Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:40 am

UPDATE: DA not investigating Gilroy incident some tied to Sierra case
Updated: 9:06 am, Tue Jun 12, 2012

The Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office is not investigating a possible link between a sketch of a man who tried to seduce a 10-year-old Gilroy girl in July 2011 and Sierra LaMar’s alleged kidnapper, but Gilroy Police already have. 

According to GPD, an incident involving a Hispanic male who allegedly attempted to lure the girl into his car July 26, 2011 has drawn recent attention from the community, as some have said the drawing of the suspect released by police looks similar to Antolin Garcia Torres, the murder suspect tied to Sierra’s disappearance. 

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/update-da-not-investigating-gilroy-incident-some-tied-to-sierra/article_86ffd0fc-b1a8-11e1-b326-0019bb30f31a.html#user-comment-area
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:26 pm

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20848470/reward-sierra-lamar-case-increases-35-000
Reward in Sierra LaMar case increases to $35,000 (June 13, 2012)

"Someone might know something now," Steve LaMar said this morning. "There might be other individuals involved."
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by kimi_SFC on Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:00 pm

EDITED FOR CORRECT [IMG] CODE

Updated reward flyer from the official Find Sierra LaMar Facebook page


(Not sure what happened the first time around)


Last edited by kimi_SFC on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Corrected IMG code)
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:03 pm

kimi_SFC wrote:Updated reward flyer from the official Find Sierra LaMar Facebook page

Then someone has not updated the Facebook page yet -- this flier pictured has been discontinued/replaced.

LaMar held up a flier that now describes Sierra as "abducted," replacing those that had said, "Endangered - missing."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/13/BA1V1P1A06.DTL#ixzz1xhnzKJt2
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by kimi_SFC on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:11 pm

Stolat,

I edited my original post with a new IMG code. sorry about that!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Ann - Tx on Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:46 pm


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/06/13/BA1V1P1A06.DTL
San Franciso Chronicle San Francisco, CA 6/13/12

Sierra LaMar reward increased to $35,000



Beck Diefenbach / Special to The Chronicle

Sierra LaMar's mother, Marlene LaMar (L), sister
Danielle (C) and father Steve (R) stand together
during a news conference regarding the arrest of
Antolin Garcia-Torres at the Santa Clara County
Sheriff's Office on Tuesday May 22, 2012 in
San Jose, Calif.





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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:11 am

Typo Positive wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://newark.patch.com/articles/gilroy-child-annoyance-cases-raising-possible-link-to-lamar-murder#photo-10207258
Gilroy Child 'Annoyance' Cases Raising Possible Link to LaMar Murder

A suspect who police say attempted to lure four children into his vehicle on July 26 and August 3 has been identified. But Gilroy police won't say whether the suspect is Antolin Garcia-Torres, accused in the Sierra LaMar murder-kidnapping.


That's the other sketch that I thought was being used to link to the woman in one of the Safeway incidents!
So now it's trotted out again to link to some other cases!

Here's where I call foul on the sketch. There are obvious glare highlights drawn in on the sketch.
Why?
It's like the sketch was drawn from a photograph and not from a
witness statement. They would not have told him where to place glare on his face!



I agree that it almost seems like it was sketched from the current pic underneath other than the goatee changing even has the little gap in the front teeth.. very strange!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:28 pm

Typo Positive wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://newark.patch.com/articles/gilroy-child-annoyance-cases-raising-possible-link-to-lamar-murder#photo-10207258
Gilroy Child 'Annoyance' Cases Raising Possible Link to LaMar Murder

A suspect who police say attempted to lure four children into his vehicle on July 26 and August 3 has been identified. But Gilroy police won't say whether the suspect is Antolin Garcia-Torres, accused in the Sierra LaMar murder-kidnapping.


That's the other sketch that I thought was being used to link to the woman in one of the Safeway incidents!
So now it's trotted out again to link to some other cases!

Here's where I call foul on the sketch. There are obvious glare highlights drawn in on the sketch.
Why?
It's like the sketch was drawn from a photograph and not from a
witness statement. They would not have told him where to place glare on his face!


I have the exact opposite opinion - instead of thinking it is a sketch of a photograph, I think it is a photograph of a sketch. Or a photocopy of a sketch

And that is where the glare is coming from.

And that is totally feasible and would not be hinky - especially is the photographer did not have physical acces to the sketch (or its digital original) or if the sketch was scanned in or faxed over to someone or placed on a photocopier - especially one set to B&W settings only.

Where the glare starts to fade in the forehead, you can see "dots" darker dots, that represent where the shading becomes darker. Same goes on the side of the face, the left side - it *almost* looks like freckles, but since it only goes down one side, this is clearly where the shading on the face darkens. Also around the nose an inner eye area - more dots in darker areas. Same evidence of dots on the head - where I'm pretty sure he has no freckles. I've addressed the issues of photo editing before. Here's my analysis on this photo. If someone were to have drawn this sketch in this manner, with all these "dots" - that is a very tedious and skilled art form called "Pointallism" made famous by Georges Serrat. I highly doubt an artist creating a criminal sketch would go to such lengths. My mom is an art major/teacher and taught me this form and I once won first place in a city art contest using pointellism depiction of a tennis shoe. Granted - it was just a youth's contest, so it's not an impressive prize. But still, it took me 3 days to put together. Pointellism is not a fast build.

However -- this effect of glare we see here is very often produced from either scanning a photo or simply just laying it on a Black & White document photocopier. Photocopiers that are not designed for high resolution full color settings will very often reproduce this precise kind of glare and "pixelation" we see here - that almost resembles pointellism.

