George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:19 pm

Quoting from Ellejays post of Piers Morgan interview:
-snipped-
O'Mara:
So if you're going to say that he has a credibility issue, you also have to look at the statement in the context of everything else that came out that he was not aware of.

So does this mean that had GZ heard everything else that has come out, his story would be different? If you are telling the truth, why would anyone's statement change your story?
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by alabama52 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:31 pm

What??? O'Mara states that George is very concerned for himself. O'Mara states that George is, also, concerned for the position Shellie put HERSELF in?????
George is a piece of work, huh? He is going to let Shellie take the all the blame for the mess she is in.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Porky on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:50 pm

Freckles wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:Holy cow...I just lost a huge post....will try again.
Hubby has been LE for 35+ years. I asked him about the gun issue. This is his response.

Most people are taught to shoot right handed as all semiautomatic guns eject the spent shell to the right. If someone is shooting left handed the ejected shell would hit them in the face. The KelTec9 that GZ has would eject to the right. You can buy an adapter to eject the shell left, but then the weapon would not fit in a holster. The adapters are mostly used for training and range work (all officers have to learn to shoot with both hands).
Guns are also made for right handed shooting. The magazine eject button is on the left of the gun to be used with the right thumb to eject the spent magazine and reload with the left hand. The safety, if the weapon has one, is also on the left of the gun, above the magazine eject button, to be activated on or off with the right thumb.
As to cross drawing, he has seen soe LE use it, but in his experience it is very few.

So there you have it. Hope it helps. And kudos to hubby for aswering my question. He hates this trial stuff.....lol
A few years back, I had read about 80% of Americans are right handed.
(My lefty shoots right AND carries on right hip. Sometime ago I questioned him and asked if it wouldn't be easier to carry on left. He said, for him, no. He has better time pulling from r/hip. He said he wastes time and balance by crossing over. IMO, it is a personal choice.)

I am a lefty, meaning I write left handed. But give me a baseball bat and I can only hit accurately with my right hand. I also use my right hand as the shooting hand when playing basketball but when I sit at the dinner table, I use my left hand

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:56 pm

So, you are a weirdo...what else is new? Laughing
(I told you to be afraid Porky )
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Porky on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:58 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:So, you are a weirdo...what else is new? Laughing
(I told you to be afraid Porky )

Dang I KNEW you were going to get me just as I posted that, Chickenbutt lol crystal ball

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:59 pm

Truce? Now we are even!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:05 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:Not to bring up the issue again - so please don't take off on this - I am just noting an observation that LE do not believe this as well. Did you notice that Serino stops the 911 tape and says, what did you call him? And GZ says "f*cking goon" and Serino plays it again, and says, yeah, you didn't say "f*cking goon".... LOL So clearly, this is something that the state is leaving to the DOJ to prosecute if the State is not successful in its state court case.

I heard that as well....Where they got "punk" from is beyond me.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:08 pm

snowbird wrote:I like how LE handle talking about Tryron to George. They said several times he was a kid, he was a tall skinny kid. He had a future a head of him. He had no record he showed no violence tendencies, he was on drugs like PCP so what would make him so angry at you, so you think he was defending himself from you because he was scared that you followed him. They were trying to humanize this kid to George. Several times they stated he was a kid with a future and what he wanted to do when he grew up.

I think they were looking for some kind of emotion from George for the kid her killed and they got none. That tells me a lot about George who in his written statement claimed Tryron as a suspect.


That really bothered me. Suspect of what?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:13 pm

snowbird wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/21/1101850/-Videos-show-Zimmerman-walking-around-the-clubhouse

This is the link for the clubhouse videos
Just saw the videos, I think this is why the police were trying to get it confirmed about where his car was parked. They even had him mark it on a map and there were questions or he volunteer about the lights staying on for a while after you turn off the car. The cameras are infra red they would still pick up the heat signature after they were turned off. I know this because I had to get the same kind of camera installed at my home. I use to be very good at picking up things with this kind of camera, not so much now. If they are used I believe you can get pictures from the video as long as the whole tape is provided to court. I guess we will see at trail if this will be used in anyway.[/quote]

I know on my camera's around my home, you can see perfectly in the dark, infact when I put my porch light on, it deminishes the camera, it's better when no lights are on.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Porky on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:14 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:Truce? Now we are even!

