Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:33 am

Tamta wrote:Okay: MY DEAD HORSE


Back to my persisting question about why a Statement of Facts was released and only a Statement of PRobable Cause has been mentioned, though not released, in the press.

Statement of Facts is a narrative of facts in a case of Civil Action.

Statement of Probable Cause is the narrative of facts in a Criminal Ca
se.

Anyone with CA statute knowledge?

Is this standard to start Civil action(wrongful death suit maybe) with this type of crime in CA or the US, or is a Civil and Criminal Case being simultaneously brought forth against Torres?

What is going on here?


http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kion/statement_of_fact.pdf

http://wap.ktvu.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/garcia-torres-set-enter-plea-sierra-lamar-case/nPH2D/


ooh - that's a good point - perhaps it's protocol in a suspected murder case to line up the ducks in that order so that you have that recourse available if necessary.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:40 am

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:Okay: MY DEAD HORSE


Back to my persisting question about why a Statement of Facts was released and only a Statement of PRobable Cause has been mentioned, though not released, in the press.

Statement of Facts is a narrative of facts in a case of Civil Action.

Statement of Probable Cause is the narrative of facts in a Criminal Ca
se.

Anyone with CA statute knowledge?

Is this standard to start Civil action(wrongful death suit maybe) with this type of crime in CA or the US, or is a Civil and Criminal Case being simultaneously brought forth against Torres?

What is going on here?


http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kion/statement_of_fact.pdf

http://wap.ktvu.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/garcia-torres-set-enter-plea-sierra-lamar-case/nPH2D/


ooh - that's a good point - perhaps it's protocol in a suspected murder case to line up the ducks in that order so that you have that recourse available if necessary.

Possibly.
However, I'm going to look into this more.

The Superior Court has jurisdiction over both criminal and civil cases in CA.
No Plea was entered by Torres- which is a refusal to accept jurisdiction- to enter into the law.

It seems like a possible challenge is going to be made by Torres.

I am curious about the legal course here.


Last edited by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:48 am

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:Okay: MY DEAD HORSE


Back to my persisting question about why a Statement of Facts was released and only a Statement of PRobable Cause has been mentioned, though not released, in the press.

Statement of Facts is a narrative of facts in a case of Civil Action.

Statement of Probable Cause is the narrative of facts in a Criminal Ca
se.

Anyone with CA statute knowledge?

Is this standard to start Civil action(wrongful death suit maybe) with this type of crime in CA or the US, or is a Civil and Criminal Case being simultaneously brought forth against Torres?

What is going on here?


http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kion/statement_of_fact.pdf

http://wap.ktvu.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/garcia-torres-set-enter-plea-sierra-lamar-case/nPH2D/


ooh - that's a good point - perhaps it's protocol in a suspected murder case to line up the ducks in that order so that you have that recourse available if necessary.

Possibly.
However, I'm going to look into this more.

I redirected this question to a paralegal via PM who posts on a different thread. She is not in CA but she is very helpful with providing reasearch assistance. She may have quick access to resource/research apps.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:50 am

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:Okay: MY DEAD HORSE


Back to my persisting question about why a Statement of Facts was released and only a Statement of PRobable Cause has been mentioned, though not released, in the press.

Statement of Facts is a narrative of facts in a case of Civil Action.

Statement of Probable Cause is the narrative of facts in a Criminal Ca
se.

Anyone with CA statute knowledge?

Is this standard to start Civil action(wrongful death suit maybe) with this type of crime in CA or the US, or is a Civil and Criminal Case being simultaneously brought forth against Torres?

What is going on here?


http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kion/statement_of_fact.pdf

http://wap.ktvu.com/site.htm?targetUrl=http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/crime-law/garcia-torres-set-enter-plea-sierra-lamar-case/nPH2D/


ooh - that's a good point - perhaps it's protocol in a suspected murder case to line up the ducks in that order so that you have that recourse available if necessary.

Possibly.
However, I'm going to look into this more.

I redirected this question to a paralegal via PM who posts on a different thread. She is not in CA but she is very helpful with providing reasearch assistance. She may have quick access to resource/research apps.

Great.
I only have NY law hook up.

Did you mention he entered 'No Plea'?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:57 am

kimi_SFC wrote:Hey yall....

Glad I missed the fireworks as well. Found this video today and thought I'd share. My heart is beyond broken and tears are falling for Sierra and the LaMar family.

Sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w99kGnzl5rQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sierra needs to come home. She's the reason we're here, exchanging ideas, cyber sleuthing, and fighting the digital good fight. I appreciate the RESPECTFUL forum we have here. It's a reflection of how we view the victims and a testament to where so many of us came from (THM).

*stepping off my soapbox now to go hug my kids*

Kimi- Thank you so much for sharing this video! It brought me to tears. I can't imagine how Marlene, Steve and Danielle must feel. I never want to be in their shoes. I never want to feel their pain. I pray Sierra is brought home to them!

I want my energy to be spent on fighting the good fight. We can learn from cases and share with our friends and families the dangers that are out there. I did not know about Tumblr until Sierra. It is because of Sierra I found out someone very close to me has a Tumblr account. My own battle right now. No parent(s) is ever perfect. Live happens and so much in this world is out of our control. Judging each other isn't going to bring Sierra back. As long as YOU know what kind of parent you are, you don't have to explain yourself to someone in cyberspace. Scroll on, use your energy for the good fight, for Sierra!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:09 pm

Lash wrote:
kimi_SFC wrote:Hey yall....

Glad I missed the fireworks as well. Found this video today and thought I'd share. My heart is beyond broken and tears are falling for Sierra and the LaMar family.

Sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w99kGnzl5rQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sierra needs to come home. She's the reason we're here, exchanging ideas, cyber sleuthing, and fighting the digital good fight. I appreciate the RESPECTFUL forum we have here. It's a reflection of how we view the victims and a testament to where so many of us came from (THM).

*stepping off my soapbox now to go hug my kids*

Kimi- Thank you so much for sharing this video! It brought me to tears. I can't imagine how Marlene, Steve and Danielle must feel. I never want to be in their shoes. I never want to feel their pain. I pray Sierra is brought home to them!

I want my energy to be spent on fighting the good fight. We can learn from cases and share with our friends and families the dangers that are out there. I did not know about Tumblr until Sierra. It is because of Sierra I found out someone very close to me has a Tumblr account. My own battle right now. No parent(s) is ever perfect. Live happens and so much in this world is out of our control. Judging each other isn't going to bring Sierra back. As long as YOU know what kind of parent you are, you don't have to explain yourself to someone in cyberspace. Scroll on, use your energy for the good fight, for Sierra!

