Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:02 am

justanopinion wrote:
color77 wrote:Tamata, I have felt that that way from week 1. The silence is deafening from TPD and Celis camps...they know something!



I agree, so if I let my imagination run absolutely wild... could that be why they have split the family ... hoping that whomever has Isa will either come for Sergio and release Isa when they have him.. or return her to mom if Sergio is not around??? or....or ...... The speculation runs amuck... crystal ball

Even though I do not nor can not entertain that Isabel was the victim
Of abuse or intentional death in her home I feel fine asserting that someone(s) in that immediate family knows something and that her brothers know that or are witnesses themselves in some aspect and that's why SC is not allowed contact with them.

When LE made the recent comment "We WILL find out", I could not help but feel they were addressing "someone".

This appears to be a case with a lot of circumstantial evidence that has required the exploration of a few different scenarios, which we can infer from the doc dump, although by now I bet that evidence favors one scenario and who the players are.

Im sure it will be a while before we know the nexus of where some of this evidence meets.

I bet it will be strategically released as in Ayla Reynolds case.

This case reminds me of Ayla's case, where LE has some decent forensics and is working on building a case but waiting on that one break that can illustrate the culpability of their "suspect" or the 'political' go ahead to move forward without locating Isabel.

I speculate more people were in the house the night before Ilsa disappeared so I'm not going to hold that SC is the only one with knowledge or solely responsible, just because of the No Contact AGREEMENT not Order.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:09 am

art tart wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Calypso wrote:Good post art tart, you bring up excellent points and unfortunately, there aren't intelligent answers.

Any parent with a missing child would jump at the opportunity for air time.

Flyers only go so far if you see them in passing, air time, gets broadcast into people's homes, businesses and reaches millions. Why this isn't happening here and these parents aren't jumping on this, taking advantage of EVERY Possible Opportunity to reach Isabel and alleged kidnappers/intruders/perps just amazes me and boggles the mind.

Are these people in some sick, weird way at peace over the circumstances?

The family's absence from the public combined with no searches, and no amber alert for a missing 6 year old?

IMO, there must be evidence indicating that someone knows where Isabel is.

Tamata, this is the thing that is so disturbing in many many of these cases of missing children, LE has knowledge of the probable murderer, but they don't have enough evidence to bring charges, the cases grow cold. Too, many of the missing children aren't recovered, I hate to think the murderer's are hiding the remains of children better than just dumping them as KC did.

Kyron has been gone for 2 years yet Terri remains free. LE never admits it, but it seems his case is cold, Desiree has brought much needed National attention back to his case by filing a Civil suit against Terri. Baby Lisa Irwin is another one, basically a cold case but LE would not admit it. Little Sky Metawalla's case is another one, his whackadoodle mother claimed she left him in the car while she & the 4 yr. old daughter walked to a gas station to get "gas" for her van, yet the van was not out of gas. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a concrete timeline of the last sighting of little Sky, Julia could have murdered him several weeks prior to the hokey "out of gas story." Julia even showed up on the site "sugar babies," looking for yet another husband. Little Ayla's disappearance makes my blood boil, something has gotta give, children have to be protected from a parent in these disappearances, their right to be found has to be represented by someone other than LE when families aren't willing to beg for their return.

A guardian ad litem for missing children if a parent isn't doing everything possible to find them seems like a good idea, Baby Lisa could use one, so could Isabella it seems. If LE still hasn't cleared both parent's, they aren't able to move forward, it seems Isa's case is at the same stage as baby Lisa's case, eventually it's going to drop from the news & rarely reported on. The difference is, The Bradwin's family is still in tack, they appear to have moved on in their lives, the Celis' family is disconnected, it remains puzzeling as to try to even speculate as to the behavior of the family, & how odd it is that Sergio is living apart.








Art Tart,

It's so hard to get my head around what is going on with this extreme form of abandonment of these children.

I see the need for some profound paradigm shifts in the law and social services.

It seems like this epidemic demands some soul searching.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:07 pm

Tamata shared:

Art Tart,
It's so hard to get my head around what is going on with this extreme form of abandonment of these children.

I see the need for some profound paradigm shifts in the law and social services.

It seems like this epidemic demands some soul searching.
.

Tamata, I agree with your thoughts. I find myself vasilating between anger, grief, & sometimes almost rage that I felt towards Josh Powell. I am still grieving over the senseless loss of Braden/Charlie. imo, the spineless non acceptance of any responsibility by LE/social services/Court System/Judge's is unforgiveable. They knew Josh was unstable & a murder suspect, they AFFORDED JOSH the opportunity to murder Susan's children. One LE agency withholding information another LE agency/social services/psycologist desperately needed is unforgiveable. Braden & Charlie are another casuality of a broken system, one that is NOT IN PLACE to protect them or their rights, yet I have seen NO significant changes even being talked about to improve the broken system.

Has the Court system LOST all perspective in the rights to children's safety? imo, children have LESS rights than an adult in almost every case we see, something's gotta give, these senseless deaths & non accountability of parent's is outrageous.





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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:25 pm

art tart wrote:
Tamata shared:

Art Tart,
It's so hard to get my head around what is going on with this extreme form of abandonment of these children.

I see the need for some profound paradigm shifts in the law and social services.

It seems like this epidemic demands some soul searching.
.

Tamata, I agree with your thoughts. I find myself vasilating between anger, grief, & sometimes almost rage that I felt towards Josh Powell. I am still grieving over the senseless loss of Braden/Charlie. imo, the spineless non acceptance of any responsibility by LE/social services/Court System/Judge's is unforgiveable. They knew Josh was unstable & a murder suspect, they AFFORDED JOSH the opportunity to murder Susan's children. One LE agency withholding information another LE agency/social services/psycologist desperately needed is unforgiveable. Braden & Charlie are another casuality of a broken system, one that is NOT IN PLACE to protect them or their rights, yet I have seen NO significant changes even being talked about to improve the broken system.

Has the Court system LOST all perspective in the rights to children's safety? imo, children have LESS rights than an adult in almost every case we see, something's gotta give, these senseless deaths & non accountability of parent's is outrageous.





Art Tart,

We need new laws, or new interpretations of existing laws.
We need people bringing cases forward on behalf of these children!

Although there are MANY legal ramifications of such an idea, I have recently been reflecting upon what appropriate legal measures could be exacted to protect and secure truth for these children.

IMO, I sometimes think, 'what is so unreasonable about having to reverse the burden of proof for a parent that LE clearly suspects OR can not rule out because of clear and convincing evidence, in a missing child case?'
(of course the nature of evidence and the rules of evidence could be innocent people in harms way, and that is the problem)

If a parent 'suspect' wants to remain in contact or custody of their other children whilst they throw up road blocks in an investigation, they must prove, using a preponderance of evidence, that they are in fact entitled to that privelege, not a threat to a child's welfare, and can be considered legally entitled to custodial rights and freedom to ''move on".

I know it may not be reasonable thinking, but enough is enough.
For the love of G-d!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:53 pm

Tamta wrote:
art tart wrote:
Tamata shared:

Art Tart,
It's so hard to get my head around what is going on with this extreme form of abandonment of these children.

I see the need for some profound paradigm shifts in the law and social services.

It seems like this epidemic demands some soul searching.
.

Tamata, I agree with your thoughts. I find myself vasilating between anger, grief, & sometimes almost rage that I felt towards Josh Powell. I am still grieving over the senseless loss of Braden/Charlie. imo, the spineless non acceptance of any responsibility by LE/social services/Court System/Judge's is unforgiveable. They knew Josh was unstable & a murder suspect, they AFFORDED JOSH the opportunity to murder Susan's children. One LE agency withholding information another LE agency/social services/psycologist desperately needed is unforgiveable. Braden & Charlie are another casuality of a broken system, one that is NOT IN PLACE to protect them or their rights, yet I have seen NO significant changes even being talked about to improve the broken system.

Has the Court system LOST all perspective in the rights to children's safety? imo, children have LESS rights than an adult in almost every case we see, something's gotta give, these senseless deaths & non accountability of parent's is outrageous.





Art Tart,

We need new laws, or new interpretations of existing laws.
We need people bringing cases forward on behalf of these children!

Although there are MANY legal ramifications of such an idea, I have recently been reflecting upon what appropriate legal measures could be exacted to protect and secure truth for these children.

IMO, I sometimes think, 'what is so unreasonable about having to reverse the burden of proof for a parent that LE clearly suspects OR can not rule out because of clear and convincing evidence, in a missing child case?'
(of course the nature of evidence and the rules of evidence could be innocent people in harms way, and that is the problem)

If a parent 'suspect' wants to remain in contact or custody of their other children whilst they throw up road blocks in an investigation, they must prove, using a preponderance of evidence, that they are in fact entitled to that privelege, not a threat to a child's welfare, and can be considered legally entitled to custodial rights and freedom to ''move on".