I think we're reading too much into this one -- I think this is simply a photocopy of the sketch transformed into digital form so it could be emailed and shared digitally.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:51 pm

http://100.42.52.148/~klaaskid/blog/?p=314
Sierra LaMar: Anatomy of a Search Day 73

I am very concerned that we haven’t found Sierra. This has to be one of history’s largest sustained searches for a missing person. 7,952 search volunteers have been dispatched on 750 search assignments that have blanketed a 20 mile radius around Sierra’s home and we haven’t found anything relevant to her disappearance.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:01 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://100.42.52.148/~klaaskid/blog/?p=314
Sierra LaMar: Anatomy of a Search Day 73

I am very concerned that we haven’t found Sierra. This has to be one of history’s largest sustained searches for a missing person. 7,952 search volunteers have been dispatched on 750 search assignments that have blanketed a 20 mile radius around Sierra’s home and we haven’t found anything relevant to her disappearance.

To me, this speaks to the level of organization, and thus necessity of that, which is behind the disappearance of Sierra.

Sierra has been well hidden, as well as much of the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

To me, this is a very notable aspect of her case and perhaps one of the things that makes it so compelling to the public.

Even with a 'suspect', I do not think that anyone is able to truly stop asking themselves "What really happened?".
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:08 pm

I so want to disagree but---- I can't.
When I look at the subject's right ear and the formation of the folds of the ear, well, it DOES appear to be a copy or sketch of the photo. No one would be able to accurately sketch the ear folds that well and ear folds are specific to the person.

Thanks for setting me straight!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:13 pm

Freckles wrote:I so want to disagree but---- I can't.
When I look at the subject's right ear and the formation of the folds of the ear, well, it DOES appear to be a copy or sketch of the photo. No one would be able to accurately sketch the ear folds that well and ear folds are specific to the person.

Thanks for setting me straight!

From a behavioral stand point alone, I am not even considering Torres' involvement in these incidents.

I do think you may have a point about the ears, even though I have not spent barely a minute on this representation.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:17 pm

Tamta wrote:
Freckles wrote:I so want to disagree but---- I can't.
When I look at the subject's right ear and the formation of the folds of the ear, well, it DOES appear to be a copy or sketch of the photo. No one would be able to accurately sketch the ear folds that well and ear folds are specific to the person.

Thanks for setting me straight!

From a behavioral stand point alone, I am not even considering Torres' involvement in these incidents.

I do think you may have a point about the ears, even though I have not spent barely a minute on this representation.
Even the position of the ears is accurate something most of us would have trouble with.
-Bottom of the ear: Does it line up with the end of the nose, upper lip, bottom lip?
-Top of ear: Does it line up with the bottom of the eye, mid eye, top of eye?

Does the ear set in the middle of the side of the head, toward the back or toward the front?

Tilt of ear: Does the ear huge the head, stand away or fly off the head (ear tuggers)?

Is the lobe attached or free?

Is the lobe smoothly shaped or does it have curves?

The actual interior design of the folds should be examined.

Now do this for BOTH ears!!! Very Happy
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:42 pm

Freckles wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Freckles wrote:I so want to disagree but---- I can't.
When I look at the subject's right ear and the formation of the folds of the ear, well, it DOES appear to be a copy or sketch of the photo. No one would be able to accurately sketch the ear folds that well and ear folds are specific to the person.

Thanks for setting me straight!

From a behavioral stand point alone, I am not even considering Torres' involvement in these incidents.

I do think you may have a point about the ears, even though I have not spent barely a minute on this representation.
Even the position of the ears is accurate something most of us would have trouble with.
-Bottom of the ear: Does it line up with the end of the nose, upper lip, bottom lip?
-Top of ear: Does it line up with the bottom of the eye, mid eye, top of eye?

Does the ear set in the middle of the side of the head, toward the back or toward the front?

Tilt of ear: Does the ear huge the head, stand away or fly off the head (ear tuggers)?

Is the lobe attached or free?

Is the lobe smoothly shaped or does it have curves?

The actual interior design of the folds should be examined.

Now do this for BOTH ears!!! Very Happy

Isn't that funny - I was just going to critique that the ears are way off from the real photo - far too low on the head compared to the photo. And the giveaway for me is the lips. It's nearly impossible to miss those full lips and yet in the sketch they're quite thin. Anyhoo -- like Tamta said, likely neither here nor there. eyes of different beholders and all good.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:32 pm

This is a sketch that appeared in an article in the Gilroy Dispatch dated August 8th, 2011.

Two suspects sought in separate alleged kidnapping attempts

http://www.gilroydispatch.com/news/crime_fire_courts/two-suspects-sought-in-separate-alleged-kidnapping-attempts/article_d22ecc1d-b238-50fc-8ccb-758bef4ae37e.html

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:42 pm

^Compare this to the one above ^
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:48 pm

I am just not buying this.
In an attempted kidnapping and the victim remembers ALL these details? I mean, how fast is an attempted kidnapping for the victim to set aside her fear, her attempts at protection, her attempts to get away AND then recall ALL these minute details? It just doesn't work for me. I wanted it too but it just doesn't.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:50 pm

Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://100.42.52.148/~klaaskid/blog/?p=314
Sierra LaMar: Anatomy of a Search Day 73

I am very concerned that we haven’t found Sierra. This has to be one of history’s largest sustained searches for a missing person. 7,952 search volunteers have been dispatched on 750 search assignments that have blanketed a 20 mile radius around Sierra’s home and we haven’t found anything relevant to her disappearance.