Me too Lash - I was unaware of Tumblr. I knew about mbuzzy (also a romping ground for pedophiles) but not Tumblr. They seem to change sites as often as McDonalds changes XX Millions Served. Even if you're tech savvy, you pretty much have to have no life to keep up with *all* of them. But it's blogs like these that are helpful in finding out what the big offenders are. I figure if I can use my sleuthing skills to track down cyber specifics on perps here, I can do the same to monitor my daughter's online presence. Not only should I - but it's *required* -- a must for any parent to be diligent. Fortunately my daughter is still too preoccupied with Monster High dolls to yet have Tumblr or mbuzzy on her radar. No Facebook or Twitter acct, and she really doesn't want one either. Facebook is reaching a peak in her circle and most of her friends now complain about it rather than rant about it -- they say it causes more friendship wars, jealousies and breakups (for the older kids) than it does good. If that's what the junior high kids are saying, then that's an indication of what the next 10 years might look like for online media -- the Jr. High generation are getting fed up with Facebook and having the whole world see your life in cyberspace...
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Chester_from_THM on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:18 pm

justanopinion wrote:I think that my problem with Marlene totally stems from her language and it makes me question if they arrested the right person?

when Marlene uses language like "I usually leave work at ...." there seems to be the second part of the sentence missing; the specific for example "but today I left at ...."
"Sierra usually leaves for the bus @ " which then implies she has no specific reference...
The story from Marlene has been embellished over time; for example the placing of lunch money in the pocket of the purse.
Marlene does not seem to be detail oriented. Which makes me assume (and yes I realize....) that either she was not paying much attention or really did not spend much time with Sierra.

Sierra's Twitter and Tumbler accounts paint a picture of not a close relationship between mother and daughter.

. . .

Respectfully snipped. Justa, I have always had a problem with Marlene's statements, too. Until this guy was arrested, I had suspicions about her and her boyfriend.

Her demeanor seemed off too. I just have never detected any panic or anxiety. But do feel she has been drugged.

Changing stories, timelines out of order, use of Sierra's name in past tense, seemingly making up details that sound implausible.

I have thought that if she was not involved or covering up for someone, then perhaps the alternate explanation is that she had a strained relationship with Sierra and/or was so hands off that she really had no clue what Sierra was doing, and that is what she was trying to cover up.

I do believe the police have the right suspect, and so in my mind, these types of problems must account for Marlene's 'off' behavior and statements.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:26 pm

Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:You're welcome Freckles!

After putting together the timing. I don't believe Sierra would be home until 4:00ish. Marlene was driving from Fremont to Morgan Hill, a 40-45 minute drive per Google Maps. I don't believe it was at 3:45 when Marlene started to worry. It was the unanswered text messages around 4:00-4:15. In my opinion once Marlene got home around 4:30 and did not see Sierra that was when the worry really began.

The article I posted from Mercury News states Marlene drove to the HS that afternoon. Since afternoon is before 6:00pm. I am assuming that is what Marlene did next, drove to Sobrato HS. The article states Marlene made "more" calls to friends and family. In my opinion Marlene once returning from the HS attempted to make phone calls. Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to call make phone calls. Even though she choose to leave the team, when Sierra first moved to MH she joined a competitive cheerleading team. It is common to share rides to practice and meets, usually exchanging phone numbers. I think it is fair to speculate Marlene had the phone numbers of some of the mothers. Sierra did also make some friends in MH. I think it is feasible Marlene attempted to contact some of these people.

In my opinion there is evidence to show that Marlene and even Steve made attempts to call friends, family and drive to her HS before receiving a 6:00 email. Then after further phone calls, then called LE. However, it is all my opinion.

Thanks for all the timelines Lash - great work. I don't have the link, but I think it had been cleared up earlier that the competitive cheerleading time she joined was at Freemont and she had not joined any teams upon transferring to MH. I think that was substantiated some time ago. She only joined one cheer team in her Freshman year, and that was at Freemont. It would have likely been too late to join MH in the middle of the year.

Stolat- You're welcome and thank you. You're correct there has been some confusion with the cheerleading. Sierra was a cheerleader for her high school in Fremont, the Washington Huskies. Sierra was not a cheerleader at her new high school in Morgan Hill, Sobrato. When Sierra moved to Morgan Hill she joined a "competitive" cheer team not related to either high school. It did not work out for her and I believe she quit the team in February. I have read more than just this source, this is the one I had bookmarked.

Snip- http://www.chelseahoffman.com/2012/05/exclusive-cousin-of-sierra-lamar-to.html

Keith LaMar(KL): I am closest with my uncle Steve (Sierra's dad), but I am also close with Marlene (I don't remember them ever not being together). I remember Danielle being born, and Sierra was the first baby whose diaper I ever changed. This especially comes in handy now that I have a 3-year-old son who is especially resistant to potty-training. I don't know of any specific incidents that would lead me to wonder whether Sierra might run away. However, Marlene called me some time in February, and asked for some help on how to handle a situation Sierra was involved in. Sierra was part of a cheer group (outside of school), and apparently they were treating her very badly. There was even suspicion that the girls had dropped Sierra intentionally during some routines at practice. Marlene wanted Sierra to quit the group. I don't know much more about this situation, but it seemed pretty contentious.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:35 pm

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/sierra-alive-search-presses-on/article_478ea94a-9b0d-11e1-bcfa-0019bb30f31a.html

Sierra, a 15-year-old sophomore at Sobrato High School and a cheerleader for the Black Diamond Elite club squad in San Jose

more info on her cheerleading...i know there were photos/talk of her squad in the beginning attending vigils.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:39 pm

Chester_from_THM wrote:
justanopinion wrote:I think that my problem with Marlene totally stems from her language and it makes me question if they arrested the right person?

when Marlene uses language like "I usually leave work at ...." there seems to be the second part of the sentence missing; the specific for example "but today I left at ...."
"Sierra usually leaves for the bus @ " which then implies she has no specific reference...
The story from Marlene has been embellished over time; for example the placing of lunch money in the pocket of the purse.
Marlene does not seem to be detail oriented. Which makes me assume (and yes I realize....) that either she was not paying much attention or really did not spend much time with Sierra.

Sierra's Twitter and Tumbler accounts paint a picture of not a close relationship between mother and daughter.

. . .

