George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Freckles on Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:35 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:The arms were being moved about by GZ. GZ came up with a crazy story that he believed that lifeless body was still alive to cover his tracks. So- what were the tracks?
I think he may have tried to get some DNA on Trayvon's hands, and/ or Trayvon's prints on George's gun.
Because he needed a story.




One of the witnesses that was interviewed by the media stated that he/she saw Zimmerman's hands reaching under Trayvon's body. The witnesses said "I don't know what he was doing, it seemed like he was looking for something". I am trying to find the article where I read that information.
BBM
I, too, read that. I presumed GZ was panicking and was hoping to find some weapon on Trayvon to use as an alibi. Not sure but it might be in the first doc dump on older thread?
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Gizmo711 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:29 am

[quote="Freckles"]
Alessandra_Deux wrote:

One of the witnesses that was interviewed by the media stated that he/she saw Zimmerman's hands reaching under Trayvon's body. The witnesses said "I don't know what he was doing, it seemed like he was looking for something". I am trying to find the article where I read that information.
BBM
I, too, read that. I presumed GZ was panicking and was hoping to find some weapon on Trayvon to use as an alibi. Not sure but it might be in the first doc dump on older thread?[/quote]

And when Zimmerman straddled Trayvon, he already knew Trayvon was dead or he would never have had the guts to get on top of him. The big hurdle that Zimmerman is going to have are those screams. They could not have been Zimmerman or they would not have stopped when the gun fired. Zimmerman cannot have it both ways. Anyone that would be screaming like that would not stop unless he knew for sure that the person he shot was infact dead. Yet he states that he didn't find out Trayvon was dead until one hour after being at the police dept. What a crock.

I see that O'Mara is now saying no more interviews, he knows his client is a #1 azzhole and will say the worng thing. I'm sure that Zimmerman will NOT take the stand at the trial, therefore the SYG law will not be used. It will probably be a self defense only .

Zimmerman will have a hard time proving anything with all his lies.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by WeeBonnie on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:46 am

Deb! Long time no see- thank you!
Is this the color pic- all bloody that was sold to ABC news?
So thet were not part of the doc dump?

So confusing! I saw on JQ yesterday that the famous black and white pic where he appears to have a swollen nose shows marks as if he has tape across his kiss, widening it. That's going to require some explaining!!

Hope all is well with you Deb!

DebFrmHell wrote:
Tamta wrote:

The first officer to the scene, T. Smith, who secures Zimmerman, observes a black male wearing a grey hooded sweatshirt laying face down in the grass.

Officer Ayala is the second officer to the scene who makes the observation regarding the hands being underneath the body.

Ayala is also the first person to make contact with Trayvon.

Officer Raimundo who attempts CPR on Trayvon only notes that Trayvon is face down with head pointing north.

The other officers at the scene or SFD do not report the location of Trayvon's hands.

No one took a photo of Trayvon's body upon arrival, that is there is not one publicly released to date.

Contemporaneous witnesses to the shooting observe Travyon's arms being out.

W13 took pictures of before LE arrived. GZ's head, TM's body, and a flashlight.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by ChicagoChat on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:51 am

I'm sorry to jump in and ask a question that has already been discussed but could you all please let me know if there is any documented proof that the black tactical flashlight found near Martin's body belonged to George Zimmerman? I have been searching for 1 1/2 hours now...did I miss something? I know that it was there before Officers arrive because Witness 13 states so during the 3/20/12 interview at 11.40. Is there any chance that it was Travyons?
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:02 pm

Guess the State is releasing some witness names this morning;

@JeffWeinerOS:

Breaking: State names several unnamed #GeorgeZimmerman witnesses. These were people previously IDed in media reports. #TrayvonMartin

#GeorgeZimmerman witnesses: Mary Cutcher (neighbor who went on CNN) is Witness 5, Brandy Green (Tracy Martin's girlfriend) is W7.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:07 pm

ChicagoChat wrote:I'm sorry to jump in and ask a question that has already been discussed but could you all please let me know if there is any documented proof that the black tactical flashlight found near Martin's body belonged to George Zimmerman? I have been searching for 1 1/2 hours now...did I miss something? I know that it was there before Officers arrive because Witness 13 states so during the 3/20/12 interview at 11.40. Is there any chance that it was Travyons?


Zimmerman says it is his in his police interviews.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by ChicagoChat on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:08 pm

Thank you Tamta...I will go through them again. I know he said the small flashlight was his, but I didn't catch when he was talking about the large one. Thanks!!
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:10 pm

ChicagoChat wrote:Thank you Tamta...I will go through them again. I know he said the small flashlight was his, but I didn't catch when he was talking about the large one. Thanks!!

Welcome!