Heck no :DD

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Porky on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:16 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:
snowbird wrote:I like how LE handle talking about Tryron to George. They said several times he was a kid, he was a tall skinny kid. He had a future a head of him. He had no record he showed no violence tendencies, he was on drugs like PCP so what would make him so angry at you, so you think he was defending himself from you because he was scared that you followed him. They were trying to humanize this kid to George. Several times they stated he was a kid with a future and what he wanted to do when he grew up.

I think they were looking for some kind of emotion from George for the kid her killed and they got none. That tells me a lot about George who in his written statement claimed Tryron as a suspect.

Gizmo

Zimmern said that Travon was peeking into windows, which begs a different question. If Travon is peeking into windows, why does he call non emergency instead of 911>?


That really bothered me. Suspect of what?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:16 pm

It's on.... Cool
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by snowbird on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:55 pm

alabama52 wrote:What??? O'Mara states that George is very concerned for himself. O'Mara states that George is, also, concerned for the position Shellie put HERSELF in?????
George is a piece of work, huh? He is going to let Shellie take the all the blame for the mess she is in.
On his myspace didn't he state that someone else was in trouble but did rat him out. Then it seems part for the course he would let his wife take the fall.
Now I know what it is going to be his defense at bond hearing, it is that he was afraid that something would happen to his wife if he spoke up.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by snowbird on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:56 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:
snowbird wrote:I like how LE handle talking about Tryron to George. They said several times he was a kid, he was a tall skinny kid. He had a future a head of him. He had no record he showed no violence tendencies, he was on drugs like PCP so what would make him so angry at you, so you think he was defending himself from you because he was scared that you followed him. They were trying to humanize this kid to George. Several times they stated he was a kid with a future and what he wanted to do when he grew up.

I think they were looking for some kind of emotion from George for the kid her killed and they got none. That tells me a lot about George who in his written statement claimed Tryron as a suspect.


That really bothered me. Suspect of what?
Because he was walking in the rain looking around. It is all in his written statement he refers to Trayon as the suspect. The Le kept trying to push him on why he though he was a suspect. I believe that is where Murder 2 comes into the picture. He had profiles him as a criminal.


Last edited by snowbird on Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to add to coment)
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by alabama52 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:31 pm

Snowbird, yep, George's friends do a year in jail. George: "They do a year and don't ever open their (sic) mouth to get my ass pinched."
His statement doesn't sound a bit like he feels guilty. He's bragging. Nice guy, huh?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:55 pm

snowbird wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:


That really bothered me. Suspect of what?
Because he was walking in the rain looking around. It is all in his written statement he refers to Trayon as the suspect. The Le kept trying to push him on why he though he was a suspect. I believe that is where Murder 2 comes into the picture. He had profiles him as a criminal.

Exactly! Why was he a suspect? What was Trayvon doing that could have been perceived as unlawful, or illegal?

What right or authority does Zimmerman have to profile Trayvon as a criminal, and to engage on pursuit of someone that he perceived as a suspect?

What exactly was Trayvon doing that appeared suspicious to him, walking in the rain?

Yes, that's is why he was charged with second degree murder, the shooting of Trayvon Martin was not an act of self defense.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by angela_nw on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:37 pm

Please check this out: video tape from 2/27 (called Zimmerman interview with CVSA Expert) at the very beginning after the first person leaves the room and GZ is left with the female officer (sorry do not have name) - this is what I got from listening:

GZ: have you ever had to shoot anybody?
Female officer: no
GZ: well good for you
GZ: you’re probably stern enough to get the point ...
Female: what?
GZ: you’ve got that
Female: hum
GZ: authoritative, commanding presence...
Female: (inaudible) female all-geared-up thing
GZ: I think you would (inaudible) .. I wouldn’t question your deployment
Female: hmmm


Doesn't this sound like GZ is assigning himself the necessity to bring (to have brought) TM into some kind of submission?? omg ....like - when he reached and confronted TM, based on nothing whatsoever, he expected TM to bow to his (imaginary) authority. what'd'ya's think????
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:42 pm

What I get out of this is GZ's clumsy attempt to flatter and bond with the officer. He may think that to compliment her on her "authoritative and commanding" presence would score him a few points. And he needs all the points he can get.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:54 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:What I get out of this is GZ's clumsy attempt to flatter and bond with the officer. He may think that to compliment her on her "authoritative and commanding" presence would score him a few points. And he needs all the points he can get.