I know it may not be reasonable thinking, but enough is enough.
For the love of G-d!


hmmm well I have tried to comment on this and written it out at least 4 different ways... and am struggling with perspective..
If there are reasonable causes to suspect that there is involvement and not just an inability to rule out the parent then I think that something should be done.. however, that being said I am not convinced that total removal of the parents if there is doubt is reasonable as children perceive things much differently than adults and may actually fear that was what happened to the sibling or parent.

This situation is definitely like sliding down the edge of a razor!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:20 pm

justanopinion said:
hmmm well I have tried to comment on this and written it out at least 4 different ways... and am struggling with perspective..

If there are reasonable causes to suspect that there is involvement and not just an inability to rule out the parent then I think that something should be done.. however, that being said I am not convinced that total removal of the parents if there is doubt is reasonable as children perceive things much differently than adults and may actually fear that was what happened to the sibling or parent.

This situation is definitely like sliding down the edge of a razor! .

justanopinon, I undertand your point but this is an example, of imo, the COURT system is NOT protecting the children:

The case of Michelle Parker: Dale Smith 2 is named as the "ONLY suspect" in the probable murder of Michelle, yet DS2 has been given custody of Michelle's twin's & they were removed from their grandparent's home in which they lived w/their mother Michelle.

DS2 had his parent's babysitting the twin's but Dale Smith Sr. GOT BUSTED for growing weed & arrested. DS2 has lost his job, he is a murder suspect but he has the twin's & they are denied the stability of the loving home they lived in.

LE may just need Michelle's remains to charge DS2 in her murder, but thus far, they haven't been able to recover it yet they continue to look.

Susan P.'s family, the Coxes' were promised that "any day Josh Powell was going to be arrested in the murder of Susan," but he murdered the children before they made an arrest. In some of these cases, imo, LE needs the remains of an adult because a criminal defense attorney may say, "we don't know they didn't run off with another man to Mexico."

Famous line used by Drew Peterson/Josh Powell, both murderer's imo.

A case recently ruled on was Vilet Torrez. Her husband is a suspect in her probable murder & disappearance YET the Court system gave her ex-husband her children. Vilet's family is scared to death for the safety of the children.

http://www.realitychatter.com/t3850-vilet-torrez-missing-4-2-12

I just listed 3 cases, in 2 cases the bio dad's are the ONLY suspects in the murder of their children's mother, & in Josh P's case, he had visitation 2 X's per week, he too the ONLY suspect of the children's mother, murdered the children.

imo, the safety/well fair of none of the children of the 3 men I named are being considered or the children's basic right to feel safe & be protected from any harm by a murder suspect. imo, this sucks, this isn't in the best interest of the children, the best interest imo, is the safety of the children ABOVE a parent's right to have them while LE/victim's families continue to search for the remains of the mother's. jmo. Basic common sense has escaped many that make decisions about the welfare of the most innocent, the children.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Justice4all on Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:28 pm

justanopinion wrote:
Tamta wrote:Art Tart,

We need new laws, or new interpretations of existing laws.
We need people bringing cases forward on behalf of these children!

Although there are MANY legal ramifications of such an idea, I have recently been reflecting upon what appropriate legal measures could be exacted to protect and secure truth for these children.

IMO, I sometimes think, 'what is so unreasonable about having to reverse the burden of proof for a parent that LE clearly suspects OR can not rule out because of clear and convincing evidence, in a missing child case?'
(of course the nature of evidence and the rules of evidence could be innocent people in harms way, and that is the problem)

If a parent 'suspect' wants to remain in contact or custody of their other children whilst they throw up road blocks in an investigation, they must prove, using a preponderance of evidence, that they are in fact entitled to that privelege, not a threat to a child's welfare, and can be considered legally entitled to custodial rights and freedom to ''move on".

I know it may not be reasonable thinking, but enough is enough.
For the love of G-d!


hmmm well I have tried to comment on this and written it out at least 4 different ways... and am struggling with perspective..
If there are reasonable causes to suspect that there is involvement and not just an inability to rule out the parent then I think that something should be done.. however, that being said I am not convinced that total removal of the parents if there is doubt is reasonable as children perceive things much differently than adults and may actually fear that was what happened to the sibling or parent.

This situation is definitely like sliding down the edge of a razor!
I know you are innocent until proven guilty under our system, but something has got to be done to protect children in these situations. In the Powell case, Josh's rights to the children should have been revoked as soon as it came to light that child pornography was found on his computer. In Haleigh's case they didn't have enough to charge anybody, so they threw the whole lot of them in jail for selling drugs. If authorities don't have enough evidence to charge suspects with murder, they need to watch them like hawks and arrest them the second they break any laws whether it's child porn, drugs, or something else.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:38 pm

J4A, you make a good point in Josh's case, he should have been arrested & more importantly, could have been arrested for the pornography months earlier. why LE continued to promise the Coxes an arrest on the murder of Susan I will never understand but continued to drag the case out. Nancy Grace said JP could have even been arrested for "lying to LE" on several occasions, imo, there is enough blame in the case to go around.

Meanwhile, 2 children murdered, it makes me so upset, all the pleading the Coxes' did fell on deaf ears.


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by nanshin on Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:06 pm

art tart wrote:J4A, you make a good point in Josh's case, he should have been arrested & more importantly, could have been arrested for the pornography months earlier. why LE continued to promise the Coxes an arrest on the murder of Susan I will never understand but continued to drag the case out. Nancy Grace said JP could have even been arrested for "lying to LE" on several occasions, imo, there is enough blame in the case to go around.

Meanwhile, 2 children murdered, it makes me so upset, all the pleading the Coxes' did fell on deaf ears.

I have read everyone's thoughtful and emotional posts. I agree too. In my opinion , family courts are the problem. Family courts in most states goal is to keep a parent's rights protected. IMO this is wrong in the majority of cases, especially the ones being discussed. The rules of court need to be changed. Each state has them. We can try to do something in each of our own states. I don't have the answers, I guess we can start with legislation. In my state judges are appointed, so not voting for them doesn't work. You would be surprised at the visitation rights I have seen granted. It does have to change. Many parents "agree" with no contact or agree that a family member takes custody of children during a family investigation. Probably in this case, one of the boys said something. The agreement stops a full blown trial of abuse or neglect. That does not stop Social/family services investigation though. They have been interviewing everyone the children come in contact with, teachers, other family member too. RC and the boys could also be attending counseling and therapy .
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:23 pm

http://bringisahome.com/faq/
BringIsaHome.com

recently added page to the website:

FAQ


Is there a reward being offered?
What are we working on ?
How can I help?
Are Sergio and Becky divorced?
Why haven’t any volunteer searches been conducted?
Is there a family spokesperson?
What is the donation money being spent on?
______________________________
well look what was added to the website-pretty obvious they read around on the forums, also obvious they are still in CYA mode at every turn-no reason parents could not answer these questions themselves to the media, instead they are hiding behind a website donation page
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:59 pm

art tart wrote:
justanopinion said:
hmmm well I have tried to comment on this and written it out at least 4 different ways... and am struggling with perspective..

If there are reasonable causes to suspect that there is involvement and not just an inability to rule out the parent then I think that something should be done.. however, that being said I am not convinced that total removal of the parents if there is doubt is reasonable as children perceive things much differently than adults and may actually fear that was what happened to the sibling or parent.

This situation is definitely like sliding down the edge of a razor! .

justanopinon, I undertand your point but this is an example, of imo, the COURT system is NOT protecting the children:

The case of Michelle Parker: Dale Smith 2 is named as the "ONLY suspect" in the probable murder of Michelle, yet DS2 has been given custody of Michelle's twin's & they were removed from their grandparent's home in which they lived w/their mother Michelle.

DS2 had his parent's babysitting the twin's but Dale Smith Sr. GOT BUSTED for growing weed & arrested. DS2 has lost his job, he is a murder suspect but he has the twin's & they are denied the stability of the loving home they lived in.

LE may just need Michelle's remains to charge DS2 in her murder, but thus far, they haven't been able to recover it yet they continue to look.

Susan P.'s family, the Coxes' were promised that "any day Josh Powell was going to be arrested in the murder of Susan," but he murdered the children before they made an arrest. In some of these cases, imo, LE needs the remains of an adult because a criminal defense attorney may say, "we don't know they didn't run off with another man to Mexico."

Famous line used by Drew Peterson/Josh Powell, both murderer's imo.

A case recently ruled on was Vilet Torrez. Her husband is a suspect in her probable murder & disappearance YET the Court system gave her ex-husband her children. Vilet's family is scared to death for the safety of the children.

http://www.realitychatter.com/t3850-vilet-torrez-missing-4-2-12

I just listed 3 cases, in 2 cases the bio dad's are the ONLY suspects in the murder of their children's mother, & in Josh P's case, he had visitation 2 X's per week, he too the ONLY suspect of the children's mother, murdered the children.

imo, the safety/well fair of none of the children of the 3 men I named are being considered or the children's basic right to feel safe & be protected from any harm by a murder suspect. imo, this sucks, this isn't in the best interest of the children, the best interest imo, is the safety of the children ABOVE a parent's right to have them while LE/victim's families continue to search for the remains of the mother's. jmo. Basic common sense has escaped many that make decisions about the welfare of the most innocent, the children.