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:15 pm

@JeffWeinerOS:

#GeorgeZimmerman witnesses named today: W4 is Cheryl Brown (nbcnews.to/OmSTtY), W14 is her son, W16 is Cutcher's roommate, Selma.

@JeffWeinerOS:

State released these witness names because they were all people who have voluntarily given interviews. Judge ruled on their release 6/12.


Last edited by serenaz1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:17 pm

@Daralene Jones

Shellie Zimmerman, wife of #GeorgeZimmerman, not expected to appear for arraignment on perjury charges next Tuesday, court officials say
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:28 pm

Here's the Orlando Sentinel article on the release of witness names:

"Prosecutors in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder case on Tuesday released the names of six "secret" witnesses, all of them neighbors who lived near where Trayvon Martin was fatally shot.

They include a 13-year-old boy who told police that moments before he heard a gunshot, he saw a man with a red jacket on the ground.

That's important because there's been a dispute about which person was on top during a fight that turned into a wrestling match between Zimmerman, 28, and Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old from Miami Gardens."

[more at link]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-scret-witness-names-20120725,0,2271469.story


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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by ecossie possie on Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:52 pm

The large tactical flashlight belonged to GZ he said it was his an not working..A lots been made off the fact that LE said it worked when they turned it on..Could just be a low battery an wouldnt work for GZ.But after sitting for a while it worked..
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by DebFrmHell on Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:57 pm

WeeBonnie wrote:Deb! Long time no see- thank you!
Is this the color pic- all bloody that was sold to ABC news?
So thet were not part of the doc dump?

So confusing! I saw on JQ yesterday that the famous black and white pic where he appears to have a swollen nose shows marks as if he has tape across his kiss, widening it. That's going to require some explaining!!

Hope all is well with you Deb!

DebFrmHell wrote:

W13 took pictures of before LE arrived. GZ's head, TM's body, and a flashlight.

Hello, Wee B! Good to see you, too.

The pictures of TM are thankfully under seal. That includes the ones taken at the crime scene, the autopsy photos and the one taken by W13. It is curious to me that he took a picture of the flashlight though. I have to go back and see what tests were run on it.



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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:03 pm

ecossie possie wrote:The large tactical flashlight belonged to GZ he said it was his an not working..A lots been made off the fact that LE said it worked when they turned it on..Could just be a low battery an wouldnt work for GZ.But after sitting for a while it worked..

I really do not know what to make of that flashlight deal, other than it sounds like he is tapping it on something after he seems to have stopped moving when he loses sight of Trayvon in the NEN call.

I thought blood was discovered on it, but I have not seen any identification of that in discovery.

As for it working/not working- my 3 year old can seem to get a flashlight working in seconds when my full disassemble-reassemble efforts prove worthless.

??????

Is it relevant to State's theory?


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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by serenaz1 on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:14 pm

Tamta wrote:
ecossie possie wrote:The large tactical flashlight belonged to GZ he said it was his an not working..A lots been made off the fact that LE said it worked when they turned it on..Could just be a low battery an wouldnt work for GZ.But after sitting for a while it worked..

I really do not know what to make of that flashlight deal, other than it sounds like he is tapping it on something after he seems to have stopped moving when he loses sight of Trayvon in the NEN call.

I thought blood was discovered on it, but I have not seen any identification of that in discovery.

As for it working/not working- my 3 year old can seem to get a flashlight working in seconds when my full disassemble-reassemble efforts prove worthless.

??????

Is it relevant to State's theory?



Some folks had guessed that the tapping sound heard in the NEN call (right after he says his last name) was him tapping on the flashlight. I don't know if Z has claimed he did that or not tho.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:30 pm

serenaz1 wrote:
Tamta wrote:

I really do not know what to make of that flashlight deal, other than it sounds like he is tapping it on something after he seems to have stopped moving when he loses sight of Trayvon in the NEN call.

I thought blood was discovered on it, but I have not seen any identification of that in discovery.

As for it working/not working- my 3 year old can seem to get a flashlight working in seconds when my full disassemble-reassemble efforts prove worthless.

??????

Is it relevant to State's theory?



Some folks had guessed that the tapping sound heard in the NEN call (right after he says his last name) was him tapping on the flashlight. I don't know if Z has claimed he did that or not tho.

I think the tapping of the flashlight is opinion of listeners to the call.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:38 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:Deb! Long time no see- thank you!
Is this the color pic- all bloody that was sold to ABC news?
So thet were not part of the doc dump?

So confusing! I saw on JQ yesterday that the famous black and white pic where he appears to have a swollen nose shows marks as if he has tape across his kiss, widening it. That's going to require some explaining!!

Hope all is well with you Deb!


Hello, Wee B! Good to see you, too.

The pictures of TM are thankfully under seal. That includes the ones taken at the crime scene, the autopsy photos and the one taken by W13. It is curious to me that he took a picture of the flashlight though. I have to go back and see what tests were run on it.




