George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by marcena2 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:31 pm

Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:The donors will come on even stronger now, in my opinion. It isn't about GZ or Shellie, its about beating the system...IMO

True.
I bet there are a bunch of good ol' boys logging on.

I spent an entire day (while laid up) just browsing pro-zimmerman blogs and yep, you are right, they are gun people, cop haters, or just pure against the establishment type people. I mean, hey, to each his own - but that is the type that is sending in the money. One site told its members to send as much as possible but at least a dollar to help "the cause."

One day I asked myself:
"who would I have to be in order to donate to his defense?"

And then I recalled having lived in the South West and found some of my answers.

Google conservative treehouse and you will see. "This is NOT just about Shellie and George Zimmerman, this is about YOU.   What they are going through could happen to any one of us.   Shellie has been charged with a felony for perjury where no perjury exists.   George has been charged with 2nd Degree Murder, where no murder exists.   They will know the size of the support for them by the sheer magnitude of donations to help them.   Please consider your support."

I kid you not.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Chickenbutt on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:32 pm

Thinking about who Ken may be....I first looked at MOM's site. No Ken listed there as an associate atty. Maybe a PI? Maybe a friend that had a hand in the paypal acct and donations. Maybe another friend who has experience fleeing the law and knows about gift cards and such?
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by CherokeeNative on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:36 pm

marcena2 wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:The donors will come on even stronger now, in my opinion. It isn't about GZ or Shellie, its about beating the system...IMO

True.
I bet there are a bunch of good ol' boys logging on.

I spent an entire day (while laid up) just browsing pro-zimmerman blogs and yep, you are right, they are gun people, cop haters, or just pure against the establishment type people. I mean, hey, to each his own - but that is the type that is sending in the money. One site told its members to send as much as possible but at least a dollar to help "the cause."

One day I asked myself:
"who would I have to be in order to donate to his defense?"

And then I recalled having lived in the South West and found some of my answers.

Google conservative treehouse and you will see. "This is NOT just about Shellie and George Zimmerman, this is about YOU.   What they are going through could happen to any one of us.   Shellie has been charged with a felony for perjury where no perjury exists.   George has been charged with 2nd Degree Murder, where no murder exists.   They will know the size of the support for them by the sheer magnitude of donations to help them.   Please consider your support."

I kid you not.

Thanks Marcena. This is why I say it has gotten out of control and our legislature has to do something about it. It is tilting the scales of justice in the worst way and that attorneys are joining in on the concept is extremely troublesome.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:36 pm

No kidding CN. A few things daddy Z forgot to tell George. No matter what never talk to the police without an attorney present, whether guilty or not, even if it means a night or two in jail. And for heavens sake, don't discuss anything relating to legal proceedings on the jail phone. Oh, and unless you are actually smarter than a fifth grader, don't try to get over on the court/judicial system.

CherokeeNative wrote:Daddy Z did a fine job of raising his son didn't he, being in the judicial system...guess that is where GZ gets all of his respect for LE and truth. I am surprised at the level of sophistication that GZ and Shellie were going with the money. Obviously, someone was coaching them - I am dying to know who Ken is.

ETA: And I am just dying to see MOM try to pull off this "they were afraid" B.S. after reading the APC...whew...good luck with that.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by WeeBonnie on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:38 pm

People so stupid they think the country would be better off if they policed it.
I don't think do. Most if them would rob their own neighbors blind if they could.



CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:The donors will come on even stronger now, in my opinion. It isn't about GZ or Shellie, its about beating the system...IMO

True.
I bet there are a bunch of good ol' boys logging on.

I spent an entire day (while laid up) just browsing pro-zimmerman blogs and yep, you are right, they are gun people, cop haters, or just pure against the establishment type people. I mean, hey, to each his own - but that is the type that is sending in the money. One site told its members to send as much as possible but at least a dollar to help "the cause."

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by WeeBonnie on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:42 pm

CB I bet it's more code!!!