Respectfully snipped. Justa, I have always had a problem with Marlene's statements, too. Until this guy was arrested, I had suspicions about her and her boyfriend.

Her demeanor seemed off too. I just have never detected any panic or anxiety. But do feel she has been drugged.

Changing stories, timelines out of order, use of Sierra's name in past tense, seemingly making up details that sound implausible.

I have thought that if she was not involved or covering up for someone, then perhaps the alternate explanation is that she had a strained relationship with Sierra and/or was so hands off that she really had no clue what Sierra was doing, and that is what she was trying to cover up.

I do believe the police have the right suspect, and so in my mind, these types of problems must account for Marlene's 'off' behavior and statements.

I believe the DA has a suspect and the charging of that suspect puts the process of scrutiny and deliberation into motion, so that truth and accountability will be made possible. After which the public and more importantly the family can enter into the process of acceptance, however rational or irrational the outcome may be.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:41 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/sierra-alive-search-presses-on/article_478ea94a-9b0d-11e1-bcfa-0019bb30f31a.html

Sierra, a 15-year-old sophomore at Sobrato High School and a cheerleader for the Black Diamond Elite club squad in San Jose

more info on her cheerleading...i know there were photos/talk of her squad in the beginning attending vigils.

Is this the squad that she was reported as having quit or did she quit the squad in Freemont?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:49 pm

Lash wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:You're welcome Freckles!

After putting together the timing. I don't believe Sierra would be home until 4:00ish. Marlene was driving from Fremont to Morgan Hill, a 40-45 minute drive per Google Maps. I don't believe it was at 3:45 when Marlene started to worry. It was the unanswered text messages around 4:00-4:15. In my opinion once Marlene got home around 4:30 and did not see Sierra that was when the worry really began.

The article I posted from Mercury News states Marlene drove to the HS that afternoon. Since afternoon is before 6:00pm. I am assuming that is what Marlene did next, drove to Sobrato HS. The article states Marlene made "more" calls to friends and family. In my opinion Marlene once returning from the HS attempted to make phone calls. Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to call make phone calls. Even though she choose to leave the team, when Sierra first moved to MH she joined a competitive cheerleading team. It is common to share rides to practice and meets, usually exchanging phone numbers. I think it is fair to speculate Marlene had the phone numbers of some of the mothers. Sierra did also make some friends in MH. I think it is feasible Marlene attempted to contact some of these people.

In my opinion there is evidence to show that Marlene and even Steve made attempts to call friends, family and drive to her HS before receiving a 6:00 email. Then after further phone calls, then called LE. However, it is all my opinion.

Thanks for all the timelines Lash - great work. I don't have the link, but I think it had been cleared up earlier that the competitive cheerleading time she joined was at Freemont and she had not joined any teams upon transferring to MH. I think that was substantiated some time ago. She only joined one cheer team in her Freshman year, and that was at Freemont. It would have likely been too late to join MH in the middle of the year.

Stolat- You're welcome and thank you. You're correct there has been some confusion with the cheerleading. Sierra was a cheerleader for her high school in Fremont, the Washington Huskies. Sierra was not a cheerleader at her new high school in Morgan Hill, Sobrato. When Sierra moved to Morgan Hill she joined a "competitive" cheer team not related to either high school. It did not work out for her and I believe she quit the team in February. I have read more than just this source, this is the one I had bookmarked.

Snip- http://www.chelseahoffman.com/2012/05/exclusive-cousin-of-sierra-lamar-to.html

Keith LaMar(KL): I am closest with my uncle Steve (Sierra's dad), but I am also close with Marlene (I don't remember them ever not being together). I remember Danielle being born, and Sierra was the first baby whose diaper I ever changed. This especially comes in handy now that I have a 3-year-old son who is especially resistant to potty-training. I don't know of any specific incidents that would lead me to wonder whether Sierra might run away. However, Marlene called me some time in February, and asked for some help on how to handle a situation Sierra was involved in. Sierra was part of a cheer group (outside of school), and apparently they were treating her very badly. There was even suspicion that the girls had dropped Sierra intentionally during some routines at practice. Marlene wanted Sierra to quit the group. I don't know much more about this situation, but it seemed pretty contentious.

Thanks Lash - got it. So Sierra was not a part of any cheerleading squad at the time she went missing. That part was important for me to isolate because I had questioned what afterschool activities she had lined up that might require a change of clothes.

Cheerleading was not one of them. As you have confirmed, she *had* briefly been involved in a non-school oriented team but quit (or was cut) at some point.

Interesting about her being "bullied" by the girls on the MH squad. Girls can be such bitches, no? I identified a few "mean girls" in my daughter's K-class and was surprised they started out that young being prissy bullies. 6 years later, not much has changed for those select few. Fortunately my daughter just laughs them off now, but for a few years, they could really get to her. I wonder if those same girls on Sierra's squad are now involved at her vigils.


Last edited by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:49 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/sierra-alive-search-presses-on/article_478ea94a-9b0d-11e1-bcfa-0019bb30f31a.html

Sierra, a 15-year-old sophomore at Sobrato High School and a cheerleader for the Black Diamond Elite club squad in San Jose

more info on her cheerleading...i know there were photos/talk of her squad in the beginning attending vigils.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

Amy Redmond, from San Jose, holds a candle and wears a t-shirt that the All Star Cheer squad had made up for Sierra LaMar's vigil. Redmond's daughter is a member of the team with LaMar.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

From left, Amy Redmond, her daughter Kyla, 15, and Mariah Ross, 15, all from San Jose, talk about Sierra LaMar. LaMar was on their All Star Cheer squad and the team had t-shirts and candles made up for LaMar's vigil.

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/community/hundreds-gather-to-pray-for-missing-teen-sierra-lamar/article_81a04caf-5af8-5fc4-99fc-c1b01d00b314.html?mode=story
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:55 pm

Lash wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/sierra-alive-search-presses-on/article_478ea94a-9b0d-11e1-bcfa-0019bb30f31a.html

Sierra, a 15-year-old sophomore at Sobrato High School and a cheerleader for the Black Diamond Elite club squad in San Jose

more info on her cheerleading...i know there were photos/talk of her squad in the beginning attending vigils.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

Amy Redmond, from San Jose, holds a candle and wears a t-shirt that the All Star Cheer squad had made up for Sierra LaMar's vigil. Redmond's daughter is a member of the team with LaMar.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

From left, Amy Redmond, her daughter Kyla, 15, and Mariah Ross, 15, all from San Jose, talk about Sierra LaMar. LaMar was on their All Star Cheer squad and the team had t-shirts and candles made up for LaMar's vigil.