The photo of Trayvon was received by Serino, along with that of Zimmerman's injuries by the email 3/21 at 439?
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Hinky Refugee on Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:56 pm

:duckies:


Last edited by Hinky Refugee on Sat Jul 28, 2012 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to delete it)
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:25 pm

Hinky Refugee wrote:I posted over at Leatherman's blog. Too tired to repost here. He had such a great article up with 13 questions and I bit my fingers til I had to post lol. But it covers the flashlight. Not sure I can post a link, but am too tired to repost here tonight...long day Sad

Interesting.
As to his theory of the gun being out that far in advance,
Is he familiar with the 911 calls and witness statements?

Has he ever seen someone(s) engaged in a fight street style?
The arms get pinned as soon as possible once the subdominant individual is in contact with the ground. Once you hit the ground, you are screwed.
The witnesses consistently put GZ on the bottom.


It seems even the State has acknowledged that the physical confrontation preceded the shooting and maybe they would even go as far as conceding that Trayvon threw the first punch, as their SPC seems based more on FL stalking statute per DeesDees statements, and that they carefully avoid reference to who began the physical altercation as the witness statements that Serino cites in his report.
Also from a circumstantial perspective, having the keys, flashlight and weapon out does not seem plausible.





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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:12 pm

Tamta wrote:
Hinky Refugee wrote:I posted over at Leatherman's blog. Too tired to repost here. He had such a great article up with 13 questions and I bit my fingers til I had to post lol. But it covers the flashlight. Not sure I can post a link, but am too tired to repost here tonight...long day Sad



Interesting.
As to his theory of the gun being out that far in advance,
Is he familiar with the 911 calls and witness statements?

Has he ever seen someone(s) engaged in a fight street style?
The arms get pinned as soon as possible once the subdominant individual is in contact with the ground. Once you hit the ground, you are screwed.
The witnesses consistently put GZ on the bottom.


It seems even the State has acknowledged that the physical confrontation preceded the shooting and maybe they would even go as far as conceding that Trayvon threw the first punch, as their SPC seems based more on FL stalking statute per DeesDees statements, and that they carefully avoid reference to who began the physical altercation as the witness statements that Serino cites in his report.
Also from a circumstantial perspective, having the keys, flashlight and weapon out does not seem plausible.






"The arms get pinned as soon as possible once the subdominant individual is in contact with the ground. Once you hit the ground, you are screwed."

Could you explain this further? What do you mean by the arms get pinned as soon as possible once the dominant individual is in contact with the ground?

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:20 pm

Frederick Leatherman Law Blog

Zimmerman: 13 Questions Searching for an Answer

July 25, 2012

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:34 pm

Yeah. I read the article Allesandra but wanted to know how Tamtra to explain the fight stuff

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:59 pm

Porky, I posted the link for everyone here to be able to read the article without having to search for it. That's all.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:32 pm

[quote="Alessandra_Deux"]Porky, I posted the link for everyone here to be able to read the article without having to search for it. That's all.[/quote


Thanks so much for that. I figured it out after I hit send . oops!

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:33 pm

Porky wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:Porky, I posted the link for everyone here to be able to read the article without having to search for it. That's all.


Thanks so much for that. I figured it out after I hit send . oops!

No problem. Very Happy


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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by ellejay on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:34 pm

Tamta wrote:
serenaz1 wrote:

Some folks had guessed that the tapping sound heard in the NEN call (right after he says his last name) was him tapping on the flashlight. I don't know if Z has claimed he did that or not tho.

I think the tapping of the flashlight is opinion of listeners to the call.

--george talks about "tapping" his flashlight in the interview where serino/singleton go over his call to non-emergency w/ him.


http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-audio-interview-with-sanford-pd-on-feb/vcQzm/
--Cserino/Dsingleton go over the 911 call w/ george
--@ approx 10:00

DS: You told me the only, the reason you got out of your car was to get an address.
GZ: Yes, right.
DS: But you decided to get the address…fresh in the second after you say, “Oh, shit, he’s running.” And then it sounds like you’re running too.
CS: Cause it was fast walking maybe?
GZ: No, it was just windy.
CS: It was? Okay. [continues playing call] Where you at now?
GZ: On Retreat View Circle, I think.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] What are you doing right now?
GZ: Walking back to my car.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, if I time this portion, this is important, okay? I almost gotta reconstruct this. [replays portion of call] When do you start walking back to your car? Time here. You’re going towards Retreat View, right?
GZ: Yeah.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, where you at now?
GZ: I think on Retreat View Circle.
CS: Okay. Is that 2:41? Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, you’re walking back to your car?
GZ: Yes, sir, [continues playing call] I’m thumping the damn flashlight.
DS: How long is that?
CS: It’s 84 seconds. From the point where you were walking back to your car from Retreat View to Twin Tree basically.
DS: It’s what, about 30 feet?
CS: That’s a minute and…20 seconds. Did you stop at the “T”?
GZ: No, I walked through. I stopped on Retreat View Circle.
CS: That’s where you were standing?
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: Okay. But you didn’t get back to your car?
GZ: No, sir.
CS: Why not?
GZ: I was…
CS: You’re in the rain, you’re getting wet, you’re on the phone.
GZ: Because I was waiting, I, the, I had light there…
CS: So…
GZ: …where I was at and I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn’t want to walk back through without light.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Freckles on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:05 am

