Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:38 am

He said mugged?!?! Not only does he lie all the time but he tells different lies to deferent people. I'm glad he's an idiot.
Welcome Belle!

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Also, he did go into work the morning after the shooting to talk to H.R. He never returned. But he did tell a co-worker that he had been mugged. And he says "I got him. I killed him."

This is on pg 137

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:58 am

I have not read any of the documents yet, but I found this interesting from the Orlando newspaper. To me this guy is really scary.

FDLE agents found in his rental car a "cop killer" handgun, a Belgian-made semiautomatic pistol, capable of firing bullets at such high velocity that they can pierce body armor. He also had three magazines of ammunition.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:11 am

I think "reasonable" is going to be key for the prosecution.

snowbird wrote:I have not read any of the documents yet, but I found this interesting from the Orlando newspaper. To me this guy is really scary.

FDLE agents found in his rental car a "cop killer" handgun, a Belgian-made semiautomatic pistol, capable of firing bullets at such high velocity that they can pierce body armor. He also had three magazines of ammunition.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:36 am

Another thing that I think is interesting from O'Steen report is that George was transported in a cop car with his gun on while being transported.

Then they let him go to the bathroom with the gun and holster and once he was back then they took the gun from him.
I don't remember if there was blood found on the gun, but if not I would believe he cleaned his gun when in the bathroom, along with his hands and anything else he could clean.

I just can't wrap my mind that they would allow a person who shot someone in back of a police car while he had his gun and allowing him to go to the bathroom before any evidence was taken.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:17 am

snowbird wrote:I have not read any of the documents yet, but I found this interesting from the Orlando newspaper. To me this guy is really scary.

FDLE agents found in his rental car a "cop killer" handgun, a Belgian-made semiautomatic pistol, capable of firing bullets at such high velocity that they can pierce body armor. He also had three magazines of ammunition.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman

--he had his rental car stocked w/ everything he needed to make a run for it.

--items retrieved from the car when arrested april 12th:

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:22 am

Snowbird, I think this confusion is a problem of bad writing.. George holstered his gun before the police arrived at the scene on 2/26.. and it was removed by the police officer. GZ was heard to say, I have a gun, I have a gun... take my gun.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:38 am

WeeBonnie wrote:He said mugged?!?! Not only does he lie all the time but he tells different lies to deferent people. I'm glad he's an idiot.
Welcome Belle!

Dakota Bella wrote:...
Also, he did go into work the morning after the shooting to talk to H.R. He never returned. But he did tell a co-worker that he had been mugged. And he says "I got him. I killed him."

This is on pg 137

--137/138.

--he also changes up what trayvon allegedly said to him.

--he tells her :

--that he followed trayvon b/c it was late, raining and there had been a lot of break-ins.
( i personally don't consider 7 p.m. to be "late".)

--that trayvon said "you don't know who you're messing with" as he was 'kicking the crap out of him'.

--that when trayvon saw the gun he said "now you're going to die motherfuc*er", "now you fuc*ed up".

--she finds him to be so 'emotionally devastated' and lucky to have survived the "mugging" that she gives him a hug.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by Tamta on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:39 am

ellejay wrote:
snowbird wrote:I have not read any of the documents yet, but I found this interesting from the Orlando newspaper. To me this guy is really scary.

FDLE agents found in his rental car a "cop killer" handgun, a Belgian-made semiautomatic pistol, capable of firing bullets at such high velocity that they can pierce body armor. He also had three magazines of ammunition.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman

--he had his rental car stocked w/ everything he needed to make a run for it.

--items retrieved from the car when arrested april 12th:


Was George given official notice prior to his turning himself him that he could not leave town?