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/community/hundreds-gather-to-pray-for-missing-teen-sierra-lamar/article_81a04caf-5af8-5fc4-99fc-c1b01d00b314.html?mode=story

So is this the cheer team that was not associated with any school that was the last cheer team she participated on back in Feb (but not at the time of her disappearance) ??

If so, I wonder if any of these girls are the girls Sierra's cousin mentions was so mean to her and dropped her on purpose (according to Sierra via her cousin Keith). How ironic.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:03 pm

Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/sierra-alive-search-presses-on/article_478ea94a-9b0d-11e1-bcfa-0019bb30f31a.html

Sierra, a 15-year-old sophomore at Sobrato High School and a cheerleader for the Black Diamond Elite club squad in San Jose

more info on her cheerleading...i know there were photos/talk of her squad in the beginning attending vigils.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

Amy Redmond, from San Jose, holds a candle and wears a t-shirt that the All Star Cheer squad had made up for Sierra LaMar's vigil. Redmond's daughter is a member of the team with LaMar.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

From left, Amy Redmond, her daughter Kyla, 15, and Mariah Ross, 15, all from San Jose, talk about Sierra LaMar. LaMar was on their All Star Cheer squad and the team had t-shirts and candles made up for LaMar's vigil.

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/community/hundreds-gather-to-pray-for-missing-teen-sierra-lamar/article_81a04caf-5af8-5fc4-99fc-c1b01d00b314.html?mode=story

So is this the cheer team that was not associated with any school that was the last cheer team she participated on back in Feb (but not at the time of her disappearance) ??

If so, I wonder if any of these girls are the girls Sierra's cousin mentions was so mean to her and dropped her on purpose (according to Sierra via her cousin Keith). How ironic.

If they are participating, good for them!

BBM

Have I been wrong?

I thought that at the time of her disappearance, that SIerra was not participating in an after school activity or at least a competitive activity.

Did I just infer that because it was not explicit or because of the questions/answers surrounding why she would have packed clothing for herself that day.

Does anyone know the fact?

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:20 pm

http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/updated-sierra-lamar-murder-suspect-waives-arraignment-on-murder-charge
Updated: Sierra LaMar Murder Suspect Waives Arraignment on Murder Charge

Criminologist Steve Clark, an attorney who works as a legal analyst providing commentary on high-profile court cases for various news outlets, explained Mandel asked for more time to meet with Garcia-Torres to analyze the forensic evidence allegedly linking him to Sierra's murder.
__________________________________________

let's hope his lawyer is trying to talk some sense into him
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:33 pm

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/sierra-alive-search-presses-on/article_478ea94a-9b0d-11e1-bcfa-0019bb30f31a.html

Sierra, a 15-year-old sophomore at Sobrato High School and a cheerleader for the Black Diamond Elite club squad in San Jose

more info on her cheerleading...i know there were photos/talk of her squad in the beginning attending vigils.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

Amy Redmond, from San Jose, holds a candle and wears a t-shirt that the All Star Cheer squad had made up for Sierra LaMar's vigil. Redmond's daughter is a member of the team with LaMar.

Vigil for Sierra LaMar

From left, Amy Redmond, her daughter Kyla, 15, and Mariah Ross, 15, all from San Jose, talk about Sierra LaMar. LaMar was on their All Star Cheer squad and the team had t-shirts and candles made up for LaMar's vigil.

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/community/hundreds-gather-to-pray-for-missing-teen-sierra-lamar/article_81a04caf-5af8-5fc4-99fc-c1b01d00b314.html?mode=story

So is this the cheer team that was not associated with any school that was the last cheer team she participated on back in Feb (but not at the time of her disappearance) ??

If so, I wonder if any of these girls are the girls Sierra's cousin mentions was so mean to her and dropped her on purpose (according to Sierra via her cousin Keith). How ironic.

If they are participating, good for them!

BBM

Have I been wrong?

I thought that at the time of her disappearance, that SIerra was not participating in an after school activity or at least a competitive activity.

Did I just infer that because it was not explicit or because of the questions/answers surrounding why she would have packed clothing for herself that day.

Does anyone know the fact?


Lash seemed to point out a few posts above that she was not currently active in any cheer team after school at the time of her disappearance. I asked for the same reason as yourself.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:37 pm

http://www.kron.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=4281
Arraignment Delayed Again for Sierra Lamar's Accused Killer

video of court proceedings at the link above...get to see and hear the perp!!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:38 pm

Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:58 pm

Just a tidbit I found when reviewing HLN transcripts.

3-20-12 w/Rita Cosby- http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/20/ng.01.html

COSBY: Sheriff Laurie Smith, what about surveillance tapes, too, in the area? As you point out, we were just talking, we don`t know how she left the home. You know, carried out, we don`t know at this point the details. Is there any surveillance in that area?

SMITH: We have been looking for all opportunities for surveillance tapes. We have pulled all of the county transit bus stop to see if she got on a public transit, all homes in the area, and we`re looking actively. But again, it`s a little bit remote and we haven`t located any surveillance tapes other than public transit tapes and there`s no information -- and we`re still reviewing tapes -- that she took any type of transit.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:53 pm

Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Tamta wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.


I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:11 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.


I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.

The bag is extremely important in this case.

For me, it's the obstruction to being able to feel confident about this particular suspect.

It defies physics.
It confuses scenarios in my mind.

It defies logic that a perp who is taking someone against their will from
The get go would place to conceal those items prior ir subsequent to committing the crime.
And leaving behind damning evidence.
I can't accept that assertion as a supposition.

Why weren't books scattered and bag disposed of with Sierra?
When did her clothes get removed and why?
Where is the make up and her shoes?

This fact alone makes me question the DNA evidence, which I learned yesterday, is anything but conclusive in terms of identifying Torres as the responsible individual.

The Placemnet of the items and the fact that they contained the neatly folded clothing Sierra wore that day does not conclusively point to an abduction and potential sexual homicide.

These bag to me is very much indicative of the circumstances surrounding what happened to Sierra.




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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:19 pm

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.


I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.

The bag is extremely important in this case.

For me, it's the obstruction to being able to feel confident about this particular suspect.

It defies physics.
It confuses scenarios in my mind.

It defies logic that a perp who is taking someone against their will from
The get go would place to conceal those items prior ir subsequent to committing the crime.
And leaving behind damning evidence.
I can't accept that assertion as a supposition.