ChicagoChat wrote:Thank you Tamta...I will go through them again. I know he said the small flashlight was his, but I didn't catch when he was talking about the large one. Thanks!!
IRC, only GZ' prints were found on the flashlights. Let me reword that: Trayvon's prints were not located there.

It may be in Doc Dump one.


Last edited by Freckles on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Big oops!)
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:25 am

George Zimmerman case: Witnesses furious

Posted: Jul 25, 2012 9:11 PM CDT Updated: Jul 25, 2012 9:12 PM CDT By Valerie Boey, Reporter

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35 ORLANDO) - Judge Kenneth Lester ordered the names and addresses of 6 witnesses released in the George Zimmerman case, because they have already been interviewed by the media. They all live in the neighborhood where the shooting took place.

It's been five months since George Zimmerman shot and killed 17 year old Trayvon Martin off of Retreat View Circle. Neighbor Shirley Saenz remembers the night clearly, "I saw his body and the whole chaos around the street." Shirley's mother Selma Mora and roommate Mary Cutcher held a news conference about what they witnessed. Back then Cutcher said, "I feel it was not self defense."

Read more:

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/story/19115782/george-zimmerman-case-witnesses-furious
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:40 am

Porky wrote:Yeah. I read the article Allesandra but wanted to know how Tamtra to explain the fight stuff

Hi Porky.

I am posting two videos of more ghetto style street fighting, the only style I have personally observed!

These guys are able to subdue and maintain dominance over their victims without physically pinning them down.

These videos give a good sense of how explosive they can be, what kind of ground they can cover, and just how anything goes, especially the second one, those guys are hitting his head in a variety of places- they are not necessarily face to face duking it out.

On the street I have seen kids in my old barrio, in a one on one hand to hand fight, get on top of the other if they want to contain the beating, straddle across the chest and use their knees to pin the arms (usually around elbow/upper extremity) of the one they are beating onto the pavement and proceed to beat the *($# out of the face. All the one on the bottom can do is try to turn their head to receive less of a beating, sometimes they are able to rotate or wiggle their torso to one side. I do not think we can post videos of minors, so I am not going to comb the net looking for one to post but I hope my descriptive image is clear.


-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7635407743947442138

-http://www.violentce.com/Video/Guy+Vs+Guy
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Tamta on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:46 am

ellejay wrote:
Tamta wrote:

I think the tapping of the flashlight is opinion of listeners to the call.

--george talks about "tapping" his flashlight in the interview where serino/singleton go over his call to non-emergency w/ him.


http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-audio-interview-with-sanford-pd-on-feb/vcQzm/
--Cserino/Dsingleton go over the 911 call w/ george
--@ approx 10:00

DS: You told me the only, the reason you got out of your car was to get an address.
GZ: Yes, right.
DS: But you decided to get the address…fresh in the second after you say, “Oh, shit, he’s running.” And then it sounds like you’re running too.
CS: Cause it was fast walking maybe?
GZ: No, it was just windy.
CS: It was? Okay. [continues playing call] Where you at now?
GZ: On Retreat View Circle, I think.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] What are you doing right now?
GZ: Walking back to my car.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, if I time this portion, this is important, okay? I almost gotta reconstruct this. [replays portion of call] When do you start walking back to your car? Time here. You’re going towards Retreat View, right?
GZ: Yeah.
CS: Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, where you at now?
GZ: I think on Retreat View Circle.
CS: Okay. Is that 2:41? Okay. [continues playing call] Okay, you’re walking back to your car?
GZ: Yes, sir, [continues playing call] I’m thumping the damn flashlight.
DS: How long is that?
CS: It’s 84 seconds. From the point where you were walking back to your car from Retreat View to Twin Tree basically.
DS: It’s what, about 30 feet?
CS: That’s a minute and…20 seconds. Did you stop at the “T”?
GZ: No, I walked through. I stopped on Retreat View Circle.
CS: That’s where you were standing?
GZ: Yes, sir.
CS: Okay. But you didn’t get back to your car?
GZ: No, sir.
CS: Why not?
GZ: I was…
CS: You’re in the rain, you’re getting wet, you’re on the phone.
GZ: Because I was waiting, I, the, I had light there…
CS: So…
GZ: …where I was at and I was trying to hit my flashlight. I didn’t want to walk back through without light.