He was clearly hiding from the public but his prior actions do not seem to prove that he was hiding from the law.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:43 am

--serino's FBI interview page one was included w/ the docs, page 124--
http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf

--page 2 was missing,we did get it later:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99942204/Serino-s-FBI-Interview-2-Pges-1
--serino FBI interview



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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:57 am

sharona wrote:Snowbird, I think this confusion is a problem of bad writing.. George holstered his gun before the police arrived at the scene on 2/26.. and it was removed by the police officer. GZ was heard to say, I have a gun, I have a gun... take my gun.
The only problem with that I did not see any report where they removed his gun at the scene. The only mention of removing the gun was after he was at the station and he went to bathroom gun was removed and place in gun book. I hope that it was bad writing and I am sure this will be cleared up at trail. I really hope this was bad writing and this is not the order of events.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by Hinky Refugee on Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:58 am

sharona wrote:Snowbird, I think this confusion is a problem of bad writing.. George holstered his gun before the police arrived at the scene on 2/26.. and it was removed by the police officer. GZ was heard to say, I have a gun, I have a gun... take my gun.

Sharona please go to this link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

On page 23 paragraph 2/2 Officer Smith the officer who was at the scene with GZ....states in seemingly chronological order what he did to Zimmerman at police head quarters......AND he took a GUN from a holster from Gz's waist AND put it in a gunbox. ON THE night Trayvon was shot. So, what is being said INDICATES the gun was returned to GZ the same night he shot Trayvon. I wish I could cut and paste that paragraph...grrrrr lol.

The month or so later incident with Gz turning himself in and having firearm and ammunition is not what happened the night Trayvon was murdered. Two seperate incidents of Gz and his gun.


Last edited by Hinky Refugee on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : have not reread that part)
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:01 am

ellejay wrote:
snowbird wrote:I have not read any of the documents yet, but I found this interesting from the Orlando newspaper. To me this guy is really scary.

FDLE agents found in his rental car a "cop killer" handgun, a Belgian-made semiautomatic pistol, capable of firing bullets at such high velocity that they can pierce body armor. He also had three magazines of ammunition.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-12/news/os-george-zimmerman-evidence-release-20120712_1_trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-volunteer-george-zimmerman

--he had his rental car stocked w/ everything he needed to make a run for it.

--items retrieved from the car when arrested april 12th:

I agree, He was cooperating with LE, but if it didn't go his way, then I think he was planning to run. He was having trouble understanding why no one was believing his story, he was going to give it one last shot. IMO Plus the fact that he was keeping a passport and money in safe deposit box to me would seem like someone who is getting ready to run.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:04 am

Another thing I did note was that people who where not involved with seeing or hearing the shooting stated that the would see George patrolling the street. One even said he would drive around with his lights out.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:10 am

Hinky Refugee wrote:

Sharona please go to this link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

On page 23 paragraph 2/2 Officer Smith the officer who was at the scene with GZ....states in seemingly chronological order what he did to Zimmerman at police head quarters......AND he took a GUN from a holster from Gz's waist AND put it in a gunbox. ON THE night Trayvon was shot. So, what is being said INDICATES the gun was returned to GZ the same night he shot Trayvon. I wish I could cut and paste that paragraph...grrrrr lol.

The month or so later incident with Gz turning himself in and having firearm and ammunition is not what happened the night Trayvon was murdered. Two seperate incidents of Gz and his gun.

--there does seem to be confusion about when the gun was taken from george:

--page 23--officer smith indicates that it was at the station:



--page 10--sergeant mcCoy says she saw one on the front seat of officer smith's police car @ the scene:

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:15 am

Another person who lives there has seen George walking the neighborhood with a flash light. I have very little doubt that George use to patrol the neighborhood.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:16 am

--one thing we learned from the stmts is that witness #9 is not the ex-fiancee after all.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:23 am

snowbird wrote:Another person who lives there has seen George walking the neighborhood with a flash light. I have very little doubt that George use to patrol the neighborhood.

That seems to be a point of contention.. or perspective.. I thought that GZ was patrolling nightly.. but others say he walked his Rottweiler every evening and just kept an eye out. ... and evidently there were no other "active" participants in NW.

(strictly supposition) I think ALL the burglaries were tied to Emmanuel Burgess, who lived on Retreat View Circle, and his four teenaged friends.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:30 am

--page 77--stmt of george's friend.

--there had been speculation in the past that "george called daddy" that night/that "daddy" was @ SPD that night....and somehow had influence b/c he was a retired magistrate...