Why weren't books scattered and bag disposed of with Sierra?
When did her clothes get removed and why?
Where is the make up and her shoes?

This fact alone makes me question the DNA evidence, which I learned yesterday, is anything but conclusive in terms of identifying Torres as the responsible individual.

The Placemnet of the items and the fact that they contained the neatly folded clothing Sierra wore that day does not conclusively point to an abduction and potential sexual homicide.

These bag to me is very much indicative of the circumstances surrounding what happened to Sierra.



One thing we know for sure - we know that we don't know for sure that she wore those clothes that day.

No one saw her with those clothes on. We can deduct by the associative theory -- A leads to B leads to C, etc. But we don't know. We *think* Torres was with Sierra that day based on DNA evidence. We *know* the clothes belong to Sierra based on DNA evidence (and Marlene). We *don't think* Torres was with Sierra on a different day. Torre's DNA is *most likely* the DNA on Sierra's clothes. Therefore we *think* those are the only clothes Sierra had in her possession that day - therefore we assume those were the clothes Sierra had on - the clothes she left with.

I'm somewhat ok with that assumption. But because that bag troubles me so, I'm not okay with ruling out the notion that there may be another set of clothes -- intended for that day.[i]
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:32 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.


I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.

The bag is extremely important in this case.

For me, it's the obstruction to being able to feel confident about this particular suspect.

It defies physics.
It confuses scenarios in my mind.

It defies logic that a perp who is taking someone against their will from
The get go would place to conceal those items prior ir subsequent to committing the crime.
And leaving behind damning evidence.
I can't accept that assertion as a supposition.

Why weren't books scattered and bag disposed of with Sierra?
When did her clothes get removed and why?
Where is the make up and her shoes?

This fact alone makes me question the DNA evidence, which I learned yesterday, is anything but conclusive in terms of identifying Torres as the responsible individual.

The Placemnet of the items and the fact that they contained the neatly folded clothing Sierra wore that day does not conclusively point to an abduction and potential sexual homicide.

These bag to me is very much indicative of the circumstances surrounding what happened to Sierra.



One thing we know for sure - we know that we don't know for sure that she wore those clothes that day.

No one saw her with those clothes on. We can deduct by the associative theory -- A leads to B leads to C, etc. But we don't know. We *think* Torres was with Sierra that day based on DNA evidence. We *know* the clothes belong to Sierra based on DNA evidence (and Marlene). We *don't think* Torres was with Sierra on a different day. Torre's DNA is *most likely* the DNA on Sierra's clothes. Therefore we *think* those are the only clothes Sierra had in her possession that day - therefore we assume those were the clothes Sierra had on - the clothes she left with.

I'm somewhat ok with that assumption. But because that bag troubles me so, I'm not okay with ruling out the notion that there may be another set of clothes -- intended for that day.[i]

The clothes being worn by her and discovered clearly lead the imagination to consider added scenario of sexual assault(motive) and evidence of his associating with her.

Right now, I think the bag with clothes are important in influencing public opinion And maybe were important to the perp who may have intended to derail LE by making it seem equally plausible that she willingly intended to leave the house and not possibly go to school.

According to the SOF, these clothes were worn by her by saying she photos herself in them that day.
A SOF is supposed to be very simple, use only legally necessary language, and NOT ANY disputable facts.

In lieu of the SOF, at the moment I have to consider those her clothes until it gets disputed.

Therefore-
I can't make the scenario work!!!!




Last edited by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:41 pm

Tamta--
IMO, the books were not scattered because they are a direct link to Sierra, a reverence for education,or because if they were damaged, they would have to be paid for. They have a financial value.

The contents of the purse that are missing are not of consequence to the perp; the purse, however, being an expensive item, could be returned to the family and/or reused. It has a financial value.

Have these items been fingerprinted?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:45 pm

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.


I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.

The bag is extremely important in this case.

For me, it's the obstruction to being able to feel confident about this particular suspect.

It defies physics.
It confuses scenarios in my mind.

It defies logic that a perp who is taking someone against their will from
The get go would place to conceal those items prior ir subsequent to committing the crime.
And leaving behind damning evidence.
I can't accept that assertion as a supposition.

Why weren't books scattered and bag disposed of with Sierra?
When did her clothes get removed and why?
Where is the make up and her shoes?

This fact alone makes me question the DNA evidence, which I learned yesterday, is anything but conclusive in terms of identifying Torres as the responsible individual.

The Placemnet of the items and the fact that they contained the neatly folded clothing Sierra wore that day does not conclusively point to an abduction and potential sexual homicide.

These bag to me is very much indicative of the circumstances surrounding what happened to Sierra.



One thing we know for sure - we know that we don't know for sure that she wore those clothes that day.

No one saw her with those clothes on. We can deduct by the associative theory -- A leads to B leads to C, etc. But we don't know. We *think* Torres was with Sierra that day based on DNA evidence. We *know* the clothes belong to Sierra based on DNA evidence (and Marlene). We *don't think* Torres was with Sierra on a different day. Torre's DNA is *most likely* the DNA on Sierra's clothes. Therefore we *think* those are the only clothes Sierra had in her possession that day - therefore we assume those were the clothes Sierra had on - the clothes she left with.

I'm somewhat ok with that assumption. But because that bag troubles me so, I'm not okay with ruling out the notion that there may be another set of clothes -- intended for that day.[i]

The clothes being worn by her and discovered clearly lead the imagination to consider added scenario of sexual assault(motive) and evidence of his associating with her.

Right now, I think the bag with clothes are important in influencing public opinion And maybe were important to the perp who may have intended to derail LE by making it seem equally plausible that she willingly intended to leave the house and not possibly go to school.

No players in this case need to commit to these clothes being worn by her really unless the powerful evidence of her murder is on these clothes, then they are important because the case against Torres is based upon his murdering Sierra.

The human mind will do it automatically until instructed directly by the judge that they can not.


I have definitely entertained the idea that the importance of the clothes placed there was to mislead others into thinking her departure was voluntary. Just not sure yet.

We have been told that skin fragments were "embedded" into the clothing. They used that word specificially. I would like to know the significance of that word used to describe the deposite of skin. Does "embedded" imply force? Does it imply that the mere brushing of skin is not sufficient enough to deposite the skin in the manner described - that it has to have more force applied - a struggle? How does skin get "embedded" into material? Is that a term common to forensic analysis?
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4 Quote Rule

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:47 pm

It just dawned on me that there appears to be no 4 Quote Rule enforced on this site....