Art Tart I totally get where you are coming from... because part of me totally agrees. I had related a story about my life at THM. My youngest son committed suicide when he was 14 and it was devastating... My husbands mothers husband made some wild accusations and we were investigated for murder. The autopsy took several weeks because the body had to be sent out of town. Within the week my father passed away from a heart attack. IF my oldest son had been removed from my care during this time I would still be in a rubber room. It was only because I had to pull it together to care for my oldest that I did not curl up in a ball and fade away. My oldest would have been on suicide watch if he had been pulled from the family and my husband was a basket case for months because of the stress of insuring that we all got by. Oh and BTW both my husband and myself had gone back to college to change careers and it was during this time.. I think that in the cases you mentioned that LE must have had some strong indications that there was reasonable need to protect these children and perhaps Judges should err on the side of the protection of children. Are there not "children's advocates" in the states (lawyers who represent the children and take only the interests of the child into consideration and fight for their rights)?

Hence why I said that it was like sliding down the edge of a razor.. someone has the potential for great harm if the situation is not clearly understood and acted upon according to each individual situation. Hope I explained why I am torn clearly. Laughing makes sense when I read it.... but I know what I was thinking and not certain that it was explain well enough.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:50 am

justanopinion wrote:
art tart wrote:
justanopinion said:
hmmm well I have tried to comment on this and written it out at least 4 different ways... and am struggling with perspective..

If there are reasonable causes to suspect that there is involvement and not just an inability to rule out the parent then I think that something should be done.. however, that being said I am not convinced that total removal of the parents if there is doubt is reasonable as children perceive things much differently than adults and may actually fear that was what happened to the sibling or parent.

This situation is definitely like sliding down the edge of a razor! .

justanopinon, I undertand your point but this is an example, of imo, the COURT system is NOT protecting the children:

The case of Michelle Parker: Dale Smith 2 is named as the "ONLY suspect" in the probable murder of Michelle, yet DS2 has been given custody of Michelle's twin's & they were removed from their grandparent's home in which they lived w/their mother Michelle.

DS2 had his parent's babysitting the twin's but Dale Smith Sr. GOT BUSTED for growing weed & arrested. DS2 has lost his job, he is a murder suspect but he has the twin's & they are denied the stability of the loving home they lived in.

LE may just need Michelle's remains to charge DS2 in her murder, but thus far, they haven't been able to recover it yet they continue to look.

Susan P.'s family, the Coxes' were promised that "any day Josh Powell was going to be arrested in the murder of Susan," but he murdered the children before they made an arrest. In some of these cases, imo, LE needs the remains of an adult because a criminal defense attorney may say, "we don't know they didn't run off with another man to Mexico."

Famous line used by Drew Peterson/Josh Powell, both murderer's imo.

A case recently ruled on was Vilet Torrez. Her husband is a suspect in her probable murder & disappearance YET the Court system gave her ex-husband her children. Vilet's family is scared to death for the safety of the children.

http://www.realitychatter.com/t3850-vilet-torrez-missing-4-2-12

I just listed 3 cases, in 2 cases the bio dad's are the ONLY suspects in the murder of their children's mother, & in Josh P's case, he had visitation 2 X's per week, he too the ONLY suspect of the children's mother, murdered the children.

imo, the safety/well fair of none of the children of the 3 men I named are being considered or the children's basic right to feel safe & be protected from any harm by a murder suspect. imo, this sucks, this isn't in the best interest of the children, the best interest imo, is the safety of the children ABOVE a parent's right to have them while LE/victim's families continue to search for the remains of the mother's. jmo. Basic common sense has escaped many that make decisions about the welfare of the most innocent, the children.


Art Tart I totally get where you are coming from... because part of me totally agrees. I had related a story about my life at THM. My youngest son committed suicide when he was 14 and it was devastating... My husbands mothers husband made some wild accusations and we were investigated for murder. The autopsy took several weeks because the body had to be sent out of town. Within the week my father passed away from a heart attack. IF my oldest son had been removed from my care during this time I would still be in a rubber room. It was only because I had to pull it together to care for my oldest that I did not curl up in a ball and fade away. My oldest would have been on suicide watch if he had been pulled from the family and my husband was a basket case for months because of the stress of insuring that we all got by. Oh and BTW both my husband and myself had gone back to college to change careers and it was during this time.. I think that in the cases you mentioned that LE must have had some strong indications that there was reasonable need to protect these children and perhaps Judges should err on the side of the protection of children. Are there not "children's advocates" in the states (lawyers who represent the children and take only the interests of the child into consideration and fight for their rights)?

Hence why I said that it was like sliding down the edge of a razor.. someone has the potential for great harm if the situation is not clearly understood and acted upon according to each individual situation. Hope I explained why I am torn clearly. Laughing makes sense when I read it.... but I know what I was thinking and not certain that it was explain well enough.

BBM

JMO,

What an awful story!!! Shocked
THat is heart breaking to suffer such loss and scrutiny at once.

I just wanted to clarify that what I bolded was what I intended and the remark that I had made in my post was out of exasperation and I fully understand the complexities involved and am no where near working that out mentally!!!

G-d Bless you!!

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:01 am

Tamta wrote:
justanopinion wrote:
art tart wrote:
justanopinion said:
hmmm well I have tried to comment on this and written it out at least 4 different ways... and am struggling with perspective..

If there are reasonable causes to suspect that there is involvement and not just an inability to rule out the parent then I think that something should be done.. however, that being said I am not convinced that total removal of the parents if there is doubt is reasonable as children perceive things much differently than adults and may actually fear that was what happened to the sibling or parent.

This situation is definitely like sliding down the edge of a razor! .

justanopinon, I undertand your point but this is an example, of imo, the COURT system is NOT protecting the children:

The case of Michelle Parker: Dale Smith 2 is named as the "ONLY suspect" in the probable murder of Michelle, yet DS2 has been given custody of Michelle's twin's & they were removed from their grandparent's home in which they lived w/their mother Michelle.

DS2 had his parent's babysitting the twin's but Dale Smith Sr. GOT BUSTED for growing weed & arrested. DS2 has lost his job, he is a murder suspect but he has the twin's & they are denied the stability of the loving home they lived in.

LE may just need Michelle's remains to charge DS2 in her murder, but thus far, they haven't been able to recover it yet they continue to look.

Susan P.'s family, the Coxes' were promised that "any day Josh Powell was going to be arrested in the murder of Susan," but he murdered the children before they made an arrest. In some of these cases, imo, LE needs the remains of an adult because a criminal defense attorney may say, "we don't know they didn't run off with another man to Mexico."

Famous line used by Drew Peterson/Josh Powell, both murderer's imo.

A case recently ruled on was Vilet Torrez. Her husband is a suspect in her probable murder & disappearance YET the Court system gave her ex-husband her children. Vilet's family is scared to death for the safety of the children.

http://www.realitychatter.com/t3850-vilet-torrez-missing-4-2-12

I just listed 3 cases, in 2 cases the bio dad's are the ONLY suspects in the murder of their children's mother, & in Josh P's case, he had visitation 2 X's per week, he too the ONLY suspect of the children's mother, murdered the children.

imo, the safety/well fair of none of the children of the 3 men I named are being considered or the children's basic right to feel safe & be protected from any harm by a murder suspect. imo, this sucks, this isn't in the best interest of the children, the best interest imo, is the safety of the children ABOVE a parent's right to have them while LE/victim's families continue to search for the remains of the mother's. jmo. Basic common sense has escaped many that make decisions about the welfare of the most innocent, the children.


Art Tart I totally get where you are coming from... because part of me totally agrees. I had related a story about my life at THM. My youngest son committed suicide when he was 14 and it was devastating... My husbands mothers husband made some wild accusations and we were investigated for murder. The autopsy took several weeks because the body had to be sent out of town. Within the week my father passed away from a heart attack. IF my oldest son had been removed from my care during this time I would still be in a rubber room. It was only because I had to pull it together to care for my oldest that I did not curl up in a ball and fade away. My oldest would have been on suicide watch if he had been pulled from the family and my husband was a basket case for months because of the stress of insuring that we all got by. Oh and BTW both my husband and myself had gone back to college to change careers and it was during this time.. I think that in the cases you mentioned that LE must have had some strong indications that there was reasonable need to protect these children and perhaps Judges should err on the side of the protection of children. Are there not "children's advocates" in the states (lawyers who represent the children and take only the interests of the child into consideration and fight for their rights)?

Hence why I said that it was like sliding down the edge of a razor.. someone has the potential for great harm if the situation is not clearly understood and acted upon according to each individual situation. Hope I explained why I am torn clearly. Laughing makes sense when I read it.... but I know what I was thinking and not certain that it was explain well enough.

BBM

JMO,

What an awful story!!! Shocked
THat is heart breaking to suffer such loss and scrutiny at once.

I just wanted to clarify that what I bolded was what I intended and the remark that I had made in my post was out of exasperation and I fully understand the complexities involved and am no where near working that out mentally!!!

G-d Bless you!!