--we now know that was not the case---george called his friend mark, the air marshall, who went to the crime scene (says he didn't speak w/ officers or george) then went to SPD w/ shellie (they waited in the lobby until george was released) mark then accompanied george to an interview, was present @ the reenactment, and george lived w/ him for over a month while 'in hiding'..

--he was probably on the phone w/ mark in the 'bloody head' pic when we see him on a cellphone

--knowing now, according to mark, his longtime friend.. that he was estranged from his family prior to this , he wouldn't have been calling his father ( the father that never stood up for him while george was constantly getting beaten by his mother..)


Last edited by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by Hinky Refugee on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:30 am

ellejay wrote:
Hinky Refugee wrote:

Sharona please go to this link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/99916379/Documents-Given-to-the-Defendant-R-1

On page 23 paragraph 2/2 Officer Smith the officer who was at the scene with GZ....states in seemingly chronological order what he did to Zimmerman at police head quarters......AND he took a GUN from a holster from Gz's waist AND put it in a gunbox. ON THE night Trayvon was shot. So, what is being said INDICATES the gun was returned to GZ the same night he shot Trayvon. I wish I could cut and paste that paragraph...grrrrr lol.

The month or so later incident with Gz turning himself in and having firearm and ammunition is not what happened the night Trayvon was murdered. Two seperate incidents of Gz and his gun.

--there does seem to be confusion about when the gun was taken from george:

--page 23--officer smith indicates that it was at the station:



--page 10--sergeant mcCoy says she saw one on the front seat of officer smith's police car @ the scene:


Hugsss to Ellijay you are a diamond! As I posted yesterday, this is indicative of bad police work IMO. This gun had just murdered a young teen, therefore it was evidence....AND.....if Gz can reach with his nondominate hand....during a fight for his life....as he says......can he not manipulate his hands to this same gun while handcuffed to wipe off this gun? (I do not know just asking).....

I am like everyone else hoping this is a typo or something. I saw the video of Gz being half heartedly patted down outside HQ'er's...also read where the arriving officer took the gun from the holster at the scene of the crime....this all just blows my mind!


Last edited by Hinky Refugee on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:37 am

elle, I thought the same thing when I read the list of what was in the rental car, that could be why the Judge felt he was ready to run too. Wonder if he was still staying with that friend at this point and if so, how far of a drive it was. The stocked cooler is pretty weird unless it was a long drive to where he was hiding out.

There are two possibilities with the gun issue at the station; the O'Steen write-up is a summary of the officer's involvement, not necessarily in chronological order, and is referring to what happened with the gun at the scene. Or, at some point after Z was handcuffed in the back seat of the car, Smith cleared the gun of ammo, then put it back in the holster inside Z's waistband.

Thanks for the info on the gun that was in the rental car, pretty crazy it's one that can pierce body armor.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:40 am

serenaz1 wrote:elle, I thought the same thing when I read the list of what was in the rental car, that could be why the Judge felt he was ready to run too. Wonder if he was still staying with that friend at this point and if so, how far of a drive it was. The stocked cooler is pretty weird unless it was a long drive to where he was hiding out.

There are two possibilities with the gun issue at the station; the O'Steen write-up is a summary of the officer's involvement, not necessarily in chronological order, and is referring to what happened with the gun at the scene. Or, at some point after Z was handcuffed in the back seat of the car, Smith cleared the gun of ammo, then put it back in the holster inside Z's waistband.

Thanks for the info on the gun that was in the rental car, pretty crazy it's one that can pierce body armor.


I don't know diddly about guns, but I asked someone who does. George's 9 mm was loaded with 8 hollow points. The reason for hollow points is that they are unlikely to pass through the target and hit someone else.. Never mind that they tend to be lethal.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:41 am

ellejay wrote:--page 77--stmt of george's friend.

--there had been speculation in the past that "george called daddy" that night/that "daddy" was @ SPD that night....and somehow had influence b/c he was a retired magistrate...

--we now know that was not the case---george called his friend mark, the air marshall, who went to the crime scene (says he didn't speak w/ officers or george) then went to SPD w/ shellie (they waited in the lobby until george was released) mark then accompanied george to an interview, was present @ the reenactment, and george lived w/ him for over a month while 'in hiding'..