Chickenbutt wrote:Thinking about who Ken may be....I first looked at MOM's site. No Ken listed there as an associate atty. Maybe a PI? Maybe a friend that had a hand in the paypal acct and donations. Maybe another friend who has experience fleeing the law and knows about gift cards and such?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Tamta on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:43 pm

Can you pay bond with a Gift Card?
No
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by serenaz1 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:45 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:http://kmsstv.com/files/kmsstv/Shellie%20Zimmerman%20Arrest%206-12-12.pdf

This is the link to the capias and APC for SZ.


I would laugh my butt off if they got in trouble for putting cash in the safe deposit box, that's also illegal!

btw..thanks for the link! I guess I missed something though, where is Ken referenced?

Nevermind the Ken question, I read it again & caught it this time. :)




Last edited by serenaz1 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by CherokeeNative on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:49 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:http://kmsstv.com/files/kmsstv/Shellie%20Zimmerman%20Arrest%206-12-12.pdf

This is the link to the capias and APC for SZ.


I would laugh my butt off if they got in trouble for putting cash in the safe deposit box, that's also illegal!

OMG - that would be just hillarious...and what if Ken is someone on MOM's office? This whole thing could come crumbling down....this is better than a soap opera.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Chickenbutt on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:50 pm

Is there anyway to find out the employees names at MOM's office? His paralegals, his PI etc? His website only shows another atty....female Truett I think her name was.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Chickenbutt on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:52 pm

Wee, lets think about what Ken would be code for....Who do you think it could be?
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by WeeBonnie on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:53 pm

But can't they still leverage this- offer to drop the charges?
Alternatively, if they do prosecute her, couldn't it then be said in court that he aided in her attempt to mislead the court? Didnt he file false claims in court himself? I'm thinking if he tries to take the stand it's going to be, for the most part admissable.
I think they will try to get him to plea OR even better- get Shelly to turn on him.
If anyone aside from GZ knows what happened that night it's GZ.... She's going to see he's used others and gotten them locked up before too.

Hey Shelley do 10 years in the pen and you'll get a nice shout out from George on MySpace as thanks!


CherokeeNative wrote:
Porky wrote:Oh I had it backwards. I previously said that I thought the state would use a perjury charge as leverage against GZ. I am hearing now that more likely the state will force her into a guilty plea on a felony charge so that at his trial the state can ask her if she has ever been found guilty of a felony-- and perjury at that!

I thought about that too Porky - but that doesn't make sense. She has nothing to testify to, except for what she knows of him...and that isn't beneficial. Of course his wife is only going to say good things. Just sayin...

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Freckles on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:56 pm

snowbird wrote:From the above article so was George sister involved with hiding the money too, 47,000 transferred to her account from George account to his sister's account. WOW
Listening to talk radio. Apparently, one of the phone calls between GZ/SZ was at sister's bank with sister present.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by WeeBonnie on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:56 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:Wee, lets think about what Ken would be code for....Who do you think it could be?

I don't know names of any of the people, but I know we will crack this wide open!
Also re safe deposit- is he also referring to the passport?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by serenaz1 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:57 pm

How cheesy is it that they were trying to hide it in gift cards?!? These two are really mental midgets.

If Nurse Shellie Ratchitt tried to be my nurse, I'd get away from her as fast as I could!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Freckles on Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:59 pm

marcena2 wrote:It is but Shellie says- Ken was saying I should have as much cash as possible. I thought so at first but in the context it doesn't make sense.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/06/12/Shellie_Zimmerman_Arrest_6-12-12.pdf
What were the first names of the first two attys GZ had to represent him?
The two who stepped aside?
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by alabama52 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:00 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:The donors will come on even stronger now, in my opinion. It isn't about GZ or Shellie, its about beating the system...IMO

True.
I bet there are a bunch of good ol' boys logging on.

I spent an entire day (while laid up) just browsing pro-zimmerman blogs and yep, you are right, they are gun people, cop haters, or just pure against the establishment type people. I mean, hey, to each his own - but that is the type that is sending in the money. One site told its members to send as much as possible but at least a dollar to help "the cause."

One day I asked myself:







"who would I have to be in order to donate to his defense?"

And then I recalled having lived in the South West and found some of my answers.

Yeah, it's scary when you think about how some people still feel in the southern states...