YEEEEHAAWWWWW

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:49 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- At the time Sierra disappeared she did not have an after school sports activity that would require a change of clothing. Marlene was asked on Nancy Grace if Sierra had practice after school (because NG is remembering when she was young and a cheerleader). Marlene said Sierra did not have any activities. I do not have a link. I searched the transcript and of course it is missing. I recall the question because of Nancy's sidebar comment.

I was postulating that Marlene did not need Sierra's cell phone to place calls to Sierra's friends on the day she disappeared. Marlene most likely had contacts for the mothers of the girls on her most recent squad and even her squad from Fremont. I also remember on AMW, Marlene mentioned she was at one time a PTA mom. I think it is feasible Marlene had her own contacts for Sierra's friends when she started looking for her that day.

Transcription from Kimi_SFC-

JW: Cops zeroed in on Sierra’s family first; and for good reason. Sierra’s dad, Steve LaMar, volunteered some disturbing information early on. Steve is a registered sex offender.

ML: We were still married; but at that time, I was focused on the kids, and being the PTA mom, and on my career. We were drifting before that, way before that. (ML off camera until now). I don’t want to go into details about that situation or the case because…the issue at hand is Sierra right now.

Thanks Stolat and Lash.

About after school activities, I got confused with the uncle's anecdote referencing February.

I most definitely think that Marlene would have some numbers for Sierra's friends in her possession. It seems, in regard to Freemont based friends, that those friendships were in Sierra's life for some time. Playdates and older kid activities that need transport coordination would definitely demand that parents have a couple of numbers anyway I would think.

I remember that NG where Marlene said no about Sierra having somewhere to go after school. I think it was the "bombshell" episode where, at least NG learns that, the Juicy bag was placed not thrown.


I *still* don't get where the bag figures in. Sure, there are ideas floating all over the place but nothing that really sticks solid. Nothing that satisfies and makes me go "ahhh". It just bugs me. It's elusive.

The bag is extremely important in this case.

For me, it's the obstruction to being able to feel confident about this particular suspect.

It defies physics.
It confuses scenarios in my mind.

It defies logic that a perp who is taking someone against their will from
The get go would place to conceal those items prior ir subsequent to committing the crime.
And leaving behind damning evidence.
I can't accept that assertion as a supposition.

Why weren't books scattered and bag disposed of with Sierra?
When did her clothes get removed and why?
Where is the make up and her shoes?

This fact alone makes me question the DNA evidence, which I learned yesterday, is anything but conclusive in terms of identifying Torres as the responsible individual.

The Placemnet of the items and the fact that they contained the neatly folded clothing Sierra wore that day does not conclusively point to an abduction and potential sexual homicide.

These bag to me is very much indicative of the circumstances surrounding what happened to Sierra.



One thing we know for sure - we know that we don't know for sure that she wore those clothes that day.

No one saw her with those clothes on. We can deduct by the associative theory -- A leads to B leads to C, etc. But we don't know. We *think* Torres was with Sierra that day based on DNA evidence. We *know* the clothes belong to Sierra based on DNA evidence (and Marlene). We *don't think* Torres was with Sierra on a different day. Torre's DNA is *most likely* the DNA on Sierra's clothes. Therefore we *think* those are the only clothes Sierra had in her possession that day - therefore we assume those were the clothes Sierra had on - the clothes she left with.

I'm somewhat ok with that assumption. But because that bag troubles me so, I'm not okay with ruling out the notion that there may be another set of clothes -- intended for that day.[i]

The clothes being worn by her and discovered clearly lead the imagination to consider added scenario of sexual assault(motive) and evidence of his associating with her.

Right now, I think the bag with clothes are important in influencing public opinion And maybe were important to the perp who may have intended to derail LE by making it seem equally plausible that she willingly intended to leave the house and not possibly go to school.

No players in this case need to commit to these clothes being worn by her really unless the powerful evidence of her murder is on these clothes, then they are important because the case against Torres is based upon his murdering Sierra.

The human mind will do it automatically until instructed directly by the judge that they can not.


I have definitely entertained the idea that the importance of the clothes placed there was to mislead others into thinking her departure was voluntary. Just not sure yet.

We have been told that skin fragments were "embedded" into the clothing. They used that word specificially. I would like to know the significance of that word used to describe the deposite of skin. Does "embedded" imply force? Does it imply that the mere brushing of skin is not sufficient enough to deposite the skin in the manner described - that it has to have more force applied - a struggle? How does skin get "embedded" into material? Is that a term common to forensic analysis?

I'm unaware of the skin fragments as fact or rumor.
Direct quote anyone?

Because I've what I've learned recently about DNA, I'm going to hold off on forming an opinion about the conclusiveness of this evidence until further investigation and debate by the defense.

I'm not willing to go on the DAs word on this.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:51 pm

Stolat wrote:It just dawned on me that there appears to be no 4 Quote Rule enforced on this site....

YEEEEHAAWWWWW


Like!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:58 pm

I'd love to know what time exactly that phone was turned off and what the microphone on it picked up, if anything, leading up to it being powered down.

I don't totally accept that there are NO forensics on that phone.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:58 pm

If AGT is involved in the 2009 attacks. The reports indicate the suspect approached the victims from behind.

Possibly the same with Sierra? Maybe he was already parked and hiding for her to walk down her street? If he body hugged her from behind to place her in the car, his DNA could be on Sierra's clothing? At some point, he removes her from the vehicle, more DNA on clothing? Many have mentioned Sierra may have been forced to undress and maybe she folded her own clothes to slow time. The suspect maybe then had her place the clothes in the bag. I have a suspicion the suspect planned to dispose of all the physical/material evidence that would identify Sierra. Stripping her of her clothing being one of them. I believe the suspect had every intention of destroying all the contents of her bag. I also could not understand the location of the bag and that it actually contained foreign DNA. In my opinion I believe he was interrupted and had to get rid of that bag fast. The above is all speculation.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:03 pm

"Skin fragments embedded"--- Could it be, if they were Sierra's DNA, it would be something as simple as they had been worn as opposed to being freshly laundered? Also, did Sierra have TWO of these shirts? (All my children liked to acquire two of their "favorite" shirts to make sure they always had one clean one on hand.)
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:03 pm

Lash wrote:If AGT is involved in the 2009 attacks. The reports indicate the suspect approached the victims from behind.