--he was probably on the phone w/ mark in the 'bloody head' pic when we see him on a cellphone

--knowing now, according to mark, his longtime friend.. that he was estranged from his family prior to this , he wouldn't have been calling his father ( the father that never stood up for him while george was constantly getting beaten by his mother..)
Why would the police allow Mark to be at the reenactment? Wasn't that like an interview with the police? Mark is not an attorney and I don't believe he never talked to police.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:46 am

sharona wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:elle, I thought the same thing when I read the list of what was in the rental car, that could be why the Judge felt he was ready to run too. Wonder if he was still staying with that friend at this point and if so, how far of a drive it was. The stocked cooler is pretty weird unless it was a long drive to where he was hiding out.

There are two possibilities with the gun issue at the station; the O'Steen write-up is a summary of the officer's involvement, not necessarily in chronological order, and is referring to what happened with the gun at the scene. Or, at some point after Z was handcuffed in the back seat of the car, Smith cleared the gun of ammo, then put it back in the holster inside Z's waistband.

Thanks for the info on the gun that was in the rental car, pretty crazy it's one that can pierce body armor.


I don't know diddly about guns, but I asked someone who does. George's 9 mm was loaded with 8 hollow points. The reason for hollow points is that they are unlikely to pass through the target and hit someone else.. Never mind that they tend to be lethal.

Yes, that's true about the hollow points, they come apart inside the target and do tons of damage.

The 'cop-killer' gun is a different animal, in that it's the velocity the gun uses, not just the type of ammo.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:46 am

snowbird wrote:
Why would the police allow Mark to be at the reenactment? Wasn't that like an interview with the police? Mark is not an attorney and I don't believe he never talked to police.

--robZ Sr was @ the reenactment/walk-through too.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:48 am

snowbird wrote:
ellejay wrote:--page 77--stmt of george's friend.

--there had been speculation in the past that "george called daddy" that night/that "daddy" was @ SPD that night....and somehow had influence b/c he was a retired magistrate...

--we now know that was not the case---george called his friend mark, the air marshall, who went to the crime scene (says he didn't speak w/ officers or george) then went to SPD w/ shellie (they waited in the lobby until george was released) mark then accompanied george to an interview, was present @ the reenactment, and george lived w/ him for over a month while 'in hiding'..

--he was probably on the phone w/ mark in the 'bloody head' pic when we see him on a cellphone

--knowing now, according to mark, his longtime friend.. that he was estranged from his family prior to this , he wouldn't have been calling his father ( the father that never stood up for him while george was constantly getting beaten by his mother..)
Why would the police allow Mark to be at the reenactment? Wasn't that like an interview with the police? Mark is not an attorney and I don't believe he never talked to police.

Well, the re enactment was voluntary so George had the right to have his friend there.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:51 am

I also find it interesting that a person who knows George talks about his bad temper and his rode rage. It is also interesting that this persons state that George told her that he had friends in VA that would take care of the problem if someone was disrespectful. That also coincides with his My Space account. When I read this it almost sounds like George was in a gang because he buddies would take care if someone gives him trouble.

Miss read it wrong about who was their at reenactment, but I still think this would be like an interview and don't know why someone else would be allowed.

I never heard of a police interview where they allow other people to be their even if he was cooperating. This was an investigation of a death. Still seems strange to me. This is a death investigation.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:54 am

snowbird wrote:
Why would the police allow Mark to be at the reenactment? Wasn't that like an interview with the police? Mark is not an attorney and I don't believe he never talked to police.

At this point, George wasn't under arrest, so I'm not sure what restrictions they could put on him. If the guy was just there as moral support and not interfering in the process, I don't know if they could say no?

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:57 am

serenaz1 wrote:elle, I thought the same thing when I read the list of what was in the rental car, that could be why the Judge felt he was ready to run too. Wonder if he was still staying with that friend at this point and if so, how far of a drive it was. The stocked cooler is pretty weird unless it was a long drive to where he was hiding out.