What makes me LOL is how he tries to use a word like deployment and uses it incorrectly. She was probably thinking 'this guy's a real winner...'.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:00 pm

lol...that brings to mind....I once heard a dispatcher call for "extradition" equipment instead of "extrication" equipment.
I just shook my head and wondered about the inteligence level of the people charged with protecting us.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:10 pm

What makes me LOL is he's never ever going to work anywhere in the justice system, yet he's positioning himself here as if he'd ever be a commanding officer.
"if only to be a king again" dude, you never were and never will be more than a narrow minded self serving hot headed killer.



[quote="serenaz1"][quote="Chickenbutt"]What I get out of this is GZ's clumsy attempt to flatter and bond with the officer. He may think that to compliment her on her "authoritative and commanding" presence would score him a few points. And he needs all the points he can get.[/quote]

What makes me LOL is how he tries to use a word like deployment and uses it incorrectly. She was probably thinking 'this guy's a real winner...'. [/quote]

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:10 pm

I wonder why the burglary reports were removed from Sanford's site? http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf

Does anyone have a different link or maybe a downloaded copy?

I'm wondering about the burglary, which he starts his written report off with (WTF?!? report should be about your actions that night, not trying to justify them in the first paragraph!). Anyway, he says they tried to attack the girl. IIRC, the guys knocked/rang bell, she hid in upstairs bedroom & called for help. This is where I can't remember details, if she called PO, GZ or neighbor. Didn't they start up the stairs but then left? I don't recall any kind of confrontation between them, but might be confuzzled.

Also, I think I heard that 4 out of the 5 burglaries were 'not forced entry', so more like crimes of convenience, taking what's easy to grab, rather than armed robbery/home invasion types of things. After they caught one guy, there hadn't been any since, right?





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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:15 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:lol...that brings to mind....I once heard a dispatcher call for "extradition" equipment instead of "extrication" equipment.
I just shook my head and wondered about the inteligence level of the people charged with protecting us.

Very Happy That is funny, but could've got tongue twisted like I did once; talking to a woman (luckily!) on phone at work about needing an ergonomic keyboard for my carnal tupple syndrome.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:16 pm

Porky wrote:
Gizmo711 wrote:

Gizmo

Zimmern said that Travon was peeking into windows, which begs a different question. If Travon is peeking into windows, why does he call non emergency instead of 911>?


That really bothered me. Suspect of what?

I never heard that on the 911 calls either, he just says that he looks suspiscious or acting suspiscious, he never mentions that Trayvon was looking in windows. Which I do not believe for a minute. Trayvon did not have burglary tools on him, he couldn't do much with a can of ice tea or a bag of skittles.

Zimmerman is showing absolutely no remorse what so ever. He is not sorry for what he did, he's just pizzed that he has been charged. Zimmerman strikes me a a person who will never admit to being wrong no matter what.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:19 pm

snowbird wrote:
alabama52 wrote:What??? O'Mara states that George is very concerned for himself. O'Mara states that George is, also, concerned for the position Shellie put HERSELF in?????
George is a piece of work, huh? He is going to let Shellie take the all the blame for the mess she is in.
On his myspace didn't he state that someone else was in trouble but did rat him out. Then it seems part for the course he would let his wife take the fall.
Now I know what it is going to be his defense at bond hearing, it is that he was afraid that something would happen to his wife if he spoke up.


You could be right, I didn't think about that but that may very well be his excuse.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:22 pm

serenaz1 wrote:I wonder why the burglary reports were removed from Sanford's site? http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf

Does anyone have a different link or maybe a downloaded copy?

I'm wondering about the burglary, which he starts his written report off with (WTF?!? report should be about your actions that night, not trying to justify them in the first paragraph!). Anyway, he says they tried to attack the girl. IIRC, the guys knocked/rang bell, she hid in upstairs bedroom & called for help. This is where I can't remember details, if she called PO, GZ or neighbor. Didn't they start up the stairs but then left? I don't recall any kind of confrontation between them, but might be confuzzled.

Also, I think I heard that 4 out of the 5 burglaries were 'not forced entry', so more like crimes of convenience, taking what's easy to grab, rather than armed robbery/home invasion types of things. After they caught one guy, there hadn't been any since, right?