To me, this speaks to the level of organization, and thus necessity of that, which is behind the disappearance of Sierra.

Sierra has been well hidden, as well as much of the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

To me, this is a very notable aspect of her case and perhaps one of the things that makes it so compelling to the public.

Even with a 'suspect', I do not think that anyone is able to truly stop asking themselves "What really happened?".
BBM
I wonder if the wells have been checked?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:53 pm

Freckles wrote:
Tamta wrote:
Honeysage wrote:http://100.42.52.148/~klaaskid/blog/?p=314
Sierra LaMar: Anatomy of a Search Day 73

I am very concerned that we haven’t found Sierra. This has to be one of history’s largest sustained searches for a missing person. 7,952 search volunteers have been dispatched on 750 search assignments that have blanketed a 20 mile radius around Sierra’s home and we haven’t found anything relevant to her disappearance.

To me, this speaks to the level of organization, and thus necessity of that, which is behind the disappearance of Sierra.

Sierra has been well hidden, as well as much of the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

To me, this is a very notable aspect of her case and perhaps one of the things that makes it so compelling to the public.

Even with a 'suspect', I do not think that anyone is able to truly stop asking themselves "What really happened?".
BBM
I wonder if the wells have been checked?

???
It is my speculation that Sierra is buried.
It is really a feat disposing of remains in water, and making sure that they stay concealed.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:42 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://100.42.52.148/~klaaskid/blog/?p=314
Sierra LaMar: Anatomy of a Search Day 73

I am very concerned that we haven’t found Sierra. This has to be one of history’s largest sustained searches for a missing person. 7,952 search volunteers have been dispatched on 750 search assignments that have blanketed a 20 mile radius around Sierra’s home and we haven’t found anything relevant to her disappearance.

Snipped from above - The perp and his family have amply demonstrated that they are not criminal masterminds. His claim that he never met Sierra is dispelled by the fact that police have his DNA on her clothing and evidence that she was in his car. His mother believes that he is innocent, but admits that she is not his shadow. To think that he hid her so successfully and kept that information to himself is patently absurd. I think that he has confided his secret: but to whom?

Does anyone else think it is absurd that this potential suspect could keep all this info to himself? I personally don't see why it is absurd to think he hasn't confided in a single soul. Maybe someone knows of discrepancies in his whereabouts or some type of damning evidence, but sharing her location is definitely something I think he could keep to himself. -In my opinion.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:35 pm

Freckles wrote:I am just not buying this.
In an attempted kidnapping and the victim remembers ALL these details? I mean, how fast is an attempted kidnapping for the victim to set aside her fear, her attempts at protection, her attempts to get away AND then recall ALL these minute details? It just doesn't work for me. I wanted it too but it just doesn't.

I don't know Freckles.... but at age 5 I was attempted kidnapped and to this very day the image of that guy is burned in my brain - I could draw a picture of him today. I understand not everyone has good memories for details -- that has not been an issue for me for certain things, especially when it was traumatic. I still remember it was a long green car from the 70's (which my grandmother confirms was an old leSabre since she saw the car). The guy looked like Davy Jones of the Monkees -- not a bad looking kid - but uber creepola. Early 20's but he had a young face. I knew he was older because of how confident he was and how syrup-y sweet he was. He pulled over to the side of the road as I played outside my grandmother's house and he had 2 brown paper sacks of groceries in the long singular front seat bench with him. He had the passenger window open and spoke to me. He had one of those striped shirts like they wore on That 70's show and he had his brown hair longer and swept to the side with soft brown eyes. He told me he knew my grandmother and he offered me candy since he just came from the store, he leaned over and opened the passenger door wide, which was facing me, and he told me I could get chocolate from the 2nd bag and that he couldn't reach it but I could help myself. I hesitated and told him I couldn't talk to strangers and he said it was ok - that he was friends with my grandmother and saw her all the time. I took a step forward and hesitated and started to put my hand out a bit but wasn't quite sure. At that moment he reached his arm over and had his hand extended out and I realized he lied about not being able to reach (of course he could because he also opened the door). He was going to grab my arm. I jumped back startled and my grandmother came running out of the house yelling my name. He sped off like a bat out of hell screetching tires and even drove wtih the door still open until it slammed shut when he went around the corner. My grandmother called the cops but they couldn't find the guy. Things were different back then and not as easy to track people down in a big city. It didn't really hit me at first but since my grandmother was crying all day I knew something about it must have been a big deal. As I got older and started to read about child abductions I realized I almost became a piece of trash that day - a statistic. It scares me now more than it scared me then. That image of that guy will never die in my head. And it only happened in what - 30 or 60 seconds? But it played out like slow motion as if each frame in a film stopped in time.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:27 am

Stolat- I'm glad you did not become a victim that day and has the smarts to recognize his arm was working just fine. You were a perceptive 5 year old!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:06 pm

Lash wrote:Stolat- I'm glad you did not become a victim that day and has the smarts to recognize his arm was working just fine. You were a perceptive 5 year old!

dunno Lash - it really was my grandmother bolting out the door that changed the course of events - I really don't know what would have happened had she not startled him, but I remember being a deer in the headlights thinking "should I really be alarmed by this? why do i feel uneasy about this" and yet I didn't run. I am very disappointed that i just stood there and didn't listen to my gut feel. The crazy thing is that my parents raised me to be so polite that I was *more* concerned about offending this potential "family friend" who was being so nice to me. And I think that happens a lot with kids. And drawing upon that past experience, I am afforded a small glimpse into how it is these young kids get lured and grabbed. All it takes is a moment of hesitation --"deer in the headlights"-- and they can get grabbed. I had a grandmother and God's Grace of good timing - but one half second later and she could have missed me entirely and I'd be gone forever.