--mark says that they stayed w/ him "for 4-6 weeks, until he decided to leave the state".....( the bank records we've seen indicate that they were in maryland in early april ) he was arrested april 12th.

--ETA---the drive from cambridge MD to jacksonville is about 14 hours, so i guess that was why he had the stocked cooler w/ him ...

--mark must live fairly close by, once called he was at the crime scene, took george & shellie back to his house that night (well, early feb.27th a.m.) and george still made it into work / saw the doctor that morning.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:03 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
snowbird wrote:
Why would the police allow Mark to be at the reenactment? Wasn't that like an interview with the police? Mark is not an attorney and I don't believe he never talked to police.

At this point, George wasn't under arrest, so I'm not sure what restrictions they could put on him. If the guy was just there as moral support and not interfering in the process, I don't know if they could say no?


I think it was voluntary and informal since he had not been charged as you said.. There is really nothing wrong in a friend tagging along.

This case is a really tragic screw up.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:04 pm

snowbird wrote:I also find it interesting that a person who knows George talks about his bad temper and his rode rage. It is also interesting that this persons state that George told her that he had friends in VA that would take care of the problem if someone was disrespectful. That also coincides with his My Space account. When I read this it almost sounds like George was in a gang because he buddies would take care if someone gives him trouble.

Miss read it wrong about who was their at reenactment, but I still think this would be like an interview and don't know why someone else would be allowed.

I never heard of a police interview where they allow other people to be their even if he was cooperating. This was an investigation of a death. Still seems strange to me. This is a death investigation.

I think he was too, he even has a tattoo that is considered 'gang related', the 'smile now, cry later' masks. I recently posted an article about that being one type of tattoo that customs/immigration people look for on latinos who may have ties to gangs.

Trayvon had tattoos of his great-grandma, his nana & his mom's names...such a thug. smh
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:06 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
snowbird wrote:I also find it interesting that a person who knows George talks about his bad temper and his rode rage. It is also interesting that this persons state that George told her that he had friends in VA that would take care of the problem if someone was disrespectful. That also coincides with his My Space account. When I read this it almost sounds like George was in a gang because he buddies would take care if someone gives him trouble.

Miss read it wrong about who was their at reenactment, but I still think this would be like an interview and don't know why someone else would be allowed.

I never heard of a police interview where they allow other people to be their even if he was cooperating. This was an investigation of a death. Still seems strange to me. This is a death investigation.

I think he was too, he even has a tattoo that is considered 'gang related', the 'smile now, cry later' masks. I recently posted an article about that being one type of tattoo that customs/immigration people look for on latinos who may have ties to gangs.

Trayvon had tattoos of his great-grandma, his nana & his mom's names...such a thug. smh
Thanks for the info on the Tattoo, somehow I missed that post.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:10 pm

I have a question that someone may be able to answer. They are saying that the gun shoot was a contact shoot, so if this is a contact shoot shouldn't George have more gun residue on him? Since is jacket was water proof could he have washed off the gun shoot residual when he was allowed to go to the bathroom, before they took his jacket.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:11 pm

---some info on mark...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html

Air marshal took Zimmerman in when the going got rough


In the height of the national outrage over the shooting of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman hid out for over a month in nearby Lake Mary at the home of a federal law-enforcement agent — a former Seminole County Sheriff deputy who was pressured to quit after he was duped by a con artist and violated department policy.

He was the friend who taught Zimmerman how to shoot, and whose wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding. As lesser acquaintances granted television interview after television interview, U.S. Air Marshal Mark Osterman never showed his face, even as he offered shelter to a friend in need who at one point was one of the most controversial people in America.

---more@link---

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:15 pm


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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:19 pm

It would appear GZ took it upon himself whenever he happened to be out and about for other reasons- shopping, dog walking etc. From what I understand he was supposed to be getting volunteers and organizing patrols but he never bothered to.
Again - he wanted the power without any responsibilty or work.


snowbird wrote:Another thing I did note was that people who where not involved with seeing or hearing the shooting stated that the would see George patrolling the street. One even said he would drive around with his lights out.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:23 pm

ellejay wrote:---some info on mark...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/07/13/2893981/air-marshal-took-zimmerman-in.html

Air marshal took Zimmerman in when the going got rough


In the height of the national outrage over the shooting of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman hid out for over a month in nearby Lake Mary at the home of a federal law-enforcement agent — a former Seminole County Sheriff deputy who was pressured to quit after he was duped by a con artist and violated department policy.