Cherokee, with all due respect, there are good 'ole boys across the nation. As just one example, look at that nut, Ted Nugent with the NRA.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Porky on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:04 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:But can't they still leverage this- offer to drop the charges?
Alternatively, if they do prosecute her, couldn't it then be said in court that he aided in her attempt to mislead the court? Didnt he file false claims in court himself? I'm thinking if he tries to take the stand it's going to be, for the most part admissable.
I think they will try to get him to plea OR even better- get Shelly to turn on him.
If anyone aside from GZ knows what happened that night it's GZ.... She's going to see he's used others and gotten them locked up before too.

Hey Shelley do 10 years in the pen and you'll get a nice shout out from George on MySpace as thanks!

Wee. Yes for sure, I would think that is always a possibility.


CherokeeNative wrote:
Porky wrote:Oh I had it backwards. I previously said that I thought the state would use a perjury charge as leverage against GZ. I am hearing now that more likely the state will force her into a guilty plea on a felony charge so that at his trial the state can ask her if she has ever been found guilty of a felony-- and perjury at that!

I thought about that too Porky - but that doesn't make sense. She has nothing to testify to, except for what she knows of him...and that isn't beneficial. Of course his wife is only going to say good things. Just sayin...

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:06 pm

It is not actually illegal to store cash in a safe deposit box, unless that cash is obtained through illegal activity and/or is placed there to avoid paying taxes. If bank employees believe any illegal activity is occurring via the use of a safe deposit box, they are required to file a SAR with the Feds. I would suppose the Zimmerman's could be viewed as having used the safe deposit box to avoid paying taxes, but it seems to me that they were most likely attempting to avoid paying bail.

I have no link to support the above, just personal knowledge about banking regulations via a spouse who serves on a bank board.

serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:http://kmsstv.com/files/kmsstv/Shellie%20Zimmerman%20Arrest%206-12-12.pdf

This is the link to the capias and APC for SZ.


I would laugh my butt off if they got in trouble for putting cash in the safe deposit box, that's also illegal!

btw..thanks for the link! I guess I missed something though, where is Ken referenced?

Nevermind the Ken question, I read it again & caught it this time. :)



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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by alabama52 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:09 pm

Freckles wrote:
marcena2 wrote:It is but Shellie says- Ken was saying I should have as much cash as possible. I thought so at first but in the context it doesn't make sense.

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2012/06/12/Shellie_Zimmerman_Arrest_6-12-12.pdf
What were the first names of the first two attys GZ had to represent him?
The two who stepped aside?


Craig Sonner & Hal Uhrig

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by serenaz1 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:13 pm

Requiem wrote:It is not actually illegal to store cash in a safe deposit box, unless that cash is obtained through illegal activity and/or is placed there to avoid paying taxes. If bank employees believe any illegal activity is occurring via the use of a safe deposit box, they are required to file a SAR with the Feds. I would suppose the Zimmerman's could be viewed as having used the safe deposit box to avoid paying taxes, but it seems to me that they were most likely attempting to avoid paying bail.

I have no link to support the above, just personal knowledge about banking regulations via a spouse who serves on a bank board.


That may be how it is. Back in the 70's I used to work in branches and thought I remembered that you weren't allowed to, like it was an old thing from the Depression, because you were taking money out of circulation.

BUT, nowadays my brain kinda makes crap up, so who knows where I got the thought. Very Happy
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:29 pm

LOL serenaz, I know exactly how you feel. I very much appreciated the thought, and like I said, one might argue they were attempting to avoid taxes. Especially if the cash is still in the box. Many people are under the impression that you can't keep cash in a safe deposit box. I for one don't see the rational unless the person is up to no good. But a lot of people keep cash in them just in case.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by WeeBonnie on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:29 pm

I was thinking the safe deposit money were direct donations mailed to them or funneled from Taffe? Libertarians would sure get off on helping them screw Uncle Sam. So they felt were untracable. Just a hunch.

But I guess it's too early in the tax year to report that anyway? I hope the police have tossed both her place and GZs. And the sisters.
And checked under the matresses- because hey are MORONS.