So I think we need to do more to teach our kids to err on the side of being "rude" rather than being polite with strangers. My aunt teaches a program in school to kids called "Circle of Safety" and it very explicitly and visually outlines who our kids should consider to be in each level of trusted individuals, eminating outward from their inner family -- and to what degree they should consider certain behaviors to be red flags at each level of the circles. It's a wonderful program. It tells you how you to what differing degrees you should trust teachers, coaches, daycare workers, babysitters, religious figures, neighbors, extended family members, friends, postal workers, police officers or people of service, repair men, etc. It teaches children that there is a *different* level of interraction or "trust" with each type of individual in the different circles -- instead of the "blanket" approach traditionally taken where children are taught to be respectful and polite (and often trusting) of ALL adults or people in authority. It teaches kids to be more critical of who they share with or even speak to or even get in close proximity with. For example - -it teaches kids that if a adult approaches a child in a grocery and asks them their name, they should NOT answer them but rather, look immediately to their parent and let the parent decide if they should answer or not -- if the parent is not there, the child should NOT respond - be firm about not responding, even if they come off as rude, and IMMEDIATELY seek the company of their parent or trusted caregiver. That is far different than how I was raised and unfortunately such skills are required in today's world.

Ugh, so much more that our children face today. Always having to be one step ahead of the bad guy - because they are out there.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Stolat on Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:22 pm

Hey! check this out....



This is O/T - but not really. It made me think of Sierra's case. It's a story taken from the Morgan Harrington case. This appears to be a new way to compile composite sketches using modern day technology and computer graphics. So very cool!! Evidently they take stock photographs of existing people's features and categorize them into a huge database of options of mix & match facial features and morph face shapes to come up to a close approximation of the suspect. That is very feasible considering a lot of people's features can often times fall into a "bucket" of a finite grouping of options. With the basic elements in place they can widen or narrow features like noses, lips, eyes - all digitally, and still retain the photographic quality. So this is a mixture of a multitude of photographs superimposed and morphed. Very cool.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/13/metal-band-metallica-joins-hunt-for-killer/?hpt=ju_t4
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Soprano1 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:34 am

Stolat wrote:
Lash wrote:Stolat- I'm glad you did not become a victim that day and has the smarts to recognize his arm was working just fine. You were a perceptive 5 year old!

dunno Lash - it really was my grandmother bolting out the door that changed the course of events - I really don't know what would have happened had she not startled him, but I remember being a deer in the headlights thinking "should I really be alarmed by this? why do i feel uneasy about this" and yet I didn't run. I am very disappointed that i just stood there and didn't listen to my gut feel. The crazy thing is that my parents raised me to be so polite that I was *more* concerned about offending this potential "family friend" who was being so nice to me. And I think that happens a lot with kids. And drawing upon that past experience, I am afforded a small glimpse into how it is these young kids get lured and grabbed. All it takes is a moment of hesitation --"deer in the headlights"-- and they can get grabbed. I had a grandmother and God's Grace of good timing - but one half second later and she could have missed me entirely and I'd be gone forever.

So I think we need to do more to teach our kids to err on the side of being "rude" rather than being polite with strangers. My aunt teaches a program in school to kids called "Circle of Safety" and it very explicitly and visually outlines who our kids should consider to be in each level of trusted individuals, eminating outward from their inner family -- and to what degree they should consider certain behaviors to be red flags at each level of the circles. It's a wonderful program. It tells you how you to what differing degrees you should trust teachers, coaches, daycare workers, babysitters, religious figures, neighbors, extended family members, friends, postal workers, police officers or people of service, repair men, etc. It teaches children that there is a *different* level of interraction or "trust" with each type of individual in the different circles -- instead of the "blanket" approach traditionally taken where children are taught to be respectful and polite (and often trusting) of ALL adults or people in authority. It teaches kids to be more critical of who they share with or even speak to or even get in close proximity with. For example - -it teaches kids that if a adult approaches a child in a grocery and asks them their name, they should NOT answer them but rather, look immediately to their parent and let the parent decide if they should answer or not -- if the parent is not there, the child should NOT respond - be firm about not responding, even if they come off as rude, and IMMEDIATELY seek the company of their parent or trusted caregiver. That is far different than how I was raised and unfortunately such skills are required in today's world.

Ugh, so much more that our children face today. Always having to be one step ahead of the bad guy - because they are out there.

I wonder if your aunt's program is available in my area. I would love for my daughters to be involved in such training. I teach them exactly those things at home, but they would certainly benefit from a class-setting and more reiteration of what Mom says. Sometimes, children hear things differently when someone besides Mom says it.

As a mother of two children, reading your experience significantly spiked my blood pressure. I wanted to be "in" your account, standing in the yard, glaring down the strange man as he drove by but didn't stop because someone was in the yard with you. I recognized this feeling because it's why I can't let my youngest go outside without her father or me. Now that we have a new house and a privacy fence, she finally has the freedom to run around without us hovering, but still watching from the window or porch. The very thought that someone could dare to look at MY child and think they have some right to even LOOK at her, much less talk to her or touch her, makes my blood boil. Bless your grandmother's heart - she must have sat back that day, after your incident, with jelly-knees and stomach in knots at what could have transpired. What a blessing for you that she was there and observant, unlike so many parents today, who leave for work or turn their backs before they can confirm that their children have been safely transferred to another adult's care.