Possibly the same with Sierra? Maybe he was already parked and hiding for her walk down her street? If he body hugged her from behind to place her in the car, his DNA could be on Sierra's clothing. At some point, he removes her from the vehicle, more DNA on clothing. Many have mentioned Sierra may have been forced to undress and maybe she folded her own clothes to slow time. The suspect maybe then had her place the clothes in the bag. I have a suspicion the suspect planned to dispose of all the physical/material evidence that would identify Sierra. Stripping her of her clothing being one of them. I believe the suspect had every intention of destroying all the contents of her bag. I also could not understand the location of the bag and that it actually contained foreign DNA. In my opinion I believe he was interrupted and had to get rid of that bag fast. The above is all speculation.


How close to the road is that shed?
Do you recall?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:06 pm

Freckles wrote:"Skin fragments embedded"--- Could it be, if they were Sierra's DNA, it would be something as simple as they had been worn as opposed to being freshly laundered? Also, did Sierra have TWO of these shirts? (All my children liked to acquire two of their "favorite" shirts to make sure they always had one clean one on hand.)

A close association to his DNA was found on her clothing in her bag.

Her DNA was found in his car.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:10 pm

Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
I have definitely entertained the idea that the importance of the clothes placed there was to mislead others into thinking her departure was voluntary. Just not sure yet.

We have been told that skin fragments were "embedded" into the clothing. They used that word specificially. I would like to know the significance of that word used to describe the deposite of skin. Does "embedded" imply force? Does it imply that the mere brushing of skin is not sufficient enough to deposite the skin in the manner described - that it has to have more force applied - a struggle? How does skin get "embedded" into material? Is that a term common to forensic analysis?

I'm unaware of the skin fragments as fact or rumor.
Direct quote anyone?

Because I've what I've learned recently about DNA, I'm going to hold off on forming an opinion about the conclusiveness of this evidence until further investigation and debate by the defense.

I'm not willing to go on the DAs word on this.

BBM
Here - at marker 2:13

-- they say "skin fragments that were somehow embedded in Sierra Lamar's clothing, clothing found in her juicy bag...."

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/7314578-team-coverage-suspect-details-emerge-in-lamar-disappearance/

I posted this here two weeks ago -- here's the original:

http://www.realitychatter.com/t3802p420-sierra-lamar-missing-3-16-12#140963
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:15 pm

Freckles wrote:"Skin fragments embedded"--- Could it be, if they were Sierra's DNA, it would be something as simple as they had been worn as opposed to being freshly laundered? Also, did Sierra have TWO of these shirts? (All my children liked to acquire two of their "favorite" shirts to make sure they always had one clean one on hand.)

Freckles, what we are discussing is the quote that sources issued saying Torres's DNA (in the form of skin fragments) was found "embedded" on Sierra's clothing in her bag. We know Sierra's DNA would likely be on her clothes -- whether she wore them or even picked them up and carried them - hers would be there. It's his we're discussing.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Justice4all on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:16 pm

Stolat wrote:It just dawned on me that there appears to be no 4 Quote Rule enforced on this site....

YEEEEHAAWWWWW

It's kind of hard for me to follow a six layer quote, but if you guys can follow it, have at it. Personally if it is more than two, I scroll past it and just read the new comment.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:18 pm

@ Stolat.

Thanks.
I cant view it on my phone but will
Soon.

Skin fragments.

Where did they get that info from?
Was that officially released do you know?

Skin fragments does infer close contact.

However it doesn't indicate her murder.
And there may be other Mexican guys with a close DNA association to that sample.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:21 pm

Lash wrote:If AGT is involved in the 2009 attacks. The reports indicate the suspect approached the victims from behind.

Possibly the same with Sierra? Maybe he was already parked and hiding for her to walk down her street? If he body hugged her from behind to place her in the car, his DNA could be on Sierra's clothing? At some point, he removes her from the vehicle, more DNA on clothing? Many have mentioned Sierra may have been forced to undress and maybe she folded her own clothes to slow time. The suspect maybe then had her place the clothes in the bag. I have a suspicion the suspect planned to dispose of all the physical/material evidence that would identify Sierra. Stripping her of her clothing being one of them. I believe the suspect had every intention of destroying all the contents of her bag. I also could not understand the location of the bag and that it actually contained foreign DNA. In my opinion I believe he was interrupted and had to get rid of that bag fast. The above is all speculation.


This is all very good postulation Lash. It does make me think.

I am one who theorized that Sierra may have been forced to fold her own clothes - as a way to stall and buy a few more minutes of her life. but now your words make me think deeper -- coupled with issues Tamta has raised for a long time (and others as well). The books.... the makeup.... the shoes...

what if...

what if the juicy bag was unknown to him? what if Sierra left that bag intentionally as a breadcrumb, straight from Hansel & Gretel. What if those weren't the only clothes she had on. What if she somehow distracted him with the books, the makeup, the shoes, other clothing -- I don't know.... and then "placed" the bag there where perhaps he did not know she did that? What if *she* threw the phone -- knowing her mom knew she'd never go willingly without it....

I doubt it - but I entertain it to see where it takes me because the clues themselve just don't make sense.

I also wonder if his DNA fragments are on the *back* of her clothing, not just the front -- to support as you suggest, that she was attacked from behind.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:25 pm

Justice4all wrote:
Stolat wrote:It just dawned on me that there appears to be no 4 Quote Rule enforced on this site....

YEEEEHAAWWWWW

It's kind of hard for me to follow a six layer quote, but if you guys can follow it, have at it. Personally if it is more than two, I scroll past it and just read the new comment.

True - and if it's big, I'll definitely try to clip. But sometimes if they are small one-liners but all fairly integral to keep the context or point collated - then it's pretty handy to do so. I certainly don't want to contaminate the thread with long pages. don't worry ....i won't go ape-wild rocker
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:31 pm

Tamta wrote:@ Stolat.

Thanks.
I cant view it on my phone but will
Soon.

Skin fragments.

Where did they get that info from?
Was that officially released do you know?

Skin fragments does infer close contact.

However it doesn't indicate her murder.
And there may be other Mexican guys with a close DNA association to that sample.

I'll have to re-watch the vid, been a while. The vid tagline says they are quoting investigators who "are convinced that 21-year-old Antolin Garcia-Torres, who was arrested Monday evening,
abducted and killed Sierra LaMar, who disappeared from Morgan Hill two months ago."

I'm not sure, without watching, what official docs (or presser) provided them that source info.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:02 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:@ Stolat.

Thanks.
I cant view it on my phone but will
Soon.

Skin fragments.

Where did they get that info from?
Was that officially released do you know?