Yes, he was trying to rectify his actions of killing someone because of what happened at the complex prior to that night. But that can really backfire on him, that shows vigilanti mentality in the first degree. It show a depraved mind that is willing to take his anger out on anyone that comes near to resembling a perp. Which to me shows that Trayvon was picked out for being black. I hope the FBI takes over when this part is done.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:24 pm

Orders had to come down from above. And cops are big on following orders.
I think the SYG thing really makes it hard, someone who claims it is given a much bigger benefit of the doubt that when a cop fires his gun.
It's messed up, but the DA doesn't want cases that are really tough to prosecute.


ellejay wrote:--it's so obvious that serino doesn't buy any of george's ever-changing stories......and in fact wanted him arrested for manslaughter.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/18/nation/la-na-trayvon-martin-20120518

--snipped--

But the documents also show that Sanford, Fla., police investigators believed that Zimmerman had erred in the way he dealt with the young man. That led to their recommendation in March that Zimmerman be charged with negligent manslaughter — which the state attorney's office initially did not act on, setting off a wave of national protest and concern that racial issues had tainted the handling of the case.

Zimmerman not only reported Martin to police, he also followed him. A police dispatcher told him it wasn't a good idea. Investigators subsequently agreed.

"The encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was ultimately avoidable by Zimmerman, if Zimmerman had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement," they wrote in a March 13 capias document, which authorizes an arrest. "Or conversely if he had identified himself to Martin as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party's concern."

--so why the change in serino's tune--- just 3 days later?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-federal-review-justice-letter-20120402_1_chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event." Serino told the Sentinel March 16,"Everything I have is adding up to what he says."

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:27 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
Chickenbutt wrote:lol...that brings to mind....I once heard a dispatcher call for "extradition" equipment instead of "extrication" equipment.
I just shook my head and wondered about the inteligence level of the people charged with protecting us.

Very Happy That is funny, but could've got tongue twisted like I did once; talking to a woman (luckily!) on phone at work about needing an ergonomic keyboard for my carnal tupple syndrome.

I can top it all. I had to page my boss to the phone one day for a caller who told me he was calling from "Laybak & Wakit"...can you just imagine how I felt when I found out the caller was being funny, but I didn't realize it until after I said it over the loud speaker. The caller couldn't stop laughing and everyone in the place never let me live it down.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:35 pm

Gizmo711 wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:

Very Happy That is funny, but could've got tongue twisted like I did once; talking to a woman (luckily!) on phone at work about needing an ergonomic keyboard for my carnal tupple syndrome.

I can top it all. I had to page my boss to the phone one day for a caller who told me he was calling from "Laybak & Wakit"...can you just imagine how I felt when I found out the caller was being funny, but I didn't realize it until after I said it over the loud speaker. The caller couldn't stop laughing and everyone in the place never let me live it down.

Laughing Laughing Ok, yeah, that's for sure the winner!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:38 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Orders had to come down from above. And cops are big on following orders.
I think the SYG thing really makes it hard, someone who claims it is given a much bigger benefit of the doubt that when a cop fires his gun.
It's messed up, but the DA doesn't want cases that are really tough to prosecute.


ellejay wrote:--it's so obvious that serino doesn't buy any of george's ever-changing stories......and in fact wanted him arrested for manslaughter.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/may/18/nation/la-na-trayvon-martin-20120518

--snipped--



--so why the change in serino's tune--- just 3 days later?

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-trayvon-martin-federal-review-justice-letter-20120402_1_chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency


The interesting thing about this case is that based on the evidence that already existed, Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder.

Cops almost never get convicted for shooting and killing someone.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:59 pm

Chickenbutt wrote: What I get out of this is GZ's clumsy attempt to flatter and bond with the officer. He may think that to compliment her on her "authoritative and commanding" presence would score him a few points. And he needs all the points he can get.
Serenaz1 wrote: What makes me LOL is how he tries to use a word like deployment and uses it incorrectly. She was probably thinking 'this guy's a real winner...'.
WeeBonnie wrote:What makes me LOL is he's never ever going to work anywhere in the justice system, yet he's positioning himself here as if he'd ever be a commanding officer.
"if only to be a king again" dude, you never were and never will be more than a narrow minded self serving hot headed killer.