When I was a child, my brother and I left the house after Matlock went off in the mornings in the summer, and we ran all over our little community. No cell, no nothing...not even sunscreen on most days, and frequently, without shoes on! We came home in time for Mama to take us to the pool (which we were NEVER allowed to do alone), and then when we got home, we took off again until we saw Daddy's truck coming down the long gravel road (which we learned to look for when the sun hit a certain spot in the sky). We went to friends' houses, to the gas station store, to the neighboring mobile home community (which, thankfully, was always well-kept and the only negative about it was that it attracted tornadoes), and explored all through the woods and cotton fields for miles. (Why yes, I DID grow up in Alabama!)

Children cannot do these things anymore, sadly. I don't know exactly WHAT is different - you'd think it would be actually safer, what with all the cell phones and gadgets and insta-communication these days. Or, maybe our previous lack of instant information simply kept us all happily naive and somewhat oblivious to the relatively few instances of stranger abduction. Maybe it's more that the news reporter doesn't walk down Main Street, Anytown, USA, and show "breaking news" on the latest stick-ball game in the cul-de-sac, or show happy children running through sprinklers, because these are the norm, and thus, not "stories."

I don't know...it's just that reading about your close call has me thinking, over-thinking, and re-thinking these things, because my worst nightmare in the entire world is to be standing in Steve LaMar or Desiree Young's shoes.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:43 am

Stolat wrote:
Freckles wrote:I am just not buying this.
In an attempted kidnapping and the victim remembers ALL these details? I mean, how fast is an attempted kidnapping for the victim to set aside her fear, her attempts at protection, her attempts to get away AND then recall ALL these minute details? It just doesn't work for me. I wanted it too but it just doesn't.

I don't know Freckles.... but at age 5 I was attempted kidnapped and to this very day the image of that guy is burned in my brain - I could draw a picture of him today. I understand not everyone has good memories for details -- that has not been an issue for me for certain things, especially when it was traumatic. I still remember it was a long green car from the 70's (which my grandmother confirms was an old leSabre since she saw the car). The guy looked like Davy Jones of the Monkees -- not a bad looking kid - but uber creepola. Early 20's but he had a young face. I knew he was older because of how confident he was and how syrup-y sweet he was. He pulled over to the side of the road as I played outside my grandmother's house and he had 2 brown paper sacks of groceries in the long singular front seat bench with him. He had the passenger window open and spoke to me. He had one of those striped shirts like they wore on That 70's show and he had his brown hair longer and swept to the side with soft brown eyes. He told me he knew my grandmother and he offered me candy since he just came from the store, he leaned over and opened the passenger door wide, which was facing me, and he told me I could get chocolate from the 2nd bag and that he couldn't reach it but I could help myself. I hesitated and told him I couldn't talk to strangers and he said it was ok - that he was friends with my grandmother and saw her all the time. I took a step forward and hesitated and started to put my hand out a bit but wasn't quite sure. At that moment he reached his arm over and had his hand extended out and I realized he lied about not being able to reach (of course he could because he also opened the door). He was going to grab my arm. I jumped back startled and my grandmother came running out of the house yelling my name. He sped off like a bat out of hell screetching tires and even drove wtih the door still open until it slammed shut when he went around the corner. My grandmother called the cops but they couldn't find the guy. Things were different back then and not as easy to track people down in a big city. It didn't really hit me at first but since my grandmother was crying all day I knew something about it must have been a big deal. As I got older and started to read about child abductions I realized I almost became a piece of trash that day - a statistic. It scares me now more than it scared me then. That image of that guy will never die in my head. And it only happened in what - 30 or 60 seconds? But it played out like slow motion as if each frame in a film stopped in time.
Years ago, pn my way to work from a bus top, a man called me over to his car. Like a dumb fool, I went. Well, he was busy pleasuring himself. I scolded him, walked away, and looked back to get the plate info. At work, I called it into PD. Officers later came to my apartment and took more details while showing me pictures. Nothing there. About a week later, detectives arrived and opened a file folder. There was an almost perfect sketch of the man's face. I was stunned and told them the hair was about an inch longer. They informed me they would not need me to testify; the had run the plate and discovered the car had been loaned to this man. However, by the time the car was located, the man had raped a coed and the sketch was compiled upon her description. They were able to link the info I had given and the plate. The license number I will never forget: KDX 899-- white Ford, 1974. Yes I recall but I was not the one under stress and I was an adult.
Sharp children and well trained would recall more than a child caught unawares, IMO.

I am glad you got away. That must have been very scary.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:51 am

It has now been 3 months today since Sierra disappeared.
Where are you Sierra?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Julie on Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:05 pm

Lash wrote:It has now been 3 months today since Sierra disappeared.
Where are you Sierra?

That's weird. It was 4 years ago today that Caylee was last seen, leaving the house with Casey, per George, OR drowned in the family swimming pool, per Bozo.

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:36 am

Reward in Sierra LaMar case increases to $35,000


Cardoza said. "The case is still open. We still have to find her."


http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_20848468/reward-sierra-lamar-case-increases-35-000?refresh=no
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:38 am



The LaMar family announced June 8 that requirements for the reward have changed. The reward was initially offered to any person who provided information leading police to Sierra's safe return, but is now being offered to anyone who can provide information leading to the successful prosecution of the individual or individuals responsible for the teen's March 16 disappearance.