Requiem wrote:It is not actually illegal to store cash in a safe deposit box, unless that cash is obtained through illegal activity and/or is placed there to avoid paying taxes. If bank employees believe any illegal activity is occurring via the use of a safe deposit box, they are required to file a SAR with the Feds. I would suppose the Zimmerman's could be viewed as having used the safe deposit box to avoid paying taxes, but it seems to me that they were most likely attempting to avoid paying bail.

I have no link to support the above, just personal knowledge about banking regulations via a spouse who serves on a bank board.

serenaz1 wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:http://kmsstv.com/files/kmsstv/Shellie%20Zimmerman%20Arrest%206-12-12.pdf

This is the link to the capias and APC for SZ.


I would laugh my butt off if they got in trouble for putting cash in the safe deposit box, that's also illegal!

btw..thanks for the link! I guess I missed something though, where is Ken referenced?

Nevermind the Ken question, I read it again & caught it this time. :)



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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by WeeBonnie on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:46 pm

Can the prosecuters supeana this "Ken" person- somehow force the Zims to ID him?
Or is that only on TV?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Chickenbutt on Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:50 pm

Don't know Wee. Until further notice, I am going with Ken being a scuzzy friend of theirs who has experienced the necessity of running from the police and/or hiding money.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Porky on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:00 am

Chickenbutt wrote:Don't know Wee. Until further notice, I am going with Ken being a scuzzy friend of theirs who has experienced the necessity of running from the police and/or hiding money.

I think so too. I do not that MOM would be dumb enough to have someone in his office advising them. He could get disbarred for that kind of stuff

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:01 am

Requiem wrote:LOL serenaz, I know exactly how you feel. I very much appreciated the thought, and like I said, one might argue they were attempting to avoid taxes. Especially if the cash is still in the box. Many people are under the impression that you can't keep cash in a safe deposit box. I for one don't see the rational unless the person is up to no good. But a lot of people keep cash in them just in case.

Well, this old dog learned something new today, thanks!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:02 am

LMAO, CB. Ken might even be a personal advisor from the Treehouse. One thing for sure, they were bouncing so much money around we may never know how much money they collected and from whom. Obviously, their spending allowance is such that Shellie was able to bond herself out in short order. I wonder if she is allowed to run back to the dooms day bunker.

(And no, I have no basis in fact that they are staying in a dooms day bunker, that was a lame attempt at humor). Very Happy

Chickenbutt wrote:Don't know Wee. Until further notice, I am going with Ken being a scuzzy friend of theirs who has experienced the necessity of running from the police and/or hiding money.


Last edited by Requiem on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:04 am

WeeBonnie wrote:I was thinking the safe deposit money were direct donations mailed to them or funneled from Taffe? Libertarians would sure get off on helping them screw Uncle Sam. So they felt were untracable. Just a hunch.

But I guess it's too early in the tax year to report that anyway? I hope the police have tossed both her place and GZs. And the sisters.
And checked under the matresses- because hey are MORONS.

Good thinking! I bet you're right because a lot of people would send cash so no paper trail, some don't like to do online monetary transactions or send checks.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:04 am

George Zimmerman's Wife Arrested: Shellie Zimmerman Charged With Perjury

By KYLE HIGHTOWER
06/12/12 07:18 PM ET



ORLANDO, Fla. — The wife of Trayvon Martin's shooter was charged with perjury Tuesday, accused of lying when she told a judge that the couple had limited funds during a hearing that resulted in her husband being released on $150,000 bond.

Shellie Zimmerman, 25, was released on $1,000 bond on the third-degree felony that is punishable by up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine. George Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder in the teen's slaying and had been out on bond after the April 20 hearing. However, Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester on June 1 revoked the bond and ordered Zimmerman returned to the Seminole County Jail. In a strongly worded ruling, Lester said the Zimmermans lied about how much money they had.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/12/shellie-zimmerman-arrested-charged-perjury_n_1591156.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl7%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D169256
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:06 am

serenaz1 wrote:Judge Lester filed his report re bond revocation yesterday:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-revoked-order-20120612_1_bond-decision-jailhouse-phone-george-zimmerman

{snip from article}
Among them, "this is a serious charge for which life may be imposed; the evidence against him is strong; he has been charged with one prior crime, for which he went through a pre-trial diversion program, and has had an injunction lodged against him" for domestic violence.