Tamta thank you for understanding.. I am flabbergasted by some of the decisions that the courts make. It is imperative that children are protected and I am not certain how this can be done without undue stress or strain on the children. Clearly, I do believe that in the cases mentioned above the courts and the system have failed the children.

In the Celis case I do believe that there is so much more that is going on. I don't comprehend the parents behaviour at all. I am relieved that the children are separated from one parent voluntarily, however, I am not convinced that it should not have been both. Mom keeps looking up when she was on camera and I do get that they are religious but it seems more than that. I do think that Isa will not be returning to that family alive. I do pray that they find her. I do pray that I am wrong. Another recent case is the Irwin family the children there should have been removed as well IMO. Children are not disposable they are precious gifts.

But it is my observation that the criminals have more rights in our society that any other people and even then there are inadequacies... a murderer has more rights and protection than a criminal who has messed with the money. The pendulum needs to swing the other way and soon.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:41 am

justanopinion shared:
I am flabbergasted by some of the decisions that the courts make. It is imperative that children are protected and I am not certain how this can be done without undue stress or strain on the children. Clearly, I do believe that in the cases mentioned above the courts and the system have failed the children.

In the Celis case I do believe that there is so much more that is going on. I don't comprehend the parents behaviour at all. I am relieved that the children are separated from one parent voluntarily, however, I am not convinced that it should not have been both. Mom keeps looking up when she was on camera and I do get that they are religious but it seems more than that. I do think that Isa will not be returning to that family alive. I do pray that they find her. I do pray that I am wrong. Another recent case is the Irwin family the children there should have been removed as well IMO. Children are not disposable they are precious gifts.

But it is my observation that the criminals have more rights in our society that any other people and even then there are inadequacies... a murderer has more rights and protection than a criminal who has messed with the money. The pendulum needs to swing the other way and soon. .

justanopinion,sadly, due to the loss of your son you can share the miserable experiences innocent families have to cope with externally, but too having to cope with the grief/pain of their loss of a loved one within their home . I can surely understand the need for the remainder of your family to be intact, secure in your home with you, your strength is admireable, thanks for sharing w/us.

You make so many good points, I too don't think Isabella is ever going to return home, I guess I just base my opinion on statistics. Although Tim Miller was positive in saying "Dugard & Smart were returned after years of being missing," their experiences were very very rare, there are countless other's that were murdered, dumped, & some children's remains never found. Although the cases of Dugard & Smart probably represent less than 1% of missing children, as a parent, I would never want to give up hope unless remains were found. In cases of the dogs hitting on decomp, especially in the child's home, etc., those cases are different imo.

I don't know why my hinky meter goes up in this case, the problem for me is the lack of urgency which has been shared by many on this thread, the lack of motivation by Becky to do National Media despite the constant request/encouragement from LE, & the splintering of the family for unknown reasons & the lack of the clearing of the family, or at least Becky in Isa's case.

This case may be like many many others discussed in this case, it may grow cold despite some evidence in the case, but not enough for charges, I don't know where this leaves the Celis family as a unit, if Sergio is ever going to be allowed to return while Isa remains missing. In so many other cases of these children, many of the family member's have moved on & aren't demanding LE search for their child.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:47 pm

art tart wrote:
justanopinion shared:
I am flabbergasted by some of the decisions that the courts make. It is imperative that children are protected and I am not certain how this can be done without undue stress or strain on the children. Clearly, I do believe that in the cases mentioned above the courts and the system have failed the children.

In the Celis case I do believe that there is so much more that is going on. I don't comprehend the parents behaviour at all. I am relieved that the children are separated from one parent voluntarily, however, I am not convinced that it should not have been both. Mom keeps looking up when she was on camera and I do get that they are religious but it seems more than that. I do think that Isa will not be returning to that family alive. I do pray that they find her. I do pray that I am wrong. Another recent case is the Irwin family the children there should have been removed as well IMO. Children are not disposable they are precious gifts.

But it is my observation that the criminals have more rights in our society that any other people and even then there are inadequacies... a murderer has more rights and protection than a criminal who has messed with the money. The pendulum needs to swing the other way and soon. .

justanopinion,sadly, due to the loss of your son you can share the miserable experiences innocent families have to cope with externally, but too having to cope with the grief/pain of their loss of a loved one within their home . I can surely understand the need for the remainder of your family to be intact, secure in your home with you, your strength is admireable, thanks for sharing w/us.

You make so many good points, I too don't think Isabella is ever going to return home, I guess I just base my opinion on statistics. Although Tim Miller was positive in saying "Dugard & Smart were returned after years of being missing," their experiences were very very rare, there are countless other's that were murdered, dumped, & some children's remains never found. Although the cases of Dugard & Smart probably represent less than 1% of missing children, as a parent, I would never want to give up hope unless remains were found. In cases of the dogs hitting on decomp, especially in the child's home, etc., those cases are different imo.

I don't know why my hinky meter goes up in this case, the problem for me is the lack of urgency which has been shared by many on this thread, the lack of motivation by Becky to do National Media despite the constant request/encouragement from LE, & the splintering of the family for unknown reasons & the lack of the clearing of the family, or at least Becky in Isa's case.

This case may be like many many others discussed in this case, it may grow cold despite some evidence in the case, but not enough for charges, I don't know where this leaves the Celis family as a unit, if Sergio is ever going to be allowed to return while Isa remains missing. In so many other cases of these children, many of the family member's have moved on & aren't demanding LE search for their child.

You know art tart - interestingly, Dugard and Smart share something in common - both were post-pubescent. Dugard was 11 but conceived a child very shortly after her capture. Smart was in her teens as well. It seems the very young ones are tossed away like trash. Dugard and Smart are very very rare cases and yet both seemed to be coveted by men who each already had a "wife" and saw them as surrogate second "wives" -- interesting and I never really put that together until now. So their "utility" function was that of "wife" or "sex slave" -- whereas it seems the younger ones tossed away fulfill a much shorter lived purpose.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:00 am

edited to try and fix my quotes...
Snipped for space...

[quote="Stolat"]
art tart wrote:



You know art tart - interestingly, Dugard and Smart share something in common - both were post-pubescent. Dugard was 11 but conceived a child very shortly after her capture. Smart was in her teens as well. It seems the very young ones are tossed away like trash. Dugard and Smart are very very rare cases and yet both seemed to be coveted by men who each already had a "wife" and saw them as surrogate second "wives" -- interesting and I never really put that together until now. So their "utility" function was that of "wife" or "sex slave" -- whereas it seems the younger ones tossed away fulfill a much shorter lived purpose.


Stolat I find your interpretation to be very insightful. I don't think I have ever considered that as a possibility; however, on reflection it does seem to not only have merit but a very strong consideration. Nice thinking outside the "normal" box. As I think we have to in most of these cases... or we would completely misunderstand what is going on. There is just something about both these parents that creeps me out! study


Last edited by justanopinion on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to attempt to fix my snip and quotes..)
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by snowbird on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:12 am

What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:41 am

snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by snowbird on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:53 am

justanopinion wrote:
snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!
On one of the interview of Isabel mother she stated to press in an offense why, Please tell us how to act when your child goes missing because we don't know who to do it. (Not exact words) It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to know to plea for your child safe return and to use the media to get your child's picture out there. I do feel like they are hiding something. So also said they had to keep it normal because she has other children, there is nothing normal about this situation. IMO Her other children so know that she would go to the ends of the earth to find them if they were missing and that she would go to the ends of the earth to find their sister.

If this child is still alive, then passing out flyer in her community will not bring her back because she could be any place in the US.

I am sorry to say, I don't think she is alive and that something happened to her in her home.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:14 am

justanopinion wrote:
snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!

When we aks ourselves these questions, what would we do, how would we react - they seem no-brainers to us. And yet i also suspect that none of us are married to someone who has done something to cause CPS to strip them of all parental contact. That's not to excuse the parents - -that's just to say that there are dynamics going on there that we obviously cannot identify with and so we find it boggling to try to interpret their actions. Clearly they are not typical of a "healthy" family and therefore what we are seeing is what happens when crisis bears down on an unhealthy family -- their reactions are atypical. It is frustrating and sad.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:51 am

Stolat wrote:
justanopinion wrote:
snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!

When we aks ourselves these questions, what would we do, how would we react - they seem no-brainers to us. And yet i also suspect that none of us are married to someone who has done something to cause CPS to strip them of all parental contact. That's not to excuse the parents - -that's just to say that there are dynamics going on there that we obviously cannot identify with and so we find it boggling to try to interpret their actions. Clearly they are not typical of a "healthy" family and therefore what we are seeing is what happens when crisis bears down on an unhealthy family -- their reactions are atypical. It is frustrating and sad.