Sierra LaMar Fund trustees will decide who would receive the reward and if it would be paid.

Fliers with Sierra's picture have also changed, Steve LaMar said. In bold, red capitalized letters at the top of notice is the word "Abducted," changed from "Endangered/Missing."

http://losaltos.patch.com/articles/reward-for-sierra-lamars-whereabouts-increases-to-35k-debc9c28
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:50 am

bumping

SIERRA LAMAR TIMELINE

snipped
BBM

MARCH 18: Crews find Sierra's pink Juicy-brand bag with a folded T-shirt and pants. Investigators don't make the information public for four days. Boat teams begin to search large reservoirs and ponds.

MARCH 20: Klaas Kids Foundation organizes the first volunteer searches. Sheriff now believes Sierra was abducted.

APRIL 4: Cadaver dogs join the search.


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sierra-LaMar-Timeline-152707485.html
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:52 am

CBS5's Len Ramirez:

Undercvr investigators in #sierralamar case moved into a trailer next to the suspect so they could watch him.

Len live@5


https://twitter.com/#!/petercbs5

__________________________________________
Antolin Garcia-Torres
MAPLELEAF RV PARK
15200 Monterey Street
Morgan Hill, Ca.


https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=MAPLELEAF+RV+PARK+morgan+hill+ca&daddr=18+Paquita+Espana+Court,+Morgan+Hill,+CA+95037&hl=en&ll=37.14554,-121.671524&spn=0.262169,0.488892&sll=37.145575,-121.671505&sspn=0.131085,0.244446&geocode=FT0zNgIdKRLA-CHX4qHpeCsIMynd4HxQCyCOgDFd-9ITZfsSZg%3BFa5oNwId3d---CkBrWuufCaOgDHRyPEk2oC0WA&t=h&gl=us&mra=ls&z=11
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:03 am

Videos

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/results/?keywords=sierra+lamar&x=0&y=0
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:09 am

[b]Sierra LaMar Suspect Lawyer Steps Down


Snipped

-"This is a highly forensic case."

-"Ken Mandel told me last week that he thought the evidence against Garcia-Torres was weak"



Video
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sierra-LaMar-Suspect-157859145.html
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:11 am

Interview Steve Lamar



http://www.nbcbayarea.com/video/#!/news/local/The-Interview--Steve-LaMar/146230785
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:35 am

Freckles wrote:
Stolat wrote:

I don't know Freckles.... but at age 5 I was attempted kidnapped and to this very day the image of that guy is burned in my brain - I could draw a picture of him today. I understand not everyone has good memories for details -- that has not been an issue for me for certain things, especially when it was traumatic. I still remember it was a long green car from the 70's (which my grandmother confirms was an old leSabre since she saw the car). The guy looked like Davy Jones of the Monkees -- not a bad looking kid - but uber creepola. Early 20's but he had a young face. I knew he was older because of how confident he was and how syrup-y sweet he was. He pulled over to the side of the road as I played outside my grandmother's house and he had 2 brown paper sacks of groceries in the long singular front seat bench with him. He had the passenger window open and spoke to me. He had one of those striped shirts like they wore on That 70's show and he had his brown hair longer and swept to the side with soft brown eyes. He told me he knew my grandmother and he offered me candy since he just came from the store, he leaned over and opened the passenger door wide, which was facing me, and he told me I could get chocolate from the 2nd bag and that he couldn't reach it but I could help myself. I hesitated and told him I couldn't talk to strangers and he said it was ok - that he was friends with my grandmother and saw her all the time. I took a step forward and hesitated and started to put my hand out a bit but wasn't quite sure. At that moment he reached his arm over and had his hand extended out and I realized he lied about not being able to reach (of course he could because he also opened the door). He was going to grab my arm. I jumped back startled and my grandmother came running out of the house yelling my name. He sped off like a bat out of hell screetching tires and even drove wtih the door still open until it slammed shut when he went around the corner. My grandmother called the cops but they couldn't find the guy. Things were different back then and not as easy to track people down in a big city. It didn't really hit me at first but since my grandmother was crying all day I knew something about it must have been a big deal. As I got older and started to read about child abductions I realized I almost became a piece of trash that day - a statistic. It scares me now more than it scared me then. That image of that guy will never die in my head. And it only happened in what - 30 or 60 seconds? But it played out like slow motion as if each frame in a film stopped in time.
Years ago, pn my way to work from a bus top, a man called me over to his car. Like a dumb fool, I went. Well, he was busy pleasuring himself. I scolded him, walked away, and looked back to get the plate info. At work, I called it into PD. Officers later came to my apartment and took more details while showing me pictures. Nothing there. About a week later, detectives arrived and opened a file folder. There was an almost perfect sketch of the man's face. I was stunned and told them the hair was about an inch longer. They informed me they would not need me to testify; the had run the plate and discovered the car had been loaned to this man. However, by the time the car was located, the man had raped a coed and the sketch was compiled upon her description. They were able to link the info I had given and the plate. The license number I will never forget: KDX 899-- white Ford, 1974. Yes I recall but I was not the one under stress and I was an adult.
Sharp children and well trained would recall more than a child caught unawares, IMO.

I am glad you got away. That must have been very scary.


