George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Page 5 of 20 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 ... 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Tamta on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:09 pm

I understand what the State has charged Zimmerman with, however I understood the issue to be argued in court will be whether Zimmerman was able to retreat and/or employ other means of self defense other than shooting Trayvon.

Zimmerman clearly had injuries that speak to a physical altercation and his blood was on Trayvon's clothing. Their was a situation- not an apparent one, where someone would have had to defend themselves. I think it's going to stop there.

The most contemporaneous 911 calls, like the first 911 call, that Corey sought to suppress along with Zimmerman's statements to SPD, (along with the voice test that he apparently passed because if he failed we would have seen that) cooberate with one another and with Zimmerman being physically subdued by Trayvon at the times that those calls we're made- and Zimmerman did not know these residents were calling 911 at the time of his confrontation with Trayvon. He didn't hear them before his SPD interviews.

BDLRs witness re-interviews won't survive cross examination I imagine.

Zimmerman's statements up against one another: slight variations due to internal inconsistencies or significant dissimilarities?

Fishing expeditions for background information on these two individuals will most likely provide insight into their temperaments which may or may not speak to the inclination that either possessed, or did not, to create or participate in high risk behavior or high conflict situations that COULD result in a scenario that would lead to bodily harm or death to another.

This may or not be used in calculating probability of events but if it's potentially useful (or damaging like states argument for Witness 9 statements) then it should be in both Counsel's possession.

The SM content may be harder to come by it seems but the Defense will get most of what it is requesting because it is relevant, and will remain protected defense is going to get it. I don't see O'Mara reneging on his intent to protect Trayvon's information.

I dont know.
This is beginning to sound a lot like the money raising issue-
Zimmerman has the right to put on an effective defense.
His lawyer has an ethical responsibility to do everything he can for his client.

The State has SM and school records for Zimmerman, the FBI did extensive interviewing, and the Defense will have it for Trayvon and whatever they find the State will have it too.





avatar
Tamta

Posts : 2065
Join date : 2012-05-11
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:46 pm

Sanford Police Department Relied on Voice Stress Analysis in Trayvon Martin Shooting Investigation

April 4th, 2012

https://antipolygraph.org/blog/?p=661

Are Voice Stress Tests Admissible at Trial?

By Stephanie Rabiner, Esq. on April 9, 2012 7:22 AM

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/04/are-voice-stress-tests-admissible-at-trial.html
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:42 pm

It doesn't matter what you think of those injuries. It is what Zimmerman was thinking at the time of their infliction. He has stated that he was afraid he would pass out. He didn't know what would happen if he lost consciousness. And he knew he had a handgun (legally) on his person.

You are looking at it from hindsight and it isn't your head that is involved. There were two lacerations. IMO, the second one is the one that induced the most fear. He had a few goose eggs and abrasions that you can see in other photos. I counted five places of contact with something other than grass. Some have said upwards of nine but I think they are a little exaggerated, IMO. Needless to say, he didn't get those from the grass. It was a physical confrontation and he was on the losing end.

Yes, he has contradictions but the base remains the same. Frankly, I look more to the NEN for more factual statement. Everything on it is going in real time. It is prior to the altercation. Afterwards at the station, he had suffered some injuries and gone through a traumatic experience. In the interview with Singleton the night of the shooting, she interrupts him constantly even though she tells him to go ahead with his story and she will just listen. There are plenty of times she could have made notes for later questions but the detectives job is not to be a friendly adversary. He was already rattled. And he genuinely seemed to want to help.

He was at the station for about 6 hours, IIRC, the first night.

He even drew his own little map that night and it is part of the missing discovery that we have been wondering about. Singleton introduced the overhead layout of The Retreat the second day(?) interviews so he made notes on it, too.

Here is a link to missing discovery. It is from TalkLeft and the items that Jeralyn has listed still remain a mystery:
TalkLeft

The reenactment is important for a trial. Going through that seemed to trigger some memories. IDK. I thought that one made sense but others have not. LOL!