Thank you!
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:18 am

Tamta wrote:
Porky wrote:Yeah. I read the article Allesandra but wanted to know how Tamtra to explain the fight stuff

Hi Porky.

I am posting two videos of more ghetto style street fighting, the only style I have personally observed!

These guys are able to subdue and maintain dominance over their victims without physically pinning them down.

These videos give a good sense of how explosive they can be, what kind of ground they can cover, and just how anything goes, especially the second one, those guys are hitting his head in a variety of places- they are not necessarily face to face duking it out.

On the street I have seen kids in my old barrio, in a one on one hand to hand fight, get on top of the other if they want to contain the beating, straddle across the chest and use their knees to pin the arms (usually around elbow/upper extremity) of the one they are beating onto the pavement and proceed to beat the *($# out of the face. All the one on the bottom can do is try to turn their head to receive less of a beating, sometimes they are able to rotate or wiggle their torso to one side. I do not think we can post videos of minors, so I am not going to comb the net looking for one to post but I hope my descriptive image is clear.


-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7635407743947442138

-http://www.violentce.com/Video/Guy+Vs+Guy

Ok but those videos make no sense because there is nothing that suggests that Travon knew how to fight like that. Why did you assume that he did? Video one depicts thugs fighting, which is very inconsistent with who Travon was. Finally, statistically speaking, Zimmerman had an equal probability of having some type of fight training. In fact, his pursuit of law enforcement training along with his obsession of the NW watch lends itself to Zimmerman having the higher likely hood of having obtaining fight training of some kind.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by WeeBonnie on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:59 am

What does this have to do with Trayvon?
I'm not seeing any connection.

Tamta wrote:
Porky wrote:Yeah. I read the article Allesandra but wanted to know how Tamtra to explain the fight stuff

Hi Porky.

I am posting two videos of more ghetto style street fighting, the only style I have personally observed!

These guys are able to subdue and maintain dominance over their victims without physically pinning them down.

These videos give a good sense of how explosive they can be, what kind of ground they can cover, and just how anything goes, especially the second one, those guys are hitting his head in a variety of places- they are not necessarily face to face duking it out.

On the street I have seen kids in my old barrio, in a one on one hand to hand fight, get on top of the other if they want to contain the beating, straddle across the chest and use their knees to pin the arms (usually around elbow/upper extremity) of the one they are beating onto the pavement and proceed to beat the *($# out of the face. All the one on the bottom can do is try to turn their head to receive less of a beating, sometimes they are able to rotate or wiggle their torso to one side. I do not think we can post videos of minors, so I am not going to comb the net looking for one to post but I hope my descriptive image is clear.


-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7635407743947442138

-http://www.violentce.com/Video/Guy+Vs+Guy

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by justanopinion on Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:46 am

Porky wrote:
Tamta wrote:

Hi Porky.

I am posting two videos of more ghetto style street fighting, the only style I have personally observed!

These guys are able to subdue and maintain dominance over their victims without physically pinning them down.

These videos give a good sense of how explosive they can be, what kind of ground they can cover, and just how anything goes, especially the second one, those guys are hitting his head in a variety of places- they are not necessarily face to face duking it out.

On the street I have seen kids in my old barrio, in a one on one hand to hand fight, get on top of the other if they want to contain the beating, straddle across the chest and use their knees to pin the arms (usually around elbow/upper extremity) of the one they are beating onto the pavement and proceed to beat the *($# out of the face. All the one on the bottom can do is try to turn their head to receive less of a beating, sometimes they are able to rotate or wiggle their torso to one side. I do not think we can post videos of minors, so I am not going to comb the net looking for one to post but I hope my descriptive image is clear.


-http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7635407743947442138

-http://www.violentce.com/Video/Guy+Vs+Guy

Ok but those videos make no sense because there is nothing that suggests that Travon knew how to fight like that. Why did you assume that he did? Video one depicts thugs fighting, which is very inconsistent with who Travon was. Finally, statistically speaking, Zimmerman had an equal probability of having some type of fight training. In fact, his pursuit of law enforcement training along with his obsession of the NW watch lends itself to Zimmerman having the higher likely hood of having obtaining fight training of some kind.