I am of the opinion that many of us would have similar stories. I am glad that nothing happened to you as well. I also remember an incident from when I was about 14 and had been out babysitting and coming home very late. There was a red car with 4 men in it that had stopped and offered me a ride home I only lived about four or five houses away. I would not have been able to identify any of them as the only thing I remembered looking at (even at the time) was the pile of panties in the back window... I ran to the closest driveway and thankfully the neighbourhood I lived in was very sheltered in someways; no one ever locked their doors and went into the house... woke those people up and scared them to death but the car drove away as soon as I opened the door. No one called the police but after that parents in the area ensured that the girls got home safe.. if anyone was out after 10 pm.. So naive back then!
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:49 am

Crews Search Again for Sierra LaMar


snipped
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Santa Clara County sheriff's dive team will conduct a re-scan of the Chesbro Reservoir in search of clues in the Sierra LaMar case.

The re-scan is not based on tips, according to authorities. The detectives in the case "requested the Dive Team to conduct a re-scan ... with the new Side-Scan Sonar equipment the team recently acquired," according to a release.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47862878#.T-AEL45WTBI
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:56 am

Detectives Hope High-Resolution Sonar Will Uncover New Evidence in LaMar Case


-“The detectives wanted them to review Chesbro because the first time it was [searched] with old equipment,” Sgt. Jose Cardoza of the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Department said.

-Cardoza said the focus has recently been on Uvas and Chesbro reservoirs because they’re both located close to the area where Sierra’s personal items were found. The Sobrato High teen’s Juicy-brand bag was recovered near Laguna Avenue and Santa Teresa Boulevard days after her March 16 disappearance, and her cell phone was found 20-30 feet off the roadway near Santa Teresa Boulevard and Scheller Avenue, just a couple blocks from where her bag was located.

-Detectives are maintaining their searches in South Santa Clara County because they “don’t have evidence that Sierra ever left” Morgan Hill, Cardoza said.



http://unioncity.patch.com/articles/detectives-hope-high-resolution-sonar-will-uncover-new-evidence-in-lamar-case
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:19 am

I get the impression there is a particular item of interest the divers have been told to look for besides the obvious. First, Sgt. Cardoza does not need to explain why a reservoir is being searched in a missing persons case. The answer is quite obvious. In the article Sgt. Cardoza gives an explanation that the sonar equipment was not always working properly. He explains they want to go back over the Chesbro Reservoir with their new equipment. Good enough. Yet Sgt. Cardoza chooses to go deeper with more reasoning stating they're hoping to locate "additional evidence" and "missed clues" in the Sierra Lamar case. He even explains why the Chesbro and Uvas reservoirs have been singled out. Does anyone else notice Sgt. Cardoza's descriptive reasoning and added details? Maybe I am reading way more into something that is absolutely nothing?

Snipped- “The detectives wanted them to review Chesbro because the first time it was [searched] with old equipment,” Sgt. Jose Cardoza of the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Department said. “Detectives are hoping if the dive team goes again they may be able to locate some additional evidence related to the Sierra LaMar case.”

http://unioncity.patch.com/articles/detectives-hope-high-resolution-sonar-will-uncover-new-evidence-in-lamar-case
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:40 am

Lash wrote:I get the impression there is a particular item of interest the divers have been told to look for besides the obvious. First, Sgt. Cardoza does not need to explain why a reservoir is being searched in a missing persons case. The answer is quite obvious. In the article Sgt. Cardoza gives an explanation that the sonar equipment was not always working properly. He explains they want to go back over the Chesbro Reservoir with their new equipment. Good enough. Yet Sgt. Cardoza chooses to go deeper with more reasoning stating they're hoping to locate "additional evidence" and "missed clues" in the Sierra Lamar case. He even explains why the Chesbro and Uvas reservoirs have been singled out. Does anyone else notice Sgt. Cardoza's descriptive reasoning and added details? Maybe I am reading way more into something that is absolutely nothing?

Snipped- “The detectives wanted them to review Chesbro because the first time it was [searched] with old equipment,” Sgt. Jose Cardoza of the Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Department said. “Detectives are hoping if the dive team goes again they may be able to locate some additional evidence related to the Sierra LaMar case.”

http://unioncity.patch.com/articles/detectives-hope-high-resolution-sonar-will-uncover-new-evidence-in-lamar-case

I noticed it too.

There is no need for LE to offer explanations as to why they are searching or researching any areas in this case.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:48 pm

I noticed that they mentioned "Since Garcia-Torres’ arrest, Gilroy police have identified a suspect in two child annoyance investigations. But police cannot say whether the identified suspect is Garcia-Torres."

too funny... if it wasn't him they would say he was not connected...lol love the double talk!

I think that the DNA evidence that leads them to believe Sierra is deceased must be significant. Different types of cells within the body although the DNA would be the same would also have a different characteristic. I am speculating that there was some type of identifier other than just DNA that allowed the conclusion of murdered either in the car or on her clothing. JMO

"Detectives believe Sierra, 15, was kidnapped and murdered by Morgan Hill resident Antolin Garcia-Torres based on DNA evidence linking him to the teen’s multi-month disappearance."

http://unioncity.patch.com/articles/detectives-hope-high-resolution-sonar-will-uncover-new-evidence-in-lamar-case

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:54 pm

justanopinion wrote:I noticed that they mentioned "Since Garcia-Torres’ arrest, Gilroy police have identified a suspect in two child annoyance investigations. But police cannot say whether the identified suspect is Garcia-Torres."

too funny... if it wasn't him they would say he was not connected...lol love the double talk!