He was the friend who taught Zimmerman how to shoot, and whose wife presided over Zimmerman’s wedding. As lesser acquaintances granted television interview after television interview, U.S. Air Marshal Mark Osterman never showed his face, even as he offered shelter to a friend in need who at one point was one of the most controversial people in America.

---more@link---

The article states that he was their at the walk thru with George and went with George for the third interview. I still find it strange for a homicide investigation and I don't believe he didn't talk with any of the cops.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by sharona on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:28 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:It would appear GZ took it upon himself whenever he happened to be out and about for other reasons- shopping, dog walking etc. From what I understand he was supposed to be getting volunteers and organizing patrols but he never bothered to.
Again - he wanted the power without any responsibilty or work.


snowbird wrote:Another thing I did note was that people who where not involved with seeing or hearing the shooting stated that the would see George patrolling the street. One even said he would drive around with his lights out.

A couple of my boys who live in different states support NW.. They don't carry and they don't 'patrol'.. they just keep and eye out and encourage other neighbors to do the same. Its really simple.. you observe and report.. and go home. If the perps get away.. so be it.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by serenaz1 on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:32 pm

ellejay wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:elle, I thought the same thing when I read the list of what was in the rental car, that could be why the Judge felt he was ready to run too. Wonder if he was still staying with that friend at this point and if so, how far of a drive it was. The stocked cooler is pretty weird unless it was a long drive to where he was hiding out.

--mark says that they stayed w/ him "for 4-6 weeks, until he decided to leave the state".....( the bank records we've seen indicate that they were in maryland in early april ) he was arrested april 12th.

--ETA---the drive from cambridge MD to jacksonville is about 14 hours, so i guess that was why he had the stocked cooler w/ him ...

--mark must live fairly close by, once called he was at the crime scene, took george & shellie back to his house that night (well, early feb.27th a.m.) and george still made it into work / saw the doctor that morning.


I don't know how you remember all the details, elle, you amaze me! I'd forgotten that he was in Maryland for awhile and that does make sense that the friend must have lived fairly close, thanks!
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:36 pm

--an article on the firing of mark.....( i wonder if he's wishing he'd never heard of georgeZ.)


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-08-18/news/9808170587_1_juan-diaz-osterman-diaz-romero#
Duped Deputies Appeal Their Firing

[Sheriff] Eslinger told the deputies in a memo:
"You displayed exceptionally poor judgement and the total absence of moral guidlines throughout this entire event".

"The combination of your greed and desire to guard a celebrity completely overrode your common sense and duty as a deputy Sheriff to avoid association with dishonest, criminal and immoral activities".
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:38 pm

serenaz1 wrote:

I don't know how you remember all the details, elle, you amaze me! I'd forgotten that he was in Maryland for awhile and that does make sense that the friend must have lived fairly close, thanks!

--the article we just had on mark in the miami herald says that he lives in lake mary----(it's about 5 minutes away from sanford.)
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:57 pm

snowbird wrote:I have a question that someone may be able to answer. They are saying that the gun shoot was a contact shoot, so if this is a contact shoot shouldn't George have more gun residue on him? Since is jacket was water proof could he have washed off the gun shoot residual when he was allowed to go to the bathroom, before they took his jacket.

http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf
--page 215

--FDLE requested that "trace" analysis be done on george's (socks, shoes, pants, belt, shirt, jacket......as well as trayvon's clothing.)

--although we've seen the results of the DNA found on the clothing----we have NOT yet seen these "trace" results.

--GSR is among the many things they look for in "trace"----it will be VERY interesting to see if/where there is GSR on george's clothes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trace_evidence
--Trace Evidence

--snipped--

Examples of typical trace evidence in criminal cases include fingerprints, glove prints, hairs, cosmetics, plant fibers, mineral fibers, synthetic fibers, glass, paint chips, soils, botanical materials, gunshot residue, explosives residue, and volatile hydrocarbons (arson evidence).
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:04 pm

ellejay wrote:--an article on the firing of mark.....( i wonder if he's wishing he'd never heard of georgeZ.)