There is still the fact that he has evidence on his side. That can't be avoided.

I think he was a fool not to get a lawyer involved, especially before the reenactment. He believes he is innocent so I just am guessing he didn't think he needed one. I don't understand the logic but I have been through an interrogation before.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:50 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sanford Police Department Relied on Voice Stress Analysis in Trayvon Martin Shooting Investigation

April 4th, 2012

https://antipolygraph.org/blog/?p=661

Are Voice Stress Tests Admissible at Trial?

By Stephanie Rabiner, Esq. on April 9, 2012 7:22 AM

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/04/are-voice-stress-tests-admissible-at-trial.html

I doubt that MOM can get this into a trial. VST may be the new black but it doesn't mean it has been invited to a party...

To my limited knowledge, no trial has ever used one to set precedence. I will have to read the article later, I just skimmed it because I have to get ready for work, and do some googling when I get home.

I think it is funny, in an ironic sort of way, that the State had him take one and he passed so now they has to dispute/discredit their own findings...

avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Freckles on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:07 pm

Deb said:

" It is what Zimmerman was thinking at the time of their infliction. He has stated that he was afraid he would pass out. He didn't know what would happen if he lost consciousness. And he knew he had a handgun (legally) on his person."

GZ has a rather selective memory. Everything he says is directed to GZ looking like a choir boy and TM being the devil incarnate. Is he believable? Not completely. Again. He tinkers with the truth aligning proven and unproven statements to suit his fancy. He is a manipulator.

GZ could not take BASIC instructions from dispatch.
"Are you following him? We don't need you to do that, "
says it all.He was being told to stay in the car, not to get involved any further, and if he did it would be unsanctioned acts. Simple. And so much could have been avoided. Because GZ did not heed the instructions given to him, I have no sympathy for him, and because he elected to insert himself further into what he may have believed was a "potential crime" when he had NO authority, I do not believe self defense is a valid or believable plea for his actions.

Put another way: When a person turns to a higher authority ( a child to a parent, a client to a lawyer, a patient to a doctor, etc.) it is expected that person is going to differ to the advice the higher authority is giving.
Why else seek their advice? And GZ DID appear to differ to the advice to not follow TM.

End of story for me.

avatar
Freckles

Posts : 16456
Join date : 2012-05-13
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Tamta on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:35 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sanford Police Department Relied on Voice Stress Analysis in Trayvon Martin Shooting Investigation

April 4th, 2012

https://antipolygraph.org/blog/?p=661

Are Voice Stress Tests Admissible at Trial?

By Stephanie Rabiner, Esq. on April 9, 2012 7:22 AM

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/04/are-voice-stress-tests-admissible-at-trial.html

I doubt that MOM can get this into a trial. VST may be the new black but it doesn't mean it has been invited to a party...

To my limited knowledge, no trial has ever used one to set precedence. I will have to read the article later, I just skimmed it because I have to get ready for work, and do some googling when I get home.

I think it is funny, in an ironic sort of way, that the State had him take one and he passed so now they has to dispute/discredit their own findings...


In a nutshell there is NO way to tell WHO was crying for help and/or if both individuals were, and the cries for help show nothing as to who was doing what to whom.

The 'information' from this State ordered test being potentially excluded from procedings will simply save time and money on expert witnesses, IMO.
avatar
Tamta

Posts : 2065
Join date : 2012-05-11
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:39 pm

Police typically reserve polygraphs for weak cases only. The reason is simple: when there exists strong evidence against an accused, a polygraph is wholly unnecessary. Ergo, lie detector tests are not used to rule someone out - but to rule someone very much in.

Thanks to the link from Alessandra, I went snooping around in FindLaw's Writ. I thought the above quote was pretty interesting because I never really thought of it like that and naturally, I am assuming that a VST/VSA would be equal to a lie detector. I always thought it was to rule people out of a crime.

LOL! and a huge DUH! Reason No. 18 on why IANAL!