I wasnt convinced that she wasnt coming home until now, or short of a miracle. The behavior by these two is repulsive from any parent/normal persons perspective. There has not been a word in weeks from either of them, they werent at the car wash last weekend, and that statment from BC from the vigil, "at the end of the day everyones questions will be answered", rings loudly over and over. Really BC how is that exactly? The more I re-read over those PDF's, it at least appears to me that this crime scene has been staged. Bedding all over town, shower curtains, and baseball cap in the car with possible blood stains, the screen supposedly knocked out? 3 dogs in the house reportedly not making a sound while a "stranger" is getting all this done? At 6:38 am, we have mens voices outside, I now believe this time frame to be crucial...i bet any $ those detectives are scouring and pouring over any video from that time till 8AM, I think thats when her body was disposed of and someone helped. If you think this thru the tv was on in living room late into the night(he claims he went to his bed at 5am and fell asleep watching it), Becky was up at 6, PDF's say she didnt leave until 647AM; to think in the middle of the night your a stranger, getting a body out of the house, blankets, putting stuff in a parked car outside....then imagine doing that in broad day light with a parent up showering, getting ready for work ... if we believe Alicia the dogs are going crazy at 638... were just expected to believe that the parents didnt hear anything, BC is out of shower, and ready to practically walk out the door at this time frame. Lastly, the PDF has a long list of the 1st people called when Isa went missing.... and Justin Mastromarino isnt on it!(LIST is located in PDF 2 pg 71 of 90), is that because he was there too? Funny he was first to step in front of that news camera and we havent seen him since! I dont know why I have been on the fence so long not believing these parents didnt do something to her, we have a father NOT allowed any contact with his kids, not even permitted to speak to them via phone....HELLO what was I on the fence thinking about here???!!!! I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:58 am

Stolat shared:
You know art tart - interestingly, Dugard and Smart share something in common - both were post-pubescent. Dugard was 11 but conceived a child very shortly after her capture. Smart was in her teens as well. It seems the very young ones are tossed away like trash. Dugard and Smart are very very rare cases and yet both seemed to be coveted by men who each already had a "wife" and saw them as surrogate second "wives" -- interesting and I never really put that together until now. So their "utility" function was that of "wife" or "sex slave" -- whereas it seems the younger ones tossed away fulfill a much shorter lived purpose.


Stolat, I agree w/justanopinion, you really have made an important connection that I don't think I have seen pointed out before either.

Pat Brown has said "IF IN FACT a little one is taken/abducted, they are usually discarded, or like Stolat points out like trash, discarded beside the road or dumped anywhere if taken by a pediphile because they don't care." She too has stated in rare occasions a newborn has been taken & not by a pedophile, but someone seeking a baby but those cases rarely happen.

The thing is, Isabella is old enough to tell anything/everything about the person that abducted her, she knows her address/phone #, she is a liability as a child to be abducted at random, the possibility of someone keeping her alive doesn't seem very plausible. Sadly, something started inside the home, the answers may too be there, the boys' may know & Sergio may know a lot.

I hope more evidence is released soon to ratchett up the pressure if this is LE's intentions or someone cracks under the pressure.

I am still thinking of Deana Thompson, Somer's mother. Distraught/determined in every single interview, never turning a single interview down be taking the opportunity to BEG for Somer's return. imo, she knew it wasn't likely Somer was ever coming home. why? Because Somer too could tell everything she knew, she became a liability of a sexual predator, & infact, dumped like trash in a trash bin & found in a dump a couple of state's away.

The Celis family doesn't share this realization for some reason, LE has surely told them the odds, but they remain stoic at times, sad, but not distraught.




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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:11 pm

color77 wrote:[SNIPPED for space]
I wasnt convinced that she wasnt coming home until now, or short of a miracle. The behavior by these two is repulsive from any parent/normal persons perspective. There has not been a word in weeks from either of them, they werent at the car wash last weekend, and that statment from BC from the vigil, "at the end of the day everyones questions will be answered", rings loudly over and over. Really BC how is that exactly? The more I re-read over those PDF's, it at least appears to me that this crime scene has been staged. Bedding all over town, shower curtains, and baseball cap in the car with possible blood stains, the screen supposedly knocked out? 3 dogs in the house reportedly not making a sound while a "stranger" is getting all this done? At 6:38 am, we have mens voices outside, I now believe this time frame to be crucial...i bet any $ those detectives are scouring and pouring over any video from that time till 8AM, I think thats when her body was disposed of and someone helped. If you think this thru the tv was on in living room late into the night(he claims he went to his bed at 5am and fell asleep watching it), Becky was up at 6, PDF's say she didnt leave until 647AM; to think in the middle of the night your a stranger, getting a body out of the house, blankets, putting stuff in a parked car outside....then imagine doing that in broad day light with a parent up showering, getting ready for work ... if we believe Alicia the dogs are going crazy at 638... were just expected to believe that the parents didnt hear anything, BC is out of shower, and ready to practically walk out the door at this time frame. Lastly, the PDF has a long list of the 1st people called when Isa went missing.... and Justin Mastromarino isnt on it!(LIST is located in PDF 2 pg 71 of 90), is that because he was there too? Funny he was first to step in front of that news camera and we havent seen him since! I dont know why I have been on the fence so long not believing these parents didnt do something to her, we have a father NOT allowed any contact with his kids, not even permitted to speak to them via phone....HELLO what was I on the fence thinking about here???!!!! I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

I'm sorry - this made me laugh. I'm sorta guessing - No.

And that is interesting - I had not poured over this list and did not know about Justin not being called at all that morning and yet miraculously he was there. *unless* he was called by the g'parents who live down the street (and I'm betting *they* are on that list). Nevertheless, you point out a good reason to believe Justin was already there. But wouldn't the two sons have attested to that by now? Wouldn't they have told the police if Justin happened to be there when they awoke? I would think that would have been in a report somewhere. Just trying to think it through.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:27 pm

color77 shared:
I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

color 77,excellent points too. It is always helpful & interesting to read the deductions made by other's & their reasoning. I always learn something new or see something from a different perspective.

I think we can all agree, the lack of a family member standing up for Isa is reminding us of a previous murder, Caylee's. In her case, never to be any Justice served, grandparent's seeking to save their daughter at any cost.

Does anyone know if Becky or Sergio have gone back to work? The lack of LE talking & little information coming out paints a continuing ominous outcome in Isa's case imo, one that LE may already know.


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:55 pm

http://bringisahome.com/faq/
bringisahome.com

Why is the family not doing more?
They ARE actively searching for their daughter. The family is at the Command Center frequently and at all the events that we arrange to keep Isa’s face in the public eye. Unfortunately, media is not always present when they at the command center or arriving at events, or when they are helping with strategies and new ideas for search efforts. Many of the media interviews that the family have participated in have been shown only on local television or are not available on the internet. Any media interviews that we have access to, we post on this website and/or our Facebook pages.
____________________________

what a bunch of BS!!!
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:13 pm

Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:[SNIPPED for space]
I wasnt convinced that she wasnt coming home until now, or short of a miracle. The behavior by these two is repulsive from any parent/normal persons perspective. There has not been a word in weeks from either of them, they werent at the car wash last weekend, and that statment from BC from the vigil, "at the end of the day everyones questions will be answered", rings loudly over and over. Really BC how is that exactly? The more I re-read over those PDF's, it at least appears to me that this crime scene has been staged. Bedding all over town, shower curtains, and baseball cap in the car with possible blood stains, the screen supposedly knocked out? 3 dogs in the house reportedly not making a sound while a "stranger" is getting all this done? At 6:38 am, we have mens voices outside, I now believe this time frame to be crucial...i bet any $ those detectives are scouring and pouring over any video from that time till 8AM, I think thats when her body was disposed of and someone helped. If you think this thru the tv was on in living room late into the night(he claims he went to his bed at 5am and fell asleep watching it), Becky was up at 6, PDF's say she didnt leave until 647AM; to think in the middle of the night your a stranger, getting a body out of the house, blankets, putting stuff in a parked car outside....then imagine doing that in broad day light with a parent up showering, getting ready for work ... if we believe Alicia the dogs are going crazy at 638... were just expected to believe that the parents didnt hear anything, BC is out of shower, and ready to practically walk out the door at this time frame. Lastly, the PDF has a long list of the 1st people called when Isa went missing.... and Justin Mastromarino isnt on it!(LIST is located in PDF 2 pg 71 of 90), is that because he was there too? Funny he was first to step in front of that news camera and we havent seen him since! I dont know why I have been on the fence so long not believing these parents didnt do something to her, we have a father NOT allowed any contact with his kids, not even permitted to speak to them via phone....HELLO what was I on the fence thinking about here???!!!! I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

I'm sorry - this made me laugh. I'm sorta guessing - No.