Skin fragments does infer close contact.

However it doesn't indicate her murder.
And there may be other Mexican guys with a close DNA association to that sample.

I'll have to re-watch the vid, been a while. The vid tagline says they are quoting investigators who "are convinced that 21-year-old Antolin Garcia-Torres, who was arrested Monday evening,
abducted and killed Sierra LaMar, who disappeared from Morgan Hill two months ago."

I'm not sure, without watching, what official docs (or presser) provided them that source info.

I can watch it in a bit now.

People leak things, maybe that was it.
I do remember hearing that although not reading it much
so I will look for it again also.

@ Lash and you,

I think that if Sierra did not go willingly with someone, then surprising her from behind and a struggle ensuing makes total sense either at the end of her drive or down the road a bit more.

IT seems like skin fragments would be a fairly natural consequence for a struggle.
In my mind, I would think that at least the books would have been left askew and at least her bag taken with her to another location, in order to assault and at least render her unresponsive or kill her, and then dispose of her.

The bag, the DNA in the bag, with the clothing minus the said cosmetics, and the placement of the bag, just stops my mind from proceeding with the complete stranger abduction theory.

I would have to orient more towards the responsibility for her disappearance laying with someone whom she knew or was relatively familiar, and that she placed her items herself and the perp put the clothes in themselves, or the perp intentionally placed all of her things in that location for a specific reason, for example to mislead and buy more time through whitewash attempt.

Just because Marlene said that he does not look like someone that Sierra would 'know' does not mean that much to me. Our threads clearly show enough behavioral evidence to infer that Marlene was less than on top of every last detail of Sierra's life.
(The way her Tumblr looked for one!!)

I am so close to driving up to MH and walking through this myself!!!

I am so curious if LE attempted a re-enactment.
I think the bag evidence totally demands it.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Stolat wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Stolat wrote:
I have definitely entertained the idea that the importance of the clothes placed there was to mislead others into thinking her departure was voluntary. Just not sure yet.

We have been told that skin fragments were "embedded" into the clothing. They used that word specificially. I would like to know the significance of that word used to describe the deposite of skin. Does "embedded" imply force? Does it imply that the mere brushing of skin is not sufficient enough to deposite the skin in the manner described - that it has to have more force applied - a struggle? How does skin get "embedded" into material? Is that a term common to forensic analysis?

I'm unaware of the skin fragments as fact or rumor.
Direct quote anyone?

Because I've what I've learned recently about DNA, I'm going to hold off on forming an opinion about the conclusiveness of this evidence until further investigation and debate by the defense.

I'm not willing to go on the DAs word on this.

BBM
Here - at marker 2:13

-- they say "skin fragments that were somehow embedded in Sierra Lamar's clothing, clothing found in her juicy bag...."

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/7314578-team-coverage-suspect-details-emerge-in-lamar-disappearance/

I posted this here two weeks ago -- here's the original:

http://www.realitychatter.com/t3802p420-sierra-lamar-missing-3-16-12#140963

OK

The revelation about the skin fragments as reported by Ramirez here is attributed by him to the SO and we see the speaking of the Sheriff at a PC so the inference is that she announced this detail there, I suppose.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:17 pm

https://www.facebook.com/Find.Sierra.LaMar

"Hope & Faith Rally" Friday June 1st (tonight) in Fremont @ Washington High @ 7pm.

The students would like to make a giant heart out of tea candles

They want the heart to be visible to the news chopper that will be flying over the event.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Tamta - We also speculated at one time there may have been more than one purse. The larger juicy used as a book bag and maybe a smaller one used more as a purse for things like makeup.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:06 am

Criminologist: Sierra LaMar Murder Suspect Could Walk Free

Snipped
BBM

[i]Garcia-Torres is believed to be responsible for the kidnapping and presumed murder of Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar, but is only being charged with one count of murder. Kidnapping has been added to the charge as a "special circumstance"—a decision that Clark says could backfire on the prosecution and send the suspect home free.

The reason Garcia-Torres could escape jail time is simply because the jury doesn’t have a fall-back position. If the jury doesn’t find Garcia-Torres guilty on the one count of murder, then its members don’t “get to the kidnapping” part, Clark said.

“Because there’s only one count, which is murder, they’ve alleged the kidnapping as a special circumstance, but it’s not an independent count at this point, so if they don’t believe he killed her but they believe he kidnapped her, then he would be found not guilty [of murder] and I don’t believe they can retry him again,” Clark said.


In order for Garcia Torres to remain behind bars despite the possibility of a jury reaching a non-guilty verdict, the prosecution would have to file a kidnapping charge, which is something they may not do because “they’ve gone all-in with murder in this case,” Clark said.

Now they’ve made a strategy decision on that, and I think the reason they did that is they believe they have a strong case for murder and they don’t want the fallback of only kidnapping,” he said.




http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/criminologist-sierra-lamar-murder-suspect-could-walk-free-faf6c5f1
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:24 am

Clark also said the discovery of Sierra’s body could help the defense because it could serve as an alibi if the teen’s body is found in a location that the suspect has never been to, which authorities can verify by reviewing the GPS device that was secretly placed on Garcia-Torres’ car when authorities began 24-hour surveillance of him on March 28.
http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/criminologist-sierra-lamar-murder-suspect-could-walk-free-faf6c5f1
__________________________________________________

how does that make sense? he obviously disposed of her body BEFORE the GPS was put on or we would know where she was...he had 12 days. and it was no "secret" the family has said they knew about the GPS.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:37 am

Honeysage wrote:Clark also said the discovery of Sierra’s body could help the defense because it could serve as an alibi if the teen’s body is found in a location that the suspect has never been to, which authorities can verify by reviewing the GPS device that was secretly placed on Garcia-Torres’ car when authorities began 24-hour surveillance of him on March 28.
http://cupertino.patch.com/articles/criminologist-sierra-lamar-murder-suspect-could-walk-free-faf6c5f1
__________________________________________________

how does that make sense? he obviously disposed of her body BEFORE the GPS was put on or we would know where she was...he had 12 days. and it was no "secret" the family has said they knew about the GPS.

It is not a solid way to connect or disconnect the dots.

But the theory is that he most likely would have gone back to check the scene to ensure perhaps everything was concealed still.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:43 am

Lash wrote:Tamta - We also speculated at one time there may have been more than one purse. The larger juicy used as a book bag and maybe a smaller one used more as a purse for things like makeup.

yes!

More physical evidence please!!!! crystal ball
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

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