I think that the DNA evidence that leads them to believe Sierra is deceased must be significant. Different types of cells within the body although the DNA would be the same would also have a different characteristic. I am speculating that there was some type of identifier other than just DNA that allowed the conclusion of murdered either in the car or on her clothing. JMO

"Detectives believe Sierra, 15, was kidnapped and murdered by Morgan Hill resident Antolin Garcia-Torres based on DNA evidence linking him to the teen’s multi-month disappearance."

http://unioncity.patch.com/articles/detectives-hope-high-resolution-sonar-will-uncover-new-evidence-in-lamar-case


Hi JMO,

I Posted a part of a timeline the other night and bolded April 4, cadaver dogs brought in. I wonder if they hit on cadaverine and that's what LE is basing their assertion upon that.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Lash on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:26 pm

Sierra LaMar Instagram Post a Hoax
By Sajid Farooq |  Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012

Missing 15-year-old's account was hacked and fake messages were posted.

An Instagram message claiming to have been posted by missing teenager Sierra LaMar asking for help was a hoax, according to authorities.

Someone claiming to be the missing 15-year-old took a screen grab from Facebook of the girl with the message "please call the police he's coming back" and giving an address in Saratoga and posting it on the girl's Instagram account.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sierra-LaMar-Instagram-Post-a-Hoax-159582945.html
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:37 pm

Lash wrote:Sierra LaMar Instagram Post a Hoax
By Sajid Farooq |  Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012

Missing 15-year-old's account was hacked and fake messages were posted.

An Instagram message claiming to have been posted by missing teenager Sierra LaMar asking for help was a hoax, according to authorities.

Someone claiming to be the missing 15-year-old took a screen grab from Facebook of the girl with the message "please call the police he's coming back" and giving an address in Saratoga and posting it on the girl's Instagram account.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Sierra-LaMar-Instagram-Post-a-Hoax-159582945.html

also at
http://www.mercurynews.com/sierra-lamar/ci_20890589/sheriffs-office-hacker-created-fake-sierra-lamar-posting


what is wrong with people... seriously wtf! Are police getting too close to finding an accomplice that they are trying for re-direction and wasting LE resources and time?
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Honeysage on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:28 pm

http://newark.patch.com/articles/high-tech-task-force-to-investigate-sierra-lamar-facebook-posts
High-Tech Task Force to Investigate Sierra LaMar Facebook Posts


Detectives reached out to the Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team Task Force (REACT) Tuesday morning because they’re tired of people interfering with the investigation by posting messages claiming to be from the missing teen.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:07 pm

Honeysage wrote:http://newark.patch.com/articles/high-tech-task-force-to-investigate-sierra-lamar-facebook-posts
High-Tech Task Force to Investigate Sierra LaMar Facebook Posts


Detectives reached out to the Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team Task Force (REACT) Tuesday morning because they’re tired of people interfering with the investigation by posting messages claiming to be from the missing teen.

Is it really interfering with their investigation?
They said she is dead, murdered in fact.


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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Freckles on Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:22 pm

At this point, I am most skeptical regarding any collected forensics actually belonging to this perp. Yes, I do think he MIGHT be linked to the priors at the grocery store but I don't recall when those were or if the statues have expired at what the charges could have been. Too much time taints evidence and provides opportunities for DNA to be planted for future harvesting. This is troublesome.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by kimi_SFC on Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:49 am


High-Tech Task Force to Investigate Sierra LaMar Facebook Posts
By Corinne Speckert | 1:00 pm

Detectives will be working with the Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team Task Force, which deals with high-tech crimes, to find the individuals responsible for the fraudulent posts.

The Santa Clara County Sheriff’s Office is enlisting the help of a special task force dealing with high-tech crimes to find the individuals responsible for the two posts believed to be sent from Morgan Hill teen Sierra LaMar’s Facebook account late Monday night and early Tuesday morning.

Detectives reached out to the Rapid Enforcement Allied Computer Team Task Force (REACT) Tuesday morning because they’re tired of people interfering with the investigation by posting messages claiming to be from the missing teen. LaMar has been missing for over three months and detectives believe she was kidnapped by Antolin Garcia-Torres, who is currently being tried for her murder.

Cardoza said the goal is to locate the person or persons responsible for the two Facebook posts so they can file the appropriate cases with the district attorney’s office.

Impersonating someone through a social media website is a misdemeanor under California penal code 528.5. General misdemeanors usually carry a punishment of no more than six months in jail or a fine of one thousand dollars, but Cardoza said he doesn’t know if the incidents would qualify as a general misdemeanor.  


More@Link

http://gilroy.patch.com/articles/high-tech-task-force-to-investigate-sierra-lamar-facebook-posts

I hope the REACT task force is able assist the DA in bringing indictments on multiple counts. Further, I pray for convictions with maximum sentences to be served CONSECUTIVELY! Accountability is long overdue and I am looking forward to justice finding its was to these thugs who hide behind computer screens and IP addresses. This is #JusticeForSierra too!
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kimi_SFC

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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by snowbird on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:19 am

IMO this is someone with a cold cold heart that would use her account. It has crossed my mind it could be someone who is trying to help the person accused of the crime of kidnapping and murder. I hope it was not someone close to the accused murder. We know that the defense will use these messages to prove that she is still alive. If they don't find out who sent these messages, then they will be able to use this to cause doubt in the juries mind and it might work unless they have strong evidence of her being dead.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

Post by Chickenbutt on Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:28 am

Or it's just one sick puppy who thinks it's funny.
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Re: Sierra Lamar -- Missing 3/16/12 #2

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