"Most importantly, though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he does not properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process," Lester wrote.

The only factors that "heavily weigh in his favor," Lester wrote, are "that he turned himself in upon the issuance of the original warrant and has kept authorities abreast of his current location."


Here's the document:
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/order%20revoking%20bond.pdf

I read the whole document. I've never read a bond revocation before. I am curious if anyone here knows-- it is typical for a judge to "editorialize" and express an opinion about the evidence in a case in a document like this? What does the case evidence have to do with why the bond was revoked? And what does his past history have to do with why the judge is NOW revoking his bond? I totally "get" why GZ's bond was revoked-- and the lies should be more than sufficient. But these additional comments seem to me to be unnecessary, and "piling on"-- and the comment about the evidence being "strong" seems to be the judge rendering an opinion about how the case is/ should go. To me, that crossed a line to where the judge is now openly siding with the prosecution-- which appears to put the defense at a substantial disadvantage.

But maybe a judge has no obligation to be impartial about the evidence, since he represents the justice system that is prosecuting the defendant?

Maybe that's another technique-- persuade GZ he can never get a fair trial, so he will plead, and avoid a trial altogether. Who knows.

Deb From Hell-- can you ask your legal beagles at TL that question-- about the judge editorializing in the bond revocation, and bringing up old charges not related to the present case?

I also see SZ's arrest as an Angela Corey strategy. In a couple of her cases I researched, she "punished" the defendant when he turned down a plea, and filed new charges the next day. Punishment, or strategy? In each case, it felt like prosecutorial punishment as I read it. I typically revere and support most SA's-- but the more I learn about AC's techniques and how she applies them, the less I respect her. I feel like she plays especially "dirty" and vindictive, and holds a grudge. The whole "perjury" thing is very selectively prosecuted-- remember Cindy Anthony's blatant and overt perjury? There was nothing to gain for the SA by prosecuting her, so nothing at all was done. The only reason to prosecute SZ is to punish GZ further-- to use her prosecution as a bargaining chip. Yes, she lied-- and it would make MORE sense to me to charge her with contempt-- fine her a big fine, rather than cost the county more to prosecute her.

GZ and SZ clearly perpetrated a fraud upon the court. And that SHOULD be enough all on its own. So I am very conflicted about why I feel like I should take a shower every time I read something about the prosecution. Why am I not feeling like cheering them on?

Something ethically doesn't feel right to me about how this prosecution is unfolding, and I can't put my finger on exactly why. (And most of you know I'm not a troll or a GZ sympathizer.) I wish I could figure out why I feel like this!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:16 am

KZ, I'm not Deb, and I don't have ready access to legal opinions, but I understand what you are saying. I posted earlier about the strong language used by Judge Lester. I fully expect to see a motion for recusal filed by the defense. His order makes it appear that he has all but made up his mind prior to hearing the legal arguments. Especially as it applies to immunity from prosecution for GZ.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:31 am

Thanks for your comments, Requiem-- should have made it more clear that anyone was welcome to weigh in.

You summarized it better than I did, and were brave enough to say it more strongly. I agree-- I am concerned that Judge Lester has made up his mind, and sided with the prosecution, before any real pretrial motions or hearings have even commenced. That bothers me a lot. That is not how our justice system is supposed to work.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Porky on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:33 am

Part setting bail is a Judge has weigh to weigh the strength of the evidence in setting bail. If the evidence is very weak for example, a Judge has the discretion to set a low bail. I think that the Judge was just dotting his alphabets in case MOM decided to appeal.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Porky on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:39 am

Here you go.Please see the section "Stages of a Criminal case -arrest and bail

http://www.andrewdstine.com/home/firm-overview/criminal-defense-information-center/criminal-defense-overview.aspx

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by CherokeeNative on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:40 am

KZ wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:Judge Lester filed his report re bond revocation yesterday:
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-bond-revoked-order-20120612_1_bond-decision-jailhouse-phone-george-zimmerman

{snip from article}
Among them, "this is a serious charge for which life may be imposed; the evidence against him is strong; he has been charged with one prior crime, for which he went through a pre-trial diversion program, and has had an injunction lodged against him" for domestic violence.