ETA: I decided to play hookie from work.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:46 pm

DebFrmHell wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:Sanford Police Department Relied on Voice Stress Analysis in Trayvon Martin Shooting Investigation

April 4th, 2012

https://antipolygraph.org/blog/?p=661

Are Voice Stress Tests Admissible at Trial?

By Stephanie Rabiner, Esq. on April 9, 2012 7:22 AM

http://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2012/04/are-voice-stress-tests-admissible-at-trial.html

I doubt that MOM can get this into a trial. VST may be the new black but it doesn't mean it has been invited to a party...

To my limited knowledge, no trial has ever used one to set precedence. I will have to read the article later, I just skimmed it because I have to get ready for work, and do some googling when I get home.

I think it is funny, in an ironic sort of way, that the State had him take one and he passed so now they has to dispute/discredit their own findings...



The state had him take a voice recognition test, the voice stress test (VST), which he apparently passed, was administered by a police investigator during one of his interviews. The results of a VST are not admissible in court, on the other hand, voice recognition tests are admissible. The VST is similar to a polygraph test.

----------

RULES OF EVIDENCE

Rule 901. Authenticating or Identifying Evidence

(a) In General. To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence, the proponent must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it is.

(b) Examples. The following are examples only — not a complete list — of evidence that satisfies the requirement:

~Snipped~

(5) Opinion About a Voice. An opinion identifying a person’s voice — whether heard firsthand or through mechanical or electronic transmission or recording — based on hearing the voice at any time under circumstances that connect it with the alleged speaker.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_901

-----------

George Zimmerman Given Voice Recognition Test After Martin Shooting

June 27, 2012 11:03 PM

ORLANDO (CBS4/AP) — New evidence shows the neighborhood watch volunteer charged with killing Trayvon Martin giving a voice identification test.

The recording released Wednesday shows George Zimmerman yelling “help” several times.

Prosecutors wanted to compare that voice test with shouts for help than can be heard on 911 calls reporting the confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin last February at a gated community in Sanford,Fla.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/06/27/george-zimmerman-given-voice-recognition-test-after-martin-shooting/

-----------

There are two voice recognition experts on the prosecution witness list; they are the same ones who told the Orlando Sentinel that the cries for help on the 911 call were not from Zimmerman.

----------

Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say

5:38 p.m. EST, March 31, 2012|By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Read more:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:34 pm

The Use Of Voice As A Forensic Tool

By Steve Cain

http://expertpages.com/news/voice_forensic_tool.htm

________

Voice Biometric Authentication

http://www.authentify.com/solutions/voice_biometrics.html
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:27 am

@Alessandra_Deux

Zimmerman had to have been psychic then. He sat in a patrol car, minutes after the shooting and not knowing that anything may have been recorded, yet Officer Smith overheard him tell EMT's that he "was yelling for help but no one would help me."

Wagist pg 3 of 4

In the long run, I don't think that the yells for help are going to sway one way or the other. As I said before both sides say it is their son in, no doubt, emotional testimony but the FBI report saying that the recording quality was too poor to determine who it actually was will supercede their testimony.

I remember some recording that was made of GZ yelling "help" for a test and I thought it was pointless. They couldn't duplicate the situation his was in.

Example: outdoors, inclement weather, having someone do a beatdown on him. Oh, and I forgot to add that the phone had to be dialed into 911, in an upstairs room in a TH, x number of feet from where he actually was, and through a closed window, so that they could record it to compare to their other recording. There are too many factors to be considered as reliable testing, IMO, and I think that is why the FBI came up with their conclusion.

To my knowledge there has never been any kind of exemplar for Martin's voice in which to compare the "helps." Also, going from memory the guy the OS hired to do the voice recognition test came up with 48% (?) certainty for Zimmerman. That would be 48% compared to 0%, right?

ETA: I am now going to read your new links...





avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:56 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:The Use Of Voice As A Forensic Tool

By Steve Cain

http://expertpages.com/news/voice_forensic_tool.htm

I liked the article by Steve Cain very much. He made dry reading interesting. There is also an article that is about CDs made available to the Defense.