And that is interesting - I had not poured over this list and did not know about Justin not being called at all that morning and yet miraculously he was there. *unless* he was called by the g'parents who live down the street (and I'm betting *they* are on that list). Nevertheless, you point out a good reason to believe Justin was already there. But wouldn't the two sons have attested to that by now? Wouldn't they have told the police if Justin happened to be there when they awoke? I would think that would have been in a report somewhere. Just trying to think it through.
@ Stolat, just remember tho, Justin is not related to Sergio, he is related to Becky, and his mother(sergios) is laid up in bed recovering from a stroke(according to pdf) and that the grandfather met the PD at the door and allowed LE to search the entire residence and outside. Also the report says Beckys parents were called who live in Douglas, its pretty detailed about who was contacted and he(justin) is not on the list. It also says that someone they did not get the name of, who they believed to be Beckys brother was there when they arrived.....I wonder who that someone is since her other brothers were named on the report of people called. If you remember in the beginning it was thought Justin was a "brother" of Becky.../"uncle" of Isa, who actually turned out to be a cousin.....just more to think about :)

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:24 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://bringisahome.com/faq/
bringisahome.com

Why is the family not doing more?
They ARE actively searching for their daughter. The family is at the Command Center frequently and at all the events that we arrange to keep Isa’s face in the public eye. Unfortunately, media is not always present when they at the command center or arriving at events, or when they are helping with strategies and new ideas for search efforts. Many of the media interviews that the family have participated in have been shown only on local television or are not available on the internet. Any media interviews that we have access to, we post on this website and/or our Facebook pages.
____________________________

what a bunch of BS!!!

Honeysage, it just makes you wonder how Becky showing up periodically helps Isabella in the National News or even helps the search for Isa at all except to say Thank You to those that volunteer their time?

The website sounds a bit defensive, as if they are aware of the widespread criticism of the family on the internet, they are trying to make excuses for the behavior.. imo.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:29 pm

color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:[SNIPPED for space]
I wasnt convinced that she wasnt coming home until now, or short of a miracle. The behavior by these two is repulsive from any parent/normal persons perspective. There has not been a word in weeks from either of them, they werent at the car wash last weekend, and that statment from BC from the vigil, "at the end of the day everyones questions will be answered", rings loudly over and over. Really BC how is that exactly? The more I re-read over those PDF's, it at least appears to me that this crime scene has been staged. Bedding all over town, shower curtains, and baseball cap in the car with possible blood stains, the screen supposedly knocked out? 3 dogs in the house reportedly not making a sound while a "stranger" is getting all this done? At 6:38 am, we have mens voices outside, I now believe this time frame to be crucial...i bet any $ those detectives are scouring and pouring over any video from that time till 8AM, I think thats when her body was disposed of and someone helped. If you think this thru the tv was on in living room late into the night(he claims he went to his bed at 5am and fell asleep watching it), Becky was up at 6, PDF's say she didnt leave until 647AM; to think in the middle of the night your a stranger, getting a body out of the house, blankets, putting stuff in a parked car outside....then imagine doing that in broad day light with a parent up showering, getting ready for work ... if we believe Alicia the dogs are going crazy at 638... were just expected to believe that the parents didnt hear anything, BC is out of shower, and ready to practically walk out the door at this time frame. Lastly, the PDF has a long list of the 1st people called when Isa went missing.... and Justin Mastromarino isnt on it!(LIST is located in PDF 2 pg 71 of 90), is that because he was there too? Funny he was first to step in front of that news camera and we havent seen him since! I dont know why I have been on the fence so long not believing these parents didnt do something to her, we have a father NOT allowed any contact with his kids, not even permitted to speak to them via phone....HELLO what was I on the fence thinking about here???!!!! I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

I'm sorry - this made me laugh. I'm sorta guessing - No.

And that is interesting - I had not poured over this list and did not know about Justin not being called at all that morning and yet miraculously he was there. *unless* he was called by the g'parents who live down the street (and I'm betting *they* are on that list). Nevertheless, you point out a good reason to believe Justin was already there. But wouldn't the two sons have attested to that by now? Wouldn't they have told the police if Justin happened to be there when they awoke? I would think that would have been in a report somewhere. Just trying to think it through.
@ Stolat, just remember tho, Justin is not related to Sergio, he is related to Becky, and his mother(sergios) is laid up in bed recovering from a stroke(according to pdf) and that the grandfather met the PD at the door and allowed LE to search the entire residence and outside. Also the report says Beckys parents were called who live in Douglas, its pretty detailed about who was contacted and he(justin) is not on the list. It also says that someone they did not get the name of, who they believed to be Beckys brother was there when they arrived.....I wonder who that someone is since her other brothers were named on the report of people called. If you remember in the beginning it was thought Justin was a "brother" of Becky.../"uncle" of Isa, who actually turned out to be a cousin.....just more to think about :)

I too thought that at the start -- but they *did* name a separate man as Becky's brother and they *did* outline specific investigative actions they took related to him. He is definitely separate of Justin - I'll try to dig up his name.

EDITED: Just checked.... it's Bob Rodriguez. That's Becky's brother's name

Robert Snyder Rodriguez


Last edited by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:30 pm

art tart wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://bringisahome.com/faq/
bringisahome.com

Why is the family not doing more?
They ARE actively searching for their daughter. The family is at the Command Center frequently and at all the events that we arrange to keep Isa’s face in the public eye. Unfortunately, media is not always present when they at the command center or arriving at events, or when they are helping with strategies and new ideas for search efforts. Many of the media interviews that the family have participated in have been shown only on local television or are not available on the internet. Any media interviews that we have access to, we post on this website and/or our Facebook pages.
____________________________

what a bunch of BS!!!

Honeysage, it just makes you wonder how Becky showing up periodically helps Isabella in the National News or even helps the search for Isa at all except to say Thank You to those that volunteer their time?

The website sounds a bit defensive, as if they are aware of the widespread criticism of the family on the internet, they are trying to make excuses for the behavior.. imo.

Artart...agree agree agree!!!

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:33 pm

Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:[SNIPPED for space]
I wasnt convinced that she wasnt coming home until now, or short of a miracle. The behavior by these two is repulsive from any parent/normal persons perspective. There has not been a word in weeks from either of them, they werent at the car wash last weekend, and that statment from BC from the vigil, "at the end of the day everyones questions will be answered", rings loudly over and over. Really BC how is that exactly? The more I re-read over those PDF's, it at least appears to me that this crime scene has been staged. Bedding all over town, shower curtains, and baseball cap in the car with possible blood stains, the screen supposedly knocked out? 3 dogs in the house reportedly not making a sound while a "stranger" is getting all this done? At 6:38 am, we have mens voices outside, I now believe this time frame to be crucial...i bet any $ those detectives are scouring and pouring over any video from that time till 8AM, I think thats when her body was disposed of and someone helped. If you think this thru the tv was on in living room late into the night(he claims he went to his bed at 5am and fell asleep watching it), Becky was up at 6, PDF's say she didnt leave until 647AM; to think in the middle of the night your a stranger, getting a body out of the house, blankets, putting stuff in a parked car outside....then imagine doing that in broad day light with a parent up showering, getting ready for work ... if we believe Alicia the dogs are going crazy at 638... were just expected to believe that the parents didnt hear anything, BC is out of shower, and ready to practically walk out the door at this time frame. Lastly, the PDF has a long list of the 1st people called when Isa went missing.... and Justin Mastromarino isnt on it!(LIST is located in PDF 2 pg 71 of 90), is that because he was there too? Funny he was first to step in front of that news camera and we havent seen him since! I dont know why I have been on the fence so long not believing these parents didnt do something to her, we have a father NOT allowed any contact with his kids, not even permitted to speak to them via phone....HELLO what was I on the fence thinking about here???!!!! I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

I'm sorry - this made me laugh. I'm sorta guessing - No.

And that is interesting - I had not poured over this list and did not know about Justin not being called at all that morning and yet miraculously he was there. *unless* he was called by the g'parents who live down the street (and I'm betting *they* are on that list). Nevertheless, you point out a good reason to believe Justin was already there. But wouldn't the two sons have attested to that by now? Wouldn't they have told the police if Justin happened to be there when they awoke? I would think that would have been in a report somewhere. Just trying to think it through.
@ Stolat, just remember tho, Justin is not related to Sergio, he is related to Becky, and his mother(sergios) is laid up in bed recovering from a stroke(according to pdf) and that the grandfather met the PD at the door and allowed LE to search the entire residence and outside. Also the report says Beckys parents were called who live in Douglas, its pretty detailed about who was contacted and he(justin) is not on the list. It also says that someone they did not get the name of, who they believed to be Beckys brother was there when they arrived.....I wonder who that someone is since her other brothers were named on the report of people called. If you remember in the beginning it was thought Justin was a "brother" of Becky.../"uncle" of Isa, who actually turned out to be a cousin.....just more to think about :)

I too thought that at the start -- but they *did* name a separate man as Becky's brother and they *did* outline specific investigative actions they took related to him. He is definitely separate of Justin - I'll try to dig up his name.

EDITED: Just checked.... it's Bob Rodiguez. That's Becky's brother's name
Yes and he is listed to have been called... the other on the scene person was not identified according to the pdf report. Bob Rodiguez, was also listed as being there as well as called. I will try to copy paste it or if you feel like digging its PDF 2 pg 71 of 90...