"Most importantly, though, is the fact that he has now demonstrated that he does not properly respect the law or the integrity of the judicial process," Lester wrote.

The only factors that "heavily weigh in his favor," Lester wrote, are "that he turned himself in upon the issuance of the original warrant and has kept authorities abreast of his current location."


Here's the document:
http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/order%20revoking%20bond.pdf

I read the whole document. I've never read a bond revocation before. I am curious if anyone here knows-- it is typical for a judge to "editorialize" and express an opinion about the evidence in a case in a document like this? What does the case evidence have to do with why the bond was revoked? And what does his past history have to do with why the judge is NOW revoking his bond? I totally "get" why GZ's bond was revoked-- and the lies should be more than sufficient. But these additional comments seem to me to be unnecessary, and "piling on"-- and the comment about the evidence being "strong" seems to be the judge rendering an opinion about how the case is/ should go. To me, that crossed a line to where the judge is now openly siding with the prosecution-- which appears to put the defense at a substantial disadvantage.

But maybe a judge has no obligation to be impartial about the evidence, since he represents the justice system that is prosecuting the defendant?

Maybe that's another technique-- persuade GZ he can never get a fair trial, so he will plead, and avoid a trial altogether. Who knows.

Deb From Hell-- can you ask your legal beagles at TL that question-- about the judge editorializing in the bond revocation, and bringing up old charges not related to the present case?

I also see SZ's arrest as an Angela Corey strategy. In a couple of her cases I researched, she "punished" the defendant when he turned down a plea, and filed new charges the next day. Punishment, or strategy? In each case, it felt like prosecutorial punishment as I read it. I typically revere and support most SA's-- but the more I learn about AC's techniques and how she applies them, the less I respect her. I feel like she plays especially "dirty" and vindictive, and holds a grudge. The whole "perjury" thing is very selectively prosecuted-- remember Cindy Anthony's blatant and overt perjury? There was nothing to gain for the SA by prosecuting her, so nothing at all was done. The only reason to prosecute SZ is to punish GZ further-- to use her prosecution as a bargaining chip. Yes, she lied-- and it would make MORE sense to me to charge her with contempt-- fine her a big fine, rather than cost the county more to prosecute her.

GZ and SZ clearly perpetrated a fraud upon the court. And that SHOULD be enough all on its own. So I am very conflicted about why I feel like I should take a shower every time I read something about the prosecution. Why am I not feeling like cheering them on?

Something ethically doesn't feel right to me about how this prosecution is unfolding, and I can't put my finger on exactly why. (And most of you know I'm not a troll or a GZ sympathizer.) I wish I could figure out why I feel like this!

This is most likely what the call "findings of fact and conclusions of law" preceded by the Order. It is the basis for the Order and is then an appealable order that can be reviewed by a higher court and understand the facts and law that the Judge based his ruling on. That is what we must do here in WA and in California.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by CherokeeNative on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:43 am

alabama52 wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:
Tamta wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:The donors will come on even stronger now, in my opinion. It isn't about GZ or Shellie, its about beating the system...IMO

True.
I bet there are a bunch of good ol' boys logging on.

I spent an entire day (while laid up) just browsing pro-zimmerman blogs and yep, you are right, they are gun people, cop haters, or just pure against the establishment type people. I mean, hey, to each his own - but that is the type that is sending in the money. One site told its members to send as much as possible but at least a dollar to help "the cause."

One day I asked myself:







"who would I have to be in order to donate to his defense?"

And then I recalled having lived in the South West and found some of my answers.

Yeah, it's scary when you think about how some people still feel in the southern states...



Cherokee, with all due respect, there are good 'ole boys across the nation. As just one example, look at that nut, Ted Nugent with the NRA.

