Sergio Jr rang your doorbell “repeatedly” with TPD, and have not been successful.

4. Im sorry, did I understand you correctly- you came here to clear things up, but do not want to compromise the investigation? You feel there are important and possibly erroneous facts you are offended by but we should what, exactly?

5. Name one lie. Name one mistruth that is not an opinion, if it can be substantiated, I will absolutely correct it without pause. I am not sure how you do that with your fence straddling position, and the fact that you have not referred to Isabel by name whatsoever, but I am open.

6. Again, at not time did I allege you abducted the child you cannot refer to by name although you were compelled to look for her for hours, and endure this ” scrutiny”.

7. While we are at it, and this is a general question- no malice intended. Why were you driving the Jetta that morning and then for the next several days driving the Taurus?

“The largest foe of the truth”- Seriously?

The largest foe of the truth is A liar, I respond to your query- quote me.

B

LMAO - seriously??? And blink responded to this guy thinking this was Nate McDonald?? I'm sorry, but if a guy could seriously spell and use in a sentence words like "unsubstantiated" and "perpetuated" and even knew the hell what it was to "backtrace" an IP address -- I seriously DOUBT he'd be living with his parents still at age 30+ and working at Buck's Auto.

Come'on - -are they kidding me? I feel sorry for Blink and whoever else is wasting their time thinking this guy is for real and even bothering to interract with them. Entertaining? sure? Believable? LMAO!! Laughing

I was thinking the same thing, but early in the posts Blinks claims to have tracked his location/ip and made sure he was correctly responding to the "real N McDonalad" and thats why blink waited to resond. LOL for sure, I just dont believe it either, I dont think, ha ha I never say never Very Happy

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:13 pm

color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
nanshin wrote:
ishi wrote:Nathan McDonald was wearing a plain white t-shirt and shorts when he came up out of the park and Officer Robinson spoke with him. But the description Chris Lutzelberger gave of the man sitting on an electrical box in the alley behind his house was of a male wearing a white shirt with the words "Car World" across the front in black letters.

Chris Lutzelberger lives on South Essex Lane south of E 14th Street. Officer Meador on pg 65 of pdf 3 was notified by K9 officers that they had found (long black out here). The items were located in an alley just east of South Essex and just south of East 14th. Officer Meador stood by the items and ensured they were collected undisturbed. Officer Bustamante arrived and photographed the items as discovered in place then collected them.

That would be the alley that runs behind Chris Lutzelberger's home. So there is an unidentified male roaming that alley earlier and Nathan McDonald who parked on East 14th roaming around searching the washes at Wilshire Heights Park across the street from South Essex.

Wonder what they found in the alley?
According to N McDonald posting on Blink on Crime on June 1 @ #31 he was wearing a tank top. There are several posts from McDonald on Blink's blog.

His girlfriend that he lives with would know whether or not he has a t-shirt that has "Car World" on it. That should be simple to confirm/disprove.

@ Stolat, thanks for posting. I throughly enjoyed reading this supposed exchanged between the man claiming to be N McDonald and Blink... Interesting. snipped :http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/05/29/isabel-celis-abduction-breaking-news-docs-show-blood-in-bedroom-police-eye-family-and-neighbor/comment-page-2/#comments

Nathan McDonald says: June 1, 2012 at 3:03 pm

I’m not going to give you my address, I’m at work. Given what I’ve seen so far with how information is handled on this sight, I am very uncomfortable offering any more. My other response was at home. Both are in the city of Tucson.

I can appreciate your desire to keep it cordial. You must understand my position. If I were to channel 1/10th of the emotion the false accusations leveled at me elicits, we would be having different conversations.

As well, I feel that the actions taken by this site and the contributors are beyond rude, they are offensive to common courtesy and logic. This is essentially a collection of individuals with very little information stoking the flames of disinformation. The largest foe of the truth is disinformation, and this site has been fanning that fire. It’s reckless.

It is also comical to me that on a site that is perpetuating unsubstantiated rumors and speculations, suddenly verification of my identity is important. The one thing you are keen on verifying is the identity of the man defending himself. Backtracing my IP address before posting my comments is more important than taking the time to make sure you are not mistaken when suggesting to the entire world that I’ve possibly abducted a child? What kind of perverse set of priorities is that?

I understand my tone, but I won’t apologize for it. This is my life, I will not sit casually by while strangers try to wreck it with lies.

I am not interested in offering any details regarding that morning or day. I have not offered information to anyone regarding the events because I don’t want to compromise the investigation at all. I have continued to do so at the expense of my pride, as others have taken to guessing and accusing. This is because I cannot sleep at night thinking that by protecting myself and compromising the investigation, I’ve compromised the safety of a child.

You will do what you will do. But I can tell you first hand that what you are doing is reckless and benefits no one.
BLINKS RESPONSE
1. At NO TIME, did I make an accusation against you. Period. Respectfully, given your patterns that morning, how can you possibly be upset that a PUBLIC RELEASE of same, would call you into question, as you claimed to search the EXACT same wash where evidence was RETRIEVED in this case, minutes later.