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-08-18/news/9808170587_1_juan-diaz-osterman-diaz-romero#
Duped Deputies Appeal Their Firing

[Sheriff] Eslinger told the deputies in a memo:
"You displayed exceptionally poor judgement and the total absence of moral guidlines throughout this entire event".

"The combination of your greed and desire to guard a celebrity completely overrode your common sense and duty as a deputy Sheriff to avoid association with dishonest, criminal and immoral activities".
It wouldn't seem like he knew of George's criminal actives, but I really don't know if it would make a difference to him. He also seems not to be able to tell the truth.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:13 pm

Oh well yeah- support is different from creating and taking a leadership role. He was supposed to be organizing- I'm just guessing since nothing really been said about his recruits that he just wanted some greater "authority" to do what he'd been doing all along and nothing more. If he really cared he'd try to get others help, right?
But like snitching at work, it appears he wanted official approval to screw around with peoples lives.

sharona wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:It would appear GZ took it upon himself whenever he happened to be out and about for other reasons- shopping, dog walking etc. From what I understand he was supposed to be getting volunteers and organizing patrols but he never bothered to.
Again - he wanted the power without any responsibilty or work.



A couple of my boys who live in different states support NW.. They don't carry and they don't 'patrol'.. they just keep and eye out and encourage other neighbors to do the same. Its really simple.. you observe and report.. and go home. If the perps get away.. so be it.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:15 pm

ellejay wrote:
snowbird wrote:I have a question that someone may be able to answer. They are saying that the gun shoot was a contact shoot, so if this is a contact shoot shouldn't George have more gun residue on him? Since is jacket was water proof could he have washed off the gun shoot residual when he was allowed to go to the bathroom, before they took his jacket.

http://www.clickorlando.com/blob/view/-/15490330/data/1/-/kligxm/-/Zimmerman-documents.pdf
--page 215

--FDLE requested that "trace" analysis be done on george's (socks, shoes, pants, belt, shirt, jacket......as well as trayvon's clothing.)

--although we've seen the results of the DNA found on the clothing----we have NOT yet seen these "trace" results.

--GSR is among the many things they look for in "trace"----it will be VERY interesting to see if/where there is GSR on george's clothes!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trace_evidence
--Trace Evidence

--snipped--

Examples of typical trace evidence in criminal cases include fingerprints, glove prints, hairs, cosmetics, plant fibers, mineral fibers, synthetic fibers, glass, paint chips, soils, botanical materials, gunshot residue, explosives residue, and volatile hydrocarbons (arson evidence).
It won't let me copy or past but the FDLE lab report states that the jacket and shirt was processed for gun shot residual. One particle of lead on the right back sleeve of jacket, non found on shirt. So if it was close contact why would there not be more lead particles unless he washed off jacket when in restroom. It states no other residual was found on jacket or shirt.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by WeeBonnie on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:16 pm

I bet they both worked the party circuit together- illegally.
He's probably just another charachter witness GZ can't use, LOL.
Came along to help GZ remember his story.



snowbird wrote:
ellejay wrote:--an article on the firing of mark.....( i wonder if he's wishing he'd never heard of georgeZ.)


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-08-18/news/9808170587_1_juan-diaz-osterman-diaz-romero#
Duped Deputies Appeal Their Firing

[Sheriff] Eslinger told the deputies in a memo:
"You displayed exceptionally poor judgement and the total absence of moral guidlines throughout this entire event".

"The combination of your greed and desire to guard a celebrity completely overrode your common sense and duty as a deputy Sheriff to avoid association with dishonest, criminal and immoral activities".
It wouldn't seem like he knew of George's criminal actives, but I really don't know if it would make a difference to him. He also seems not to be able to tell the truth.

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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:19 pm

--page 78

--mark tells it as told to him by george:

--"martin and zimmerman struggled which resulted in martin gaining a position on top of zimmerman, sitting on zimmerman in the "mounted" position, martin's butt on zimmerman's stomach w/ martin's knees on the ground next to zimmerman's ribs."