Alabama - I meant no disrespect. I too am from the South originally until I was a teen so I know this by experience about the good 'ole boys. LOL Cool
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:43 am

Ok, I guess what bothers me as I read the revocation is that the evidence and the past arrests/ charges of GZ have not changed one bit since the ORIGINAL bond hearing. Why were they so pertinent NOW that Judge Lester felt compelled to include them as justification for the revocation of bond, when he openly dismissed them as inconsequential in the original bond hearing?? Especially the "domestic violence" claims-- I specifically remember him pooh-poohing that as a "he said, she said" thing.

It doesn't feel like Judge Lester is being consistent with existing information and history to me-- what was inconsequential a few weeks ago, is now suddenly the first thing mentiones as justification for bond revocation-- and mentioned before the lies about money. That feels hinky to me.

That's why I want to know if this is typical for a bond revocation document. Is there a sort of "template" for dictating the procedure note (to borrow from medical jargon), or did he freehand this and editorialize? I don't have enough background to interpret that. I just see that the comments are inconsistent, so that bugs me.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:46 am

KZ, My observation could be far from the truth, but I was really surprised to read what he included in his order. I do suppose he might have been relating all that he considered when making his decision to grant bail, but I never expected him to state that he felt the evidence for a 2nd degree charge was strong.

Another thing I do recall from the last hearing. Judge Lester all but said he expected charges to be filed by the prosecution. So, it's possible that Angela Corey is doing a bit of brown nosing.

Although I don't approve of her complicity, I feel that all things considered, shellie's deception is minor, and I honestly don't want to see her convicted of a felony and lose her ability to make a decent living in the future, based upon a misguided attempt to help her husband. I also think she got some reallynbad advise, possibly from Ken about how to answer the questions. The "not that I know of" reminded me of the "not that I recall" answer. She was thinking that by not saying no, she could not be charged with perjury if the money was discovered. I think she learned her lesson when GZ was thrown back into the hoosegow. She is definitely being used as an example to anyone else thinking about lying for a defendant in a bond hearing. And hopefully, about taking advise from an arm chair attorney.


Last edited by Requiem on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:51 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Porky on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:48 am

KZ wrote:Ok, I guess what bothers me as I read the revocation is that the evidence and the past arrests/ charges of GZ have not changed one bit since the ORIGINAL bond hearing. Why were they so pertinent NOW that Judge Lester felt compelled to include them as justification for the revocation of bond, when he openly dismissed them as inconsequential in the original bond hearing?? Especially the "domestic violence" claims-- I specifically remember him pooh-poohing that as a "he said, she said" thing.

It doesn't feel like Judge Lester is being consistent with existing information and history to me-- what was inconsequential a few weeks ago, is now suddenly the first thing mentiones as justification for bond revocation-- and mentioned before the lies about money. That feels hinky to me.

That's why I want to know if this is typical for a bond revocation document. Is there a sort of "template" for dictating the procedure note (to borrow from medical jargon), or did he freehand this and editorialize? I don't have enough background to interpret that. I just see that the comments are inconsistent, so that bugs me.

I think that you answered your own question. Initially the Judge probably DID see the domestic violence as a he said he said. The Judge is now aware of a trail of lies by GZ and now realizes that the "he" in the he said she said is a pretty conning liar.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by CherokeeNative on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:51 am

KZ wrote:Ok, I guess what bothers me as I read the revocation is that the evidence and the past arrests/ charges of GZ have not changed one bit since the ORIGINAL bond hearing. Why were they so pertinent NOW that Judge Lester felt compelled to include them as justification for the revocation of bond, when he openly dismissed them as inconsequential in the original bond hearing?? Especially the "domestic violence" claims-- I specifically remember him pooh-poohing that as a "he said, she said" thing.

It doesn't feel like Judge Lester is being consistent with existing information and history to me-- what was inconsequential a few weeks ago, is now suddenly the first thing mentiones as justification for bond revocation-- and mentioned before the lies about money. That feels hinky to me.

That's why I want to know if this is typical for a bond revocation document. Is there a sort of "template" for dictating the procedure note (to borrow from medical jargon), or did he freehand this and editorialize? I don't have enough background to interpret that. I just see that the comments are inconsistent, so that bugs me.