He was acting like one of the "big boys", he sounds totally remorseless.


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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by CherokeeNative on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:02 pm

The only way that GZ is going down for this murder is if the forensics show that GZ is lying about something...if there isn't a smoking gun, I am afraid GZ is going to walk. It will be a very sad day for me - like it was when little Caylee's murderer walked free.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:02 pm

Ales, you mixed up my quote with Serenaz...I have no problem with it. Just wanted to keep the record clear.
(Like none of us have ever mixed up quotes Shocked )
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:04 pm

Hi CN.....Have faith, there is lots more yet to come.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:07 pm

Chickenbutt wrote: Ales, you mixed up my quote with Serenaz...I have no problem with it. Just wanted to keep the record clear.
(Like none of us have ever mixed up quotes Shocked )

I'm sorry Chick, I corrected the quotes. Very Happy
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:08 pm

No problem Aless, We have all done it. Very Happy
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:17 pm

At this point, I'm wondering if it isnt a lot of little things that poke big holes in his story. Maybe they have him on video pulling a U turn to return to Twin Lakes instead of go back to Target. Maybe other people saw the flashlight? Maybe people saw him walk back to the T and dropped his keys.

We're not at a place where we could know of all the witnesses, are we? Couldn't there be more coming?

CherokeeNative wrote:The only way that GZ is going down for this murder is if the forensics show that GZ is lying about something...if there isn't a smoking gun, I am afraid GZ is going to walk. It will be a very sad day for me - like it was when little Caylee's murderer walked free.

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by CherokeeNative on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:31 pm

Well, I have to keep pumping myself up in this case - so, here's one. If Trayvon has punched GZ in the nose, causing GZ to fall, and Trayvon pounces on top of GZ and pounding GZ's head into the concrete, then puts BOTH hands over GZ's mouth and nose - why in the hell isn't there any DNA or blood on Trayvon's hands? And if after doing that, Trayvon slides his hand down the side of GZ's chest to go for the gun, why isn't there blood smeared on GZ's shirt off of Trayvon's hands?

And finally, all of the witnesses say the altercations were happening some 70 feet down from the T - yet GZ says it started at the T - it is at the T where Trayvon punches him and GZ goes down - how in the hell did he get 70 feet down from the T? I think GZ went down that walkway and confronted GZ 70 feet down where the witnesses saw the altercation.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by CherokeeNative on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:33 pm

I would like to start a list of all of the discrepancies - pointing out the discrepancies between GZ's different video statements and discrepancies between GZ's statements and the evidence that we know of. Anyone up for the challenge?
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:35 pm

Go for it CN...I think you need a secretary!
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by CherokeeNative on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:37 pm

Chickenbutt wrote:Go for it CN...I think you need a secretary!

I can't - I have too bad of a memory. LOL
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by angela_nw on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:41 pm

angela_nw wrote:
GZ: have you ever had to shoot anybody?
Female officer: no
GZ: well good for you
GZ: you’re probably stern enough to get the point ...
Female: what?
GZ: you’ve got that
Female: hum
GZ: authoritative, commanding presence...
Female: (inaudible) female all-geared-up thing
GZ: I think you would (inaudible) .. I wouldn’t question your deployment
Female: hmmm


I didn't get the feeling that he was flirting at all. But rather excusing/justifying his act.
Here is a definition of deployment: "- the distribution of forces in preparation for battle or work" -
definitely a suggestion there that he felt himself acting in the line of duty -- I believe this woman knows GZ, she asks him if he has gone to class that day and they discuss an earlier communication about the Neighborhood Watch - I think she was the subject of several emails that GZ had sent to Chief Lee regarding the NW event in which GZ had complimented her organizing, etc. GZ considers himself an "insider" imo and is speaking to her as what he regards as a colleague. imo
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:43 pm

CN..you start the list. I'm sure others will add to it.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by snowbird on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:44 pm

angela_nw wrote:Please check this out: video tape from 2/27 (called Zimmerman interview with CVSA Expert) at the very beginning after the first person leaves the room and GZ is left with the female officer (sorry do not have name) - this is what I got from listening:

GZ: have you ever had to shoot anybody?
Female officer: no
GZ: well good for you
GZ: you’re probably stern enough to get the point ...
Female: what?
GZ: you’ve got that
Female: hum
GZ: authoritative, commanding presence...
Female: (inaudible) female all-geared-up thing
GZ: I think you would (inaudible) .. I wouldn’t question your deployment
Female: hmmm