Agreed, Zimmerman based on his past (stuff he had posted on Twitter acct... sorry don't remember the link or the name he used) and the fact of the training he was pursuing and his obsession of LE suggests that he would be the more likely to better equipped to fight. That be said, when in a life or death struggle or extreme fear I would imagine that with adrenalin a person would be capable of much more than would be characteristically possible. MOO
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by ecossie possie on Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:40 am

I know the pro GZ crowd make a big deal over the ice tea as opposed to watermellon drink .They claim the watermellon drink was used in concocting some drink called lean with cough syryp or codine...Seems like a moot point to me re what happened that night...Is Arizona iced tea a brand name? Can you get forintance Arizona Iced tea cherryade or lemonade or Arizona iced tea watermellon juice.In this photo of the drink can you see the ARI for Arizona an further down in smaller letters apears to be ....wa...watermellon?..An below that a picture that is clearly a watermellon.. Some good photos at this link http://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-photos-from-the-night-trayvon-martin-was-shot-2012-5#martin-reportedly-bought-a-can-of-iced-tea-the-night-he-died-15
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:52 pm

ecossie possie wrote:I know the pro GZ crowd make a big deal over the ice tea as opposed to watermellon drink .They claim the watermellon drink was used in concocting some drink called lean with cough syryp or codine...Seems like a moot point to me re what happened that night...Is Arizona iced tea a brand name? Can you get forintance Arizona Iced tea cherryade or lemonade or Arizona iced tea watermellon juice.In this photo of the drink can you see the ARI for Arizona an further down in smaller letters apears to be ....wa...watermellon?..An below that a picture that is clearly a watermellon.. Some good photos at this link http://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-photos-from-the-night-trayvon-martin-was-shot-2012-5#martin-reportedly-bought-a-can-of-iced-tea-the-night-he-died-15
I just think that is wild speculation by them Eccossie. but here is the gaping hole in that theory, cough syrup abuse would have showed up in the toxicology report and I am certain that they would have tested for Ethyl Glucuronide (EtG) or any of the other alcohol metabolites. You can detected EtG 4 days past ingestion.
And of course they sday this without a scintilla of evidence of Travon having a history oif excessive cough syrup purchases.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Hinky Refugee on Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:15 pm

ecossie possie wrote:I know the pro GZ crowd make a big deal over the ice tea as opposed to watermellon drink .They claim the watermellon drink was used in concocting some drink called lean with cough syryp or codine...Seems like a moot point to me re what happened that night...Is Arizona iced tea a brand name? Can you get forintance Arizona Iced tea cherryade or lemonade or Arizona iced tea watermellon juice.In this photo of the drink can you see the ARI for Arizona an further down in smaller letters apears to be ....wa...watermellon?..An below that a picture that is clearly a watermellon.. Some good photos at this link http://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-photos-from-the-night-trayvon-martin-was-shot-2012-5#martin-reportedly-bought-a-can-of-iced-tea-the-night-he-died-15

I think the law enforcement listed it as iced tea incorrectly....Arizona makes fruit flavored drinks that are popular in the US....especially with the younger people...and I had not paid attention to the can. Upon looking at the photo it does appear this is one of the Arizona watermelon drinks. Honestly, I had wondered myself why he or his brother were drinking tea....not too popular amongst young people to buy IMO. In the southern US iced tea is made by the gallons from tea bags normally lol. Watermelon flavored gum and candy are also popular with kids.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Hinky Refugee on Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:19 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Frederick Leatherman Law Blog

Zimmerman: 13 Questions Searching for an Answer

July 25, 2012

http://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/

Ty Alessandra, I was not sure I could do that :)
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by jerseyjul1 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:24 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
WeeBonnie wrote:Deb! Long time no see- thank you!
Is this the color pic- all bloody that was sold to ABC news?
So thet were not part of the doc dump?

So confusing! I saw on JQ yesterday that the famous black and white pic where he appears to have a swollen nose shows marks as if he has tape across his kiss, widening it. That's going to require some explaining!!

Hope all is well with you Deb!


Hello, Wee B! Good to see you, too.

The pictures of TM are thankfully under seal. That includes the ones taken at the crime scene, the autopsy photos and the one taken by W13. It is curious to me that he took a picture of the flashlight though. I have to go back and see what tests were run on it.




Deb it may be that W13 was just taking pictures of everything there just to be thorough. As goofy as this sounds I love NCIS & CSI NY. I pay more attention to things I never used to because of those shows. If I had seen something like W13 did, I would take pictures of the dang birds eating on the grass if I had too, because they were near where it happened. Maybe it's something like that. He was just making sure he got everything he could.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Hinky Refugee on Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:26 pm

Tamta wrote:
Hinky Refugee wrote:I posted over at Leatherman's blog. Too tired to repost here. He had such a great article up with 13 questions and I bit my fingers til I had to post lol. But it covers the flashlight. Not sure I can post a link, but am too tired to repost here tonight...long day :(

Interesting.
As to his theory of the gun being out that far in advance,
Is he familiar with the 911 calls and witness statements?

Has he ever seen someone(s) engaged in a fight street style?
The arms get pinned as soon as possible once the subdominant individual is in contact with the ground. Once you hit the ground, you are screwed.
The witnesses consistently put GZ on the bottom.