Yes, but he is listing everything that he took into consideration when he made the original bail, and everything that he took into consideration when he revoked it. Just because he appeared to pooh-pooh it doesn't mean that it was not something that he considered in deciding whether or not to set bail and at what amount. No, there isn't a "format" per se - it is drafted by the Judge or his law clerk. It states all of the facts he considered and the legal authority that he based his decisions on. Sometimes the Judge will just do it at the time he makes his Order on his own motivation, or he will do it at the request of the losing party in anticipation of appealing the order. There are Court Rules in my state that requires the losing party to make such a request (usually 8 or 10) "findings of fact and conclusions of law" within a specified time - this gives the Judge a clue that the loser is about to appeal his ruling. Completely normal part of legal briefing...both in civil and criminal law.

ETA - Think I had enough "that"s? There is a reason for "preview" DOH


Last edited by CherokeeNative on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:52 am

Ok, Cherokee, my friend.

I have lived in the north all my life, except when I lived outside of the country (10 years), and a brief USAF stint in OK.

I have 17 years of military service.

I am a professional woman, and a mom.

I have voted both democrat and republican in the past, and consider myself an independent (party-less) now.

I respect cops and prosecutors.

I abhor gun violence.

I support responsible gun ownership, but feel very jittery and worried about lax concealed carry laws.

Where does that pigeonhole me, lol?? I'm not one of any of "them"!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:57 am

Do we know who "Ken" is?
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Chickenbutt on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:00 am

No KZ we don't. I have decided until further notice, that Ken is a scuzzy friend of theirs that has had the opportunity to flee LE and/or hide money.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Tamta on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:01 am

KZ wrote:Do we know who "Ken" is?

I do not think so.

Although it is Lester's first name!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Requiem on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:02 am

Porky, I agree with your thinking that Judge Lester might very well have changed his perception of GZ following the bond fiasco, but doesnt it concern you that his order might result in his recusal? I agree that GZ belongs back in jail, but I don't like the idea that his honor might have included too much of what he was thinking in his order. All that is needed is for GZ to claim that he doesn't feel he can get a fair trial before Judge Lester, and he will be forced to step down. We will then be faced with a third judge overseeing this case. I fear that the comments made by Judge L. in his ruling might give the defense all the proof they need to file a motion for recusal.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:05 am

Chickenbutt wrote:No KZ we don't. I have decided until further notice, that Ken is a scuzzy friend of theirs that has had the opportunity to flee LE and/or hide money.

Now, that's very open minded of you, and nonjudgemental, Chickenbutt! Laughing
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by Chickenbutt on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:07 am

Its as good a guess as anything else I suppose. roflao
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by KZ on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:07 am

Yeah-- I don't think "Ken" Lester is the one who gave her that advice!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #3

Post by CherokeeNative on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:09 am

KZ wrote:Ok, Cherokee, my friend.

I have lived in the north all my life, except when I lived outside of the country (10 years), and a brief USAF stint in OK.

I have 17 years of military service.

I am a professional woman, and a mom.

I have voted both democrat and republican in the past, and consider myself an independent (party-less) now.

I respect cops and prosecutors.

I abhor gun violence.

I support responsible gun ownership, but feel very jittery and worried about lax concealed carry laws.

Where does that pigeonhole me, lol?? I'm not one of any of "them"!

Are you speaking of my comment about scary living in the south or the comment about the type of people who are donating to GZ? I knew this was going to give me grief - I should have taken more care in how it was drafted. Who I was originally speaking of up thread with regard to the donors are the extremist - as an example, the group that refuses to recognize the government - I forget what they call themselves, and people who are against LE in general. And I thought I said that, although poorly, but I haven't gone back to re-read... Then a comment was made by a poster that she was reminded of the way people are in the Southern states, and I said yes, I recall - it was scary. And it was in my eyes as a young teen. My dad carried a gun and he was a good ole boy in some respects but I don't believe in the way some people define "good ole boys" - heck he didn't have a mean bone in his body. In any event, I meant to disrespect to anyone except for the extremists that I was referring to. Thanks for asking me to clear that up.
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