Doesn't this sound like GZ is assigning himself the necessity to bring (to have brought) TM into some kind of submission?? omg ....like - when he reached and confronted TM, based on nothing whatsoever, he expected TM to bow to his (imaginary) authority. what'd'ya's think????
I could be, if only she could understand what he was trying to say, she may have been able to keep the flow going in the conversation. Very Happy I do think he was trying to keep this kid detained. Either by showing his gun or putting his hands on him.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by snowbird on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:49 pm

CherokeeNative wrote:Well, I have to keep pumping myself up in this case - so, here's one. If Trayvon has punched GZ in the nose, causing GZ to fall, and Trayvon pounces on top of GZ and pounding GZ's head into the concrete, then puts BOTH hands over GZ's mouth and nose - why in the hell isn't there any DNA or blood on Trayvon's hands? And if after doing that, Trayvon slides his hand down the side of GZ's chest to go for the gun, why isn't there blood smeared on GZ's shirt off of Trayvon's hands?

And finally, all of the witnesses say the altercations were happening some 70 feet down from the T - yet GZ says it started at the T - it is at the T where Trayvon punches him and GZ goes down - how in the hell did he get 70 feet down from the T? I think GZ went down that walkway and confronted GZ 70 feet down where the witnesses saw the altercation.
Good point about the blood should have be on Martin hands and also there should have been more than one tiny little cut on his hands. Plus George did not have any defensive wound, I would think even if he did not have on his arms because of long sleeves he would have had some on his hands. After all he is fighting for his life according to him.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:56 pm

I started a list the other morning after OMara dumped all the evidence.
Maybe we could all add or correct it by repasting last edit so it's a group effort?
I'm not much of a secretary but I think it's a great idea!


CherokeeNative wrote:I would like to start a list of all of the discrepancies - pointing out the discrepancies between GZ's different video statements and discrepancies between GZ's statements and the evidence that we know of. Anyone up for the challenge?

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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:28 pm

snowbird wrote:
CherokeeNative wrote:Well, I have to keep pumping myself up in this case - so, here's one. If Trayvon has punched GZ in the nose, causing GZ to fall, and Trayvon pounces on top of GZ and pounding GZ's head into the concrete, then puts BOTH hands over GZ's mouth and nose - why in the hell isn't there any DNA or blood on Trayvon's hands? And if after doing that, Trayvon slides his hand down the side of GZ's chest to go for the gun, why isn't there blood smeared on GZ's shirt off of Trayvon's hands?

And finally, all of the witnesses say the altercations were happening some 70 feet down from the T - yet GZ says it started at the T - it is at the T where Trayvon punches him and GZ goes down - how in the hell did he get 70 feet down from the T? I think GZ went down that walkway and confronted GZ 70 feet down where the witnesses saw the altercation.
Good point about the blood should have be on Martin hands and also there should have been more than one tiny little cut on his hands. Plus George did not have any defensive wound, I would think even if he did not have on his arms because of long sleeves he would have had some on his hands. After all he is fighting for his life according to him.

I thought about this yesterday too and wondered if I'd missed something being found on T's hands. IIRC, there was a little on his sleeve cuffs, but it didn't say anything about under his nails, etc..
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by Chickenbutt on Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:54 pm

Must be dinnertime on the West Coast.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by ellejay on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:03 pm

serenaz1 wrote:I wonder why the burglary reports were removed from Sanford's site? http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/BurglaryReports.pdf

Does anyone have a different link or maybe a downloaded copy?

I'm wondering about the burglary, which he starts his written report off with (WTF?!? report should be about your actions that night, not trying to justify them in the first paragraph!). Anyway, he says they tried to attack the girl. IIRC, the guys knocked/rang bell, she hid in upstairs bedroom & called for help. This is where I can't remember details, if she called PO, GZ or neighbor. Didn't they start up the stairs but then left? I don't recall any kind of confrontation between them, but might be confuzzled.

Also, I think I heard that 4 out of the 5 burglaries were 'not forced entry', so more like crimes of convenience, taking what's easy to grab, rather than armed robbery/home invasion types of things. After they caught one guy, there hadn't been any since, right?