It seems even the State has acknowledged that the physical confrontation preceded the shooting and maybe they would even go as far as conceding that Trayvon threw the first punch, as their SPC seems based more on FL stalking statute per DeesDees statements, and that they carefully avoid reference to who began the physical altercation as the witness statements that Serino cites in his report.
Also from a circumstantial perspective, having the keys, flashlight and weapon out does not seem plausible.


I think Porky did a good job of explaining this.
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:38 pm

Hinky Refugee wrote:
ecossie possie wrote:I know the pro GZ crowd make a big deal over the ice tea as opposed to watermellon drink .They claim the watermellon drink was used in concocting some drink called lean with cough syryp or codine...Seems like a moot point to me re what happened that night...Is Arizona iced tea a brand name? Can you get forintance Arizona Iced tea cherryade or lemonade or Arizona iced tea watermellon juice.In this photo of the drink can you see the ARI for Arizona an further down in smaller letters apears to be ....wa...watermellon?..An below that a picture that is clearly a watermellon.. Some good photos at this link http://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-photos-from-the-night-trayvon-martin-was-shot-2012-5#martin-reportedly-bought-a-can-of-iced-tea-the-night-he-died-15

I think the law enforcement listed it as iced tea incorrectly....Arizona makes fruit flavored drinks that are popular in the US....especially with the younger people...and I had not paid attention to the can. Upon looking at the photo it does appear this is one of the Arizona watermelon drinks. Honestly, I had wondered myself why he or his brother were drinking tea....not too popular amongst young people to buy IMO. In the southern US iced tea is made by the gallons from tea bags normally lol. Watermelon flavored gum and candy are also popular with kids.
Wow Hinky, you nailed it. Arizona does not even make a Watermelon flavored Ice Tea and the watermelon drink they do make is the fruit drink
http://arizona-international.com/

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by MollyK on Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:47 pm

Porky wrote:
Hinky Refugee wrote:

I think the law enforcement listed it as iced tea incorrectly....Arizona makes fruit flavored drinks that are popular in the US....especially with the younger people...and I had not paid attention to the can. Upon looking at the photo it does appear this is one of the Arizona watermelon drinks. Honestly, I had wondered myself why he or his brother were drinking tea....not too popular amongst young people to buy IMO. In the southern US iced tea is made by the gallons from tea bags normally lol. Watermelon flavored gum and candy are also popular with kids.
Wow Hinky, you nailed it. Arizona does not even make a Watermelon flavored Ice Tea and the watermelon drink they do make is the fruit drink
http://arizona-international.com/

I think that all of the drinks they make are referred to as "Arizona Iced Tea" even if they are not tea. I was just out with my son, who met two friends for lunch. The mother of one of the boys and I had lunch at a different restaurant. Afterward the boys had some time and they wandered the main street for a while. They bought drinks and when we met them, one of the boys had a can of Arizona Iced Tea. Around here, one of the most popular drinks with boys is a canned mixture of iced tea and lemonade. I think it's called, "Arnold Palmer." The can of AIT that I just saw was enormous. It is really not good that kids are drinking such huge quantities of sugary drinks. I know that their iced tea is sweetened, and I'm sure the watermelon drink that Trayvon had was even worse.

These cans are really large, they must hold at least 24 oz, and the can would have made quite a weapon if Trayvon had swung it in the bag. But it would have been dented, so it seems that this didn't happen.

There have been rumors that Trayvon was using the watermelon drink as a base for an illegal substance, with no evidence that he ever did anything of the kind (and, as Porky points out, no evidence of anything like that in his blood). Similarly, there are rumors that Trayvon was a trained street fighter, but no evidence that I am aware of.

Somehow I don't think there would have been similar attempts to turn a white teenage victim into a drug-abusing thug.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by WeeBonnie on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:02 pm

Robertandgladys.com


Shameless family- three kids, all hoping to never work another day because racists are sending them blood money.


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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:22 pm

I live here and honestly think they have more to worry about TV cameras annoying their neighbors than anyone coming after any of them. The protests were about getting them to arrest him.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by ChicagoChat on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:47 pm

I read Robert Zimmerman's entire page and I feel very sad for their family. However, they don't mention (and shouldn't) that George is not an alter boy anymore. They place ALL of the blame on the media and believe that everyone has conspired against them. They don't hold George accountable for any of his actions and that may say a lot about the George we have today. Also, I was under the impression that they were estranged and that they removed George's name from the house they own in 2006???

I understand that they will do anything to save their son but they must realize that he took the life of a 17 year old young man with a future. They talk about how their life has changed since February 26, 2012...what do they think the Martins are going through? I really wish the Martins would do something like that for Trayvon so that people would stop thinking he is a gang banging street fighter....
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by WeeBonnie on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:38 pm

Well if their other kids had jobs like everybody else in their situation maybe they could help out. I think this is a weasely way to collect more money for GZ and NOT pay the lawyer.
They all saw that 200K and got stars in their eyes- probably expected it to continue to pour in at a steady rate. Maybe GZ shouldn't have spent almost half of it on "household expenses".