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:48 pm

Becky stated she called her parents who live in Douglas. Hector Rodriguez is not her biological father but I have no doubt he raised her and therefore she considers him her father. Becky and her brother Robert Snyder Rodriguez share a father named Robert W. Snyder. Robert S. Rodriguez legally changed his name in May of 2002 from Robert James Snyder to Robert Snyder Rodriguez. Their father, Robert W. Snyder has a campground in WA called the Lost Resort at Lake Ozette. From the pictures I have looked at it appears to be very remote and secluded. Since other family members have obviously been questioned and their homes searched I wonder if he has been questioned or his campground searched by WA police?
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:50 pm

Becky has two brothers whose father is Hector Rodriguez....who are on the list...Louis and Mark.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:55 pm

ishi wrote:Becky stated she called her parents who live in Douglas. Hector Rodriguez is not her biological father but I have no doubt he raised her and therefore she considers him her father. Becky and her brother Robert Snyder Rodriguez share a father named Robert W. Snyder. Robert S. Rodriguez legally changed his name in May of 2002 from Robert James Snyder to Robert Snyder Rodriguez. Their father, Robert W. Snyder has a campground in WA called the Lost Resort at Lake Ozette. From the pictures I have looked at it appears to be very remote and secluded. Since other family members have obviously been questioned and their homes searched I wonder if he has been questioned or his campground searched by WA police?

That *is* very interesting and I would wonder the same. Look at what a botched up job happened between WA state and UT with the Powell's all because they simply did not use common sense enough to compare notes...
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:58 pm

If I could get a weekend away from my yardwork I would drive over there and check out his campground myself. Big sigh....
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:00 pm

Stolat wrote:
ishi wrote:Becky stated she called her parents who live in Douglas. Hector Rodriguez is not her biological father but I have no doubt he raised her and therefore she considers him her father. Becky and her brother Robert Snyder Rodriguez share a father named Robert W. Snyder. Robert S. Rodriguez legally changed his name in May of 2002 from Robert James Snyder to Robert Snyder Rodriguez. Their father, Robert W. Snyder has a campground in WA called the Lost Resort at Lake Ozette. From the pictures I have looked at it appears to be very remote and secluded. Since other family members have obviously been questioned and their homes searched I wonder if he has been questioned or his campground searched by WA police?

That *is* very interesting and I would wonder the same. Look at what a botched up job happened between WA state and UT with the Powell's all because they simply did not use common sense enough to compare notes...

That's if Tucson PD even knows Becky has another "father". I've wondered about that possibility too.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:33 pm

color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:
Stolat wrote:
color77 wrote:[SNIPPED for space]
I wasnt convinced that she wasnt coming home until now, or short of a miracle. The behavior by these two is repulsive from any parent/normal persons perspective. There has not been a word in weeks from either of them, they werent at the car wash last weekend, and that statment from BC from the vigil, "at the end of the day everyones questions will be answered", rings loudly over and over. Really BC how is that exactly? The more I re-read over those PDF's, it at least appears to me that this crime scene has been staged. Bedding all over town, shower curtains, and baseball cap in the car with possible blood stains, the screen supposedly knocked out? 3 dogs in the house reportedly not making a sound while a "stranger" is getting all this done? At 6:38 am, we have mens voices outside, I now believe this time frame to be crucial...i bet any $ those detectives are scouring and pouring over any video from that time till 8AM, I think thats when her body was disposed of and someone helped. If you think this thru the tv was on in living room late into the night(he claims he went to his bed at 5am and fell asleep watching it), Becky was up at 6, PDF's say she didnt leave until 647AM; to think in the middle of the night your a stranger, getting a body out of the house, blankets, putting stuff in a parked car outside....then imagine doing that in broad day light with a parent up showering, getting ready for work ... if we believe Alicia the dogs are going crazy at 638... were just expected to believe that the parents didnt hear anything, BC is out of shower, and ready to practically walk out the door at this time frame. Lastly, the PDF has a long list of the 1st people called when Isa went missing.... and Justin Mastromarino isnt on it!(LIST is located in PDF 2 pg 71 of 90), is that because he was there too? Funny he was first to step in front of that news camera and we havent seen him since! I dont know why I have been on the fence so long not believing these parents didnt do something to her, we have a father NOT allowed any contact with his kids, not even permitted to speak to them via phone....HELLO what was I on the fence thinking about here???!!!! I hate that there is no voice for this precious little lady, not even from the police lately. What is happening here disgusts me. Where is the rest of her family, arent any of them normal....SMH, cannot fathom that no one, no one is willing to speak up for this kid and keep her name out there.

I'm sorry - this made me laugh. I'm sorta guessing - No.

And that is interesting - I had not poured over this list and did not know about Justin not being called at all that morning and yet miraculously he was there. *unless* he was called by the g'parents who live down the street (and I'm betting *they* are on that list). Nevertheless, you point out a good reason to believe Justin was already there. But wouldn't the two sons have attested to that by now? Wouldn't they have told the police if Justin happened to be there when they awoke? I would think that would have been in a report somewhere. Just trying to think it through.
@ Stolat, just remember tho, Justin is not related to Sergio, he is related to Becky, and his mother(sergios) is laid up in bed recovering from a stroke(according to pdf) and that the grandfather met the PD at the door and allowed LE to search the entire residence and outside. Also the report says Beckys parents were called who live in Douglas, its pretty detailed about who was contacted and he(justin) is not on the list. It also says that someone they did not get the name of, who they believed to be Beckys brother was there when they arrived.....I wonder who that someone is since her other brothers were named on the report of people called. If you remember in the beginning it was thought Justin was a "brother" of Becky.../"uncle" of Isa, who actually turned out to be a cousin.....just more to think about :)

I too thought that at the start -- but they *did* name a separate man as Becky's brother and they *did* outline specific investigative actions they took related to him. He is definitely separate of Justin - I'll try to dig up his name.

EDITED: Just checked.... it's Bob Rodiguez. That's Becky's brother's name
Yes and he is listed to have been called... the other on the scene person was not identified according to the pdf report. Bob Rodiguez, was also listed as being there as well as called. I will try to copy paste it or if you feel like digging its PDF 2 pg 71 of 90...

"While I was on the scene, talking to family and gathering information, other family memebers showed up (the ones who showed up were the ones listed as called further down in the report) to help look for (redacted) Robert Rodiguez, his girlfriend Celeste Shenk, Citali Lopez, and one of Rebeccas brothers arrived and then left to circulate the area. I did not talk to him and never got his name." (PDF PG 2 71/90) What I want to know is who was that "brother?" and find it odd that the people who showed up were the ones contacted and then this other brother...

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:03 pm

I think that Officer Orozco's statement could be interpreted a couple of different ways.

One of Rebecca's brothers arrived with Robert Rodriguez, his girlfriend and cousin Citali and the officer did not talk to him and get his name. So that could mean either Mark or Louis Rodriguez potentially. Then the officer got the list of people Sergio and Becky had contacted and listed them and still did not know which one of the other brothers (Mark or Louis) he had seen arrive earlier with Robert Rodriguez.

OR it was Justin Mastromarino and one of the other family members had called Justin and told him what was going on...for example his cousin, Robert Rodriguez. But how did the officer know it was Rebecca's brother? Either Robert, his girlfriend or the cousin, Citlali had to have said the other man was Rebecca's brother because the officer said I did not talk to him and never got his name.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:16 pm

@ ishi.... True, just wondering out loud who that brother was, how le knew it was a brother (since we know he was mistakenly named one in the beginning, wondering if thats where that came from?) and since Justin appeared from media reports to have lived with Celis's prior in the last yr & had the contact he did with them, found it odd he was not on the list of people contacted at the time she went missing... leading me to believe perhaps he was already there?.. AND whether or not other people were in the house that night she went missing has not still been released to my knowledge? Also he was dubbed family spokesperson then never to be heard from again, just makes you think?

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by color77 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:54 pm

Guess we arent the only ones frustrated and thinking the way we do,...
http://tucsoncitizen.com/pats-bits-and-bytes/?p=156

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:13 pm

Good article. Nice to know some citizens of Tucson are frustrated. Apparently not the parents but oh well.

Didn't Justin just sort of fade away after the police spoke of their interest in him? Do you happen to have the link to that first on camera interview he did as family spokesman, Color77? I have looked for it and can't find it and would like to rewatch it. I miss all our pages lost on THM with all the early links in this case.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:49 pm

ishi wrote:Good article. Nice to know some citizens of Tucson are frustrated. Apparently not the parents but oh well.

Didn't Justin just sort of fade away after the police spoke of their interest in him? Do you happen to have the link to that first on camera interview he did as family spokesman, Color77? I have looked for it and can't find it and would like to rewatch it. I miss all our pages lost on THM with all the early links in this case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TriprDDIP1s
Search for missing 6-year-old continues (video from April 21, 2012 Kgun9)
JM is in this video
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:41 pm

color77 wrote:Guess we arent the only ones frustrated and thinking the way we do,...
http://tucsoncitizen.com/pats-bits-and-bytes/?p=156

from color77's link:
Come on….we still have a missing 6 year old….let’s at least keep the news and search alive. And tell us, what we do…the public, the people of Tucson to help? Selling badges and ribbons may raise money but there’s a lot of free workforce here in Tucson that will gladly do whatever to find this little girl………if only someone would tell us what to do. What say local law enforcement? Isn’t there some real and concrete way we can help and not let her fade into old news?