--(like this george?)..b/c it makes zero sense that you're going to be able to get at your "firearm"...



--"martin then told zimmerman to "shut the fu*k up" and martin placed one of his hands over zimmerman's nose and one over z's mouth. martin then observed or felt the handgun on z's side, took his other hand away from z's nose and reached for the gun stating "you're gonna die now motherfuc*er". "

--"zimmerman slapped martin's hand away from the handgun, pulled the handgun, rotated the weapon, and fired one round."

--george shows how he---george-the-contortionist-- did manage to get out his gun...

...hmmm...i don't believe you george.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by ellejay on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:26 pm

---and for the "is shellie close to her parents?" file...

http://twitter.com/roblesherald
Frances Robles‏@RoblesHerald

When I went to Shellie's parents' house back in March, they denied knowing her.
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GSR ... FBI document

Post by Labadorable on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:30 pm

Found this re: GSR & what GZ could have done in bathroom ....

COLLECTING EVIDENCE

Gunshot primer residue is much like chalk on the hands of a
school teacher using a blackboard. The minute the teacher walks
away from the board, chalk loss starts through mechanical
actions, such as rubbing the hands together, putting them in
pockets, rubbing them against clothing, or handling objects.
Therefore, officers are instructed to collect GSR evidence
immediately upon making an arrest. Generally, there is little
hope of finding adequate quantities of barium and antimony to
associate an individual with a weapon after 3 hours of normal
hand activities. And, washing the hands removes essentially all
GSR deposits.

Unfortunately, ideal GSR collection procedures are at odds with the fundamental precept of immediately handcuffing arrestees hands behind their backs. This cuffing procedure can greatly decrease the amount of GSR because the outer webs of the hands are pressed against the body. Any improper procedures
should be addressed by arresting officers and crime scene
personnel since they could lead to elimination or contamination
of this potentially valuable evidence.


Source: Gunshot Primer Residue: The Invisible Clue
Journal: FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin Volume:60 Issue:6 Dated:(June 1991) Pages:19-22
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=130307

here's a text link of document: http://www.textfiles.com/law/gunshot.txt
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by snowbird on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:34 pm

Labadorable wrote:Found this re: GSR & what GZ could have done in bathroom ....

COLLECTING EVIDENCE

Gunshot primer residue is much like chalk on the hands of a
school teacher using a blackboard. The minute the teacher walks
away from the board, chalk loss starts through mechanical
actions, such as rubbing the hands together, putting them in
pockets, rubbing them against clothing, or handling objects.
Therefore, officers are instructed to collect GSR evidence
immediately upon making an arrest. Generally, there is little
hope of finding adequate quantities of barium and antimony to
associate an individual with a weapon after 3 hours of normal
hand activities. And, washing the hands removes essentially all
GSR deposits.

Unfortunately, ideal GSR collection procedures are at odds with the fundamental precept of immediately handcuffing arrestees hands behind their backs. This cuffing procedure can greatly decrease the amount of GSR because the outer webs of the hands are pressed against the body. Any improper procedures
should be addressed by arresting officers and crime scene
personnel since they could lead to elimination or contamination
of this potentially valuable evidence.


Source: Gunshot Primer Residue: The Invisible Clue
Journal: FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin Volume:60 Issue:6 Dated:(June 1991) Pages:19-22
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=130307

here's a text link of document: http://www.textfiles.com/law/gunshot.txt
Thank you for that because I really thought it was odd they were calling this a contact shooting but he had only a trace on the back part of sleeve on his red jacket. I guess they should not have let him go to the bathroom before they collected evidence.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

Post by Labadorable on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:40 pm

@Snowbird BINGO on your comment. I believe GZ knew this & as this document states GSR is like "chalk" ... the GSR evidence on GZ was compromised by not collecting at the scene. And further chances for compromises when GZ went to the little boy's room.

Snowbird
I guess they should not have let him go to the bathroom before they collected evidence.
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Re: Document Dump 7-12-2012 -- Zimmerman/Martin Case

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