2. You are right, you did encounter more than one LEO that morning, so under that auspice I will assume this was you, and you are right, that report is forthcoming, as are the ones about your interview, or at least, I am aware of them.

3. I have attempted to corroborate your comment that Sergio Jr rang your doorbell “repeatedly” with TPD, and have not been successful.

4. Im sorry, did I understand you correctly- you came here to clear things up, but do not want to compromise the investigation? You feel there are important and possibly erroneous facts you are offended by but we should what, exactly?

5. Name one lie. Name one mistruth that is not an opinion, if it can be substantiated, I will absolutely correct it without pause. I am not sure how you do that with your fence straddling position, and the fact that you have not referred to Isabel by name whatsoever, but I am open.

6. Again, at not time did I allege you abducted the child you cannot refer to by name although you were compelled to look for her for hours, and endure this ” scrutiny”.

7. While we are at it, and this is a general question- no malice intended. Why were you driving the Jetta that morning and then for the next several days driving the Taurus?

“The largest foe of the truth”- Seriously?

The largest foe of the truth is A liar, I respond to your query- quote me.

B

LMAO - seriously??? And blink responded to this guy thinking this was Nate McDonald?? I'm sorry, but if a guy could seriously spell and use in a sentence words like "unsubstantiated" and "perpetuated" and even knew the hell what it was to "backtrace" an IP address -- I seriously DOUBT he'd be living with his parents still at age 30+ and working at Buck's Auto.

Come'on - -are they kidding me? I feel sorry for Blink and whoever else is wasting their time thinking this guy is for real and even bothering to interract with them. Entertaining? sure? Believable? LMAO!! Laughing

I was thinking the same thing, but early in the posts Blinks claims to have tracked his location/ip and made sure he was correctly responding to the "real N McDonalad" and thats why blink waited to resond. LOL for sure, I just dont believe it either, I dont think, ha ha I never say never Very Happy

First off, to track down an IP address, you have to be using a static IP -- there's some other specifics, but that's the basic gist. However, if you're using an ISP with a roaming IP as quite a lot if ISP's do - there's no way to track it down to a specific household, just the region/city perhaps. Sure Blink may have tracked it back down to Tucson - but that does not prove it to be McDonald -- perhaps an acquaintance of McDonals (a clearly educated non-auto detailing one) who may be acting out some vigilantism on his behalf. *very* possibly even written by a woman. and perhaps an involved one at that- very involved.

...what man who works on cars uses the word "cordial" ??? That is a very female-rooted word. Very effeminate word. At least not one I can imagine being used by someone who'd wear a logo'd shirt for an automotive dealership.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:51 pm

Police On Isabel: There Are Suspects


BBM

Six weeks have passed since 6-year-old Isabel Celis was reported missing from her Tucson home and police have released few details on the case lately. Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor says despite the lack of information to the public, officers and investigators continue working on the case.

“Right now we’re at a point where we are following investigative paths that keep us quite busy,” Villaseñor says. “We think that this was an abduction of some kind, so obviously that infers that there are suspects that we are looking at, or people of interest that we're looking at.”

Villaseñor did not reveal who those suspects are. Rebecca and Sergio Celis, the missing girl’s parents, have not been ruled out as suspects in her disappearance.


http://www.azpm.org/news/story/2012/6/4/1558-police-on-missing-tucson-girl-there-are-suspects/
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:36 am

Tamta wrote:Police On Isabel: There Are Suspects


BBM

Six weeks have passed since 6-year-old Isabel Celis was reported missing from her Tucson home and police have released few details on the case lately. Tucson Police Chief Roberto Villaseñor says despite the lack of information to the public, officers and investigators continue working on the case.

“Right now we’re at a point where we are following investigative paths that keep us quite busy,” Villaseñor says. “We think that this was an abduction of some kind, so obviously that infers that there are suspects that we are looking at, or people of interest that we're looking at.”

Villaseñor did not reveal who those suspects are. Rebecca and Sergio Celis, the missing girl’s parents, have not been ruled out as suspects in her disappearance.


http://www.azpm.org/news/story/2012/6/4/1558-police-on-missing-tucson-girl-there-are-suspects/

Tamta thank you for posting this story. I find the statements that they are following investigative leads that are keeping them BUSY .... abduction of SOME KIND.... and that the parents have not been ruled out after 6 weeks very odd. The article also states "Since the investigation began, Villaseñor says he has looked across the country at different missing children cases and looked into how some of the more well-known cases were handled.
“I’m very proud that so many considerations were taken into play right from the beginning with shutting down landfill routes, getting the FBI involved, bringing in the dogs," he said. "All the things that you would want from a thorough investigation were conducted by the Tucson Police Department in partnership with other agencies.”"

I really do hope that they are doing more than patting themselves on the back and that Isa will be found. Since it seems that in cases such as these the parents are first suspects and then they work outwards and the parents have not been ruled out .... Have they started to work outwards? crystal ball Do they have anything concrete yet? (such as in Sierra's case where it was kept close to the chest) lol Hey LE give us dogs a bone.. and something for us to work with! Razz
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

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