The author doesn't say: What say you Sergio & Becky? She doesn't challenge Becky to keep the story in the National Media even though Becky has that ability.

It may be that in this case as it was in Ayla's, LE finally says that they think someone in the home may have knowledge as to what happened & they don't think there was an abduction.

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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by ishi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:45 pm

Thank you so much, Honeysage. Razz
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by snowbird on Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:57 am

Stolat wrote:
justanopinion wrote:
snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!

When we aks ourselves these questions, what would we do, how would we react - they seem no-brainers to us. And yet i also suspect that none of us are married to someone who has done something to cause CPS to strip them of all parental contact. That's not to excuse the parents - -that's just to say that there are dynamics going on there that we obviously cannot identify with and so we find it boggling to try to interpret their actions. Clearly they are not typical of a "healthy" family and therefore what we are seeing is what happens when crisis bears down on an unhealthy family -- their reactions are atypical. It is frustrating and sad.
I agree to a point however the mother has a daughter missing, if she believes that this child is alive her job is to fight to bring this child home and not to defend the father. The father is an adult and is not in danger. Her sweet daughter is in danger.
I have always had a really bad feeling about this case. Their was always several reasons.
1. I have dogs and no one would get in my yard or my house without them barking up a storm, much less come in my house. I have two labs and a little 5lb poodle and even she would cut up.
There is no way I could sleep with all the racket they would make.
2. The police had dogs in the home that hit on something. Then the police went to where they dumped garbage to look for Isabel.
3. The way her parents have shown no concern in keeping this child in the media. They would not even say they passed a lie detector test. If I passed I would be yelling I passed and you need to move on and help me find my child.
4. The police have never clear the parents, that tells me a lot.

Now after reading some of the other post, they have a defensive comment that we don't know what they are doing because they are stoping at a command center - really do they think that is what is going to bring her back.

Maybe they don't think is their job to get out in the media, that it is the police job to find their child.
I really hate that I am being so hard on the parents, but something is just not right. I just think they know what happen, therefore that is why they are not looking for her. I hope I am wrong.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:16 pm

snowbird wrote:
Stolat wrote:
justanopinion wrote:
snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!

When we aks ourselves these questions, what would we do, how would we react - they seem no-brainers to us. And yet i also suspect that none of us are married to someone who has done something to cause CPS to strip them of all parental contact. That's not to excuse the parents - -that's just to say that there are dynamics going on there that we obviously cannot identify with and so we find it boggling to try to interpret their actions. Clearly they are not typical of a "healthy" family and therefore what we are seeing is what happens when crisis bears down on an unhealthy family -- their reactions are atypical. It is frustrating and sad.
I agree to a point however the mother has a daughter missing, if she believes that this child is alive her job is to fight to bring this child home and not to defend the father. The father is an adult and is not in danger. Her sweet daughter is in danger.
I have always had a really bad feeling about this case. Their was always several reasons.
1. I have dogs and no one would get in my yard or my house without them barking up a storm, much less come in my house. I have two labs and a little 5lb poodle and even she would cut up.
There is no way I could sleep with all the racket they would make.
2. The police had dogs in the home that hit on something. Then the police went to where they dumped garbage to look for Isabel.
3. The way her parents have shown no concern in keeping this child in the media. They would not even say they passed a lie detector test. If I passed I would be yelling I passed and you need to move on and help me find my child.
4. The police have never clear the parents, that tells me a lot.

Now after reading some of the other post, they have a defensive comment that we don't know what they are doing because they are stoping at a command center - really do they think that is what is going to bring her back.

Maybe they don't think is their job to get out in the media, that it is the police job to find their child.
I really hate that I am being so hard on the parents, but something is just not right. I just think they know what happen, therefore that is why they are not looking for her. I hope I am wrong.

Snowbird - I completely agree with you and didn't mean to come across as justifying their behavior as acceptable in any way -- what I'm saying is that they appear to be a very dysfunctional family despite their "conventional" outwardly appearances and social interractions - that is evident based on what seems to be going on behind closed doors. What is apparent to you and me and almost everyone here as being the *best* course of action and reaction to this tragedy seems to be completely out of the relm of the alter-reality around which this family pivots. There is definitely something hinky going on - whether it directly relates to her disappearance or not.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by snowbird on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:59 pm

Stolat wrote:
snowbird wrote:
Stolat wrote:
justanopinion wrote:
snowbird wrote:What creeps me out about both of the parents is how no one is out their crying for Isabel's return. This little girl has seemed to be forgotten by her parents. I really don't get how they are not using the media to keep her on everybody's mind.

So what if the press asked hard question? I would not care what I had to answer if it meant keeping my child in the press so everybody would keep looking.


Snowbird I agree there is nothing they could ask that I would not be prepared to answer to keep the attention on my child. As much as the father in the Sierra Lamar case is not on my best parents awards list ... I at least respect that he declared his RSO status immediately so that there would be no time wasted and that they could get to the business of solving her abduction. He has faced some very tough questions and still gets out there looking for his daughter. I wish these parents had even 1/4 of the interest in finding Isa and would publicly keep her name in the media by getting off their rears and do some interviews etc... not those flyers that no one really looks at! Shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of immediacy by these parents!

When we aks ourselves these questions, what would we do, how would we react - they seem no-brainers to us. And yet i also suspect that none of us are married to someone who has done something to cause CPS to strip them of all parental contact. That's not to excuse the parents - -that's just to say that there are dynamics going on there that we obviously cannot identify with and so we find it boggling to try to interpret their actions. Clearly they are not typical of a "healthy" family and therefore what we are seeing is what happens when crisis bears down on an unhealthy family -- their reactions are atypical. It is frustrating and sad.
I agree to a point however the mother has a daughter missing, if she believes that this child is alive her job is to fight to bring this child home and not to defend the father. The father is an adult and is not in danger. Her sweet daughter is in danger.
I have always had a really bad feeling about this case. Their was always several reasons.
1. I have dogs and no one would get in my yard or my house without them barking up a storm, much less come in my house. I have two labs and a little 5lb poodle and even she would cut up.
There is no way I could sleep with all the racket they would make.
2. The police had dogs in the home that hit on something. Then the police went to where they dumped garbage to look for Isabel.
3. The way her parents have shown no concern in keeping this child in the media. They would not even say they passed a lie detector test. If I passed I would be yelling I passed and you need to move on and help me find my child.
4. The police have never clear the parents, that tells me a lot.

Now after reading some of the other post, they have a defensive comment that we don't know what they are doing because they are stoping at a command center - really do they think that is what is going to bring her back.

Maybe they don't think is their job to get out in the media, that it is the police job to find their child.
I really hate that I am being so hard on the parents, but something is just not right. I just think they know what happen, therefore that is why they are not looking for her. I hope I am wrong.

Snowbird - I completely agree with you and didn't mean to come across as justifying their behavior as acceptable in any way -- what I'm saying is that they appear to be a very dysfunctional family despite their "conventional" outwardly appearances and social interractions - that is evident based on what seems to be going on behind closed doors. What is apparent to you and me and almost everyone here as being the *best* course of action and reaction to this tragedy seems to be completely out of the relm of the alter-reality around which this family pivots. There is definitely something hinky going on - whether it directly relates to her disappearance or not.
I knew you weren't trying to justify them. I was just tagging off your post because I had something to say on the subject. It is so hard doing this in print Laughing In fact you are able to look at this from another angle and I appreciate your opinion. I was just trying to express why I felt so angry about her parents not talking about finding her. It wasn't directed at you but I wanted to express how I felt on the subject. Sorry for the miss understanding, Sometimes I don't communicate in print as well as a lot of people who have been posting. hug
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Puzzler on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:02 pm

On Blink on Crime, a poster has said that she saw with her own eyes Sergio with the family.

Blink confirmed that she has received this information from a few additional sources.

Of course, that brings up a lot of questions, such as is the CPS ban has been lifted?

http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/05/29/isabel-celis-abduction-breaking-news-docs-show-blood-in-bedroom-police-eye-family-and-neighbor/


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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:50 pm

Puzzler wrote:On Blink on Crime, a poster has said that she saw with her own eyes Sergio with the family.

Blink confirmed that she has received this information from a few additional sources.

Of course, that brings up a lot of questions, such as is the CPS ban has been lifted?

http://blinkoncrime.com/2012/05/29/isabel-celis-abduction-breaking-news-docs-show-blood-in-bedroom-police-eye-family-and-neighbor/



Puzzler,

I believe that agreement was finite, like many of them are.

I do not believe that the details of that voluntary agreement were released to the public, so I guess it would just be considered my speculation.

However from prior experience, I would say that it is a finite agreement and once it expires it would be up for review by CPS.
SC is, and would be, free at any time to seek for a reversal if it were an order, and he would have a very good chance at it's success.

It is only a voluntary agreement.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by Puzzler on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:17 am

I find it interesting that is isn't making the "news" in Tuscon.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

Post by snowbird on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:26 am

I am not surprise, the parents have not tried to keep this case alive.
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Re: Isabel Celis -- Missing 4/20/12 #2

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