Porky wrote:I live here and honestly think they have more to worry about TV cameras annoying their neighbors than anyone coming after any of them. The protests were about getting them to arrest him.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by MollyK on Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:33 pm

I read Robert Zimmerman's website, too. I do feel sorry for the three elderly people, with health problems, whose lives have been disrupted. But I agree with Porky that they should be perfectly safe in their home. And I see no reason why they should not be able to continue doctor's appointments and therapy visits.

It is not clear why their daughter was forced to quit her government job. I can see no reason for this. Is the brother not working as well?

His version of George's life story leaves out a few things.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Porky on Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:25 pm

MollyK wrote:I read Robert Zimmerman's website, too. I do feel sorry for the three elderly people, with health problems, whose lives have been disrupted. But I agree with Porky that they should be perfectly safe in their home. And I see no reason why they should not be able to continue doctor's appointments and therapy visits.

It is not clear why their daughter was forced to quit her government job. I can see no reason for this. Is the brother not working as well?

His version of George's life story leaves out a few things.

And not to be grotesque but we just had a killing in Colorado so visceral that the entire country is united in disgust yet the parents of that shooter in Colorado did not flee their home, or quit their jobs and business and people are uniformly more upset about those killings. People hated the Anthonys and George and Cindy stayed in their house and may even be there today. It is completely a crock of crap that the entire family is now engaged in public begging.

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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by DebFrmHell on Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:25 am

Porky wrote:
MollyK wrote:I read Robert Zimmerman's website, too. I do feel sorry for the three elderly people, with health problems, whose lives have been disrupted. But I agree with Porky that they should be perfectly safe in their home. And I see no reason why they should not be able to continue doctor's appointments and therapy visits.

It is not clear why their daughter was forced to quit her government job. I can see no reason for this. Is the brother not working as well?

His version of George's life story leaves out a few things.

And not to be grotesque but we just had a killing in Colorado so visceral that the entire country is united in disgust yet the parents of that shooter in Colorado did not flee their home, or quit their jobs and business and people are uniformly more upset about those killings. People hated the Anthonys and George and Cindy stayed in their house and may even be there today. It is completely a crock of crap that the entire family is now engaged in public begging.

I agree with you Porky but at the same time the incidences you list had nothing to do with the racial animosity that came with national attention created by misinformation the public was fed by the media. In the race to see who had the best scoop, things were put out that have now been disproven.

This is not to say one side or the other didn't play the "game." They both have and now people, who trusted and relied on them, are dead set in either presumed guilt or innocence and it doesn't matter how much evidence is produced, their minds are not likely to change.

We still haven't seen all the State has to offer. The motion to recuse Judge Lester might effect how things are released, what is to be released and if they are timely. A different judge may have a whole different set of "priorities" than Lester. Until that determination is made it is a crap-shoot, IMO.

The Defense has yet to put much in the way of reciprocal discovery out. IMO, the only effort they have made is to diminish the effects of what has been released thus far.

And yet, you will not find many people who have not already made up their minds, one way or the other. I am the first to admit it is hard to keep an open mind.

My aunt and I did a couple of rounds on this yesterday and she is barely following it. She was a journalism major and graduated at a time when there was more integrity in that field, and I went on a media rant. She thinks they are all good and me...not so much.

As always, IMO!






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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Freckles on Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:48 am

Deb--
Listening to talk radio the other night. Guest speaker was talking about the poor quality of journalism. Currently, many journalists do not check sources; they are out for a first scoop. And they will intentionally plant twitter stories and then report the story as "anonymous".
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Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #6

Post by Gizmo711 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:48 am

Desperation, desperation in the whole Zimmerman family. Npw the parents have a web site begging for money. All else has failed so I guess this is just another attempt to try and get rich off of a killing of a black youth.

Could be that people are seeing the Zimmermans for what they really are. Nothing is going to change the fact that THEIR son killed an unarmed innocent 17 year old for doing nothing but going to the stroe for candy.

There was no need for them to move or have to live in hotels, no one was going to bother the Zimmermans. The Anthony's stayed right where they were as much as they were hated. They too believed in their lying murderess daughter but they didn't run like scared rats.

The Zimmermans are missing the main point, point being that THEIR son is the one that created this entire scenerio, NOT Trayvon. Thier son was the one who wanted to play cop and be a wannabe hero by carrying a loaded weapon to make up his size and to bully with.

Good luck Zimmermans, I doubt that you will be pulling in much more money. You can always go on disability as can your son and his wife

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