--angela corey's office had all of the sanford site links taken down early on when they took over the investigation.

--as far as george saying that the girl was attacked........that's just george , making it up as he goes along, as usual.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425
--snipped--

But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses towards certification as a registered nurse.

On August 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.

"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.

Police arrived just as the burglars - who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television - fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.
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Re: George Zimmerman / Trayvon Martin Case #4

Post by CherokeeNative on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:49 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
snowbird wrote:
Good point about the blood should have be on Martin hands and also there should have been more than one tiny little cut on his hands. Plus George did not have any defensive wound, I would think even if he did not have on his arms because of long sleeves he would have had some on his hands. After all he is fighting for his life according to him.

I was wondering about this yesterday too and wondered if I'd missed something being found on T's hands. IIRC, there was a little on his sleeve cuffs, but it didn't say anything about under his nails, etc..

I must admit that I start getting worried about GZ ever being held accountable for Trayvon's death. I start listening to the talking heads and forget the case authority that is in Trayvon's favor.

First, I don't believe GZ stayed on the sidewalk going east and west... he had to have veered down the sidewalk between the townhomes looking for Trayvon. Problem is, does the prosecution have anything to prove that. The lack of any injuries to Trayvon's hands clearly establishes that GZ was not getting the beating of his life like he portrays in his video statements; and the fact that GZ was capable of flipping Trayvon and mounting him once he shot him clearly shows that he was not so near unconsciousness from having his head supposedly beat on the concrete that he incapacitated or near death. So, none of it rings true to the extent that it warranted the killing of Trayvon.

I believe that the prosecution will prosecute the case as a whole - not in a vacuum as the defense would have us do by looking at who was the aggressor from the point that Trayvon supposedly punched GZ - but instead looking at GZ as the aggressor for following and then exiting his vehicle with a concealed weapon when he saw Trayvon run. If the prosecution does not have a smoking gun, this will have to be the theory of the case. That GZ was the aggressor and that he did not meet Trayvon's force with like force, but instead used a gun.

It is when I start getting nervous about this case that I have to remind myself that GZ instigated the encounter. Even though GZ claims that Trayvon was trying to wrestle GZ’s gun away from him, that still does not necessarily provide an absolute defense. GZ was the one who chose to arm himself while pursuing Trayvon, who was rightfully in the neighborhood and doing nothing wrong; GZ was the one who chose to exit his vehicle looking for the teen, even when he was told not to do so by police dispatch; GZ was the one who created a situation where, once a shoving match occurred between him and Trayvon, he could argue that the fact he was armed made an unarmed teen a potentially lethal threat that put GZ in fear of his life, because GZ knew he had a gun that the boy could theoretically steal. “A killing is not justifiable or excusable if the defendant brought about the necessity therefor through his own wrongful act or without being reasonably free from fault in provoking the difficulty in which the killing occurred.” Lovett v. State, 30 Fla. 142, 11 So. 550, 17 L. R. A. 705; Ballard v. State, 31 Fla. 266, 12 So. 865; Padgett v. State, 40 Fla. 451, 24 So. 145.

Even if Trayvon threw the first punch, the moment GZ pulled his gun, he became the aggressor. Regardless of who threw the first punch, GZ provoked the confrontation by, while armed with a gun, recklessly hunting down an innocent teen who was a guest in the neighborhood. GZ could have easily avoided any confrontation with Trayvon. GZ himself admits that the kid ran away from him when he first saw GZ, trying to escape. GZ did not have to go for a kill shot. Most importantly, if GZ had not pursued Trayvon, and if GZ had not brought a gun, thereby inserting the possibility of deadly force into the equation where previously there had been none, then Trayvon would be alive today, regardless of who shoved who first:

“A defendant may, as a reasonable man, have believed that he was in danger of losing his life, or of incurring great bodily harm, and yet the killing may not, under some circumstances, be justifiable or excusable.  One instance is where he has brought about the necessity without being reasonably free from fault.  Again, the circumstances of a case may at least make it a question for the jury whether a killing was not in pursuance of a previously formed design to kill, instead of having been the result of a mere purpose of self-defense, although at the time of the altercation the first overt act may have come from the person slain.”  Ballard v. State, 31 Fla. 266, 12 So. 865.

There, I feel all better. You are going down GZ.

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