CD Copies of Taped Recordings: A Poor Alternative for Defense
http://expertpages.com/news/cd_copies_recordings.htm



An ever-increasing troubling phenomenon is occurring throughout the U.S., especially in metropolitan areas. The Department of Justice (DOJ) and it’s law enforcement agents are providing defense attorneys with CD copies of Title III, RICO, and other serious felony cases involving consensual telephone intercepts or face to face undercover encounters. Recent contacts with several of my colleagues who are board certified forensic tape experts have revealed that what may have started a couple of years ago as a cost effective means by DOJ of providing digital tape copies to defense attorneys is turning, however, into a growing number of corrupted CD’s which contain compressed and missing audio data which is not suitable for voice identification, tape enhancement, or tape authenticity examinations.

Where do you find these links? You rarely put up something I don't find "Kewl!" In November, the FBI is having a conference here in San Antonio concerning their work with facial recognition programs. I find it fascinating. The Lefties think I am a little crazy and it is the end of the world as we know it. They probably will tromp all over our rights but at least they will be doing it with style! LOL!

The FBI's $1 Billion Face Recognition Project Proceeding as Scheduled
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Freckles on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:14 am

Mini videos from Dr. Phil's show with TM's parents:

http://drphil.com/shows/show/1870
The last two vids are dynamite.
Please do watch them.

Celebrate life. Do not let your tears put out the candle your loved ones have lit when they have walked with God.
avatar
Freckles

Posts : 16456
Join date : 2012-05-13
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:26 am

DebFrmHell wrote:@Alessandra_Deux

Zimmerman had to have been psychic then. He sat in a patrol car, minutes after the shooting and not knowing that anything may have been recorded, yet Officer Smith overheard him tell EMT's that he "was yelling for help but no one would help me."

Wagist pg 3 of 4

In the long run, I don't think that the yells for help are going to sway one way or the other. As I said before both sides say it is their son in, no doubt, emotional testimony but the FBI report saying that the recording quality was too poor to determine who it actually was will supercede their testimony.

I remember some recording that was made of GZ yelling "help" for a test and I thought it was pointless. They couldn't duplicate the situation his was in.

Example: outdoors, inclement weather, having someone do a beatdown on him. Oh, and I forgot to add that the phone had to be dialed into 911, in an upstairs room in a TH, x number of feet from where he actually was, and through a closed window, so that they could record it to compare to their other recording. There are too many factors to be considered as reliable testing, IMO, and I think that is why the FBI came up with their conclusion.

To my knowledge there has never been any kind of exemplar for Martin's voice in which to compare the "helps." Also, going from memory the guy the OS hired to do the voice recognition test came up with 48% (?) certainty for Zimmerman. That would be 48% compared to 0%, right?

ETA: I am now going to read your new links...



He didn't know at that particular moment that the cries for help were recorded, but he knew that the people who called 911 heard someone crying out for help. I don't believe that the person screaming was Zimmerman, he will not admit that it was Trayvon because it won't work in his self defense scenario.

Even if there are no samples of Trayvon's voice, it is still possible to determine that the person screaming was not Zimmerman.

It hasn't been specified what type of equipment was used by the FBI to perform the voice recognition analysis.
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:57 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:@Alessandra_Deux

Zimmerman had to have been psychic then. He sat in a patrol car, minutes after the shooting and not knowing that anything may have been recorded, yet Officer Smith overheard him tell EMT's that he "was yelling for help but no one would help me."

Wagist pg 3 of 4

In the long run, I don't think that the yells for help are going to sway one way or the other. As I said before both sides say it is their son in, no doubt, emotional testimony but the FBI report saying that the recording quality was too poor to determine who it actually was will supercede their testimony.

I remember some recording that was made of GZ yelling "help" for a test and I thought it was pointless. They couldn't duplicate the situation his was in.

Example: outdoors, inclement weather, having someone do a beatdown on him. Oh, and I forgot to add that the phone had to be dialed into 911, in an upstairs room in a TH, x number of feet from where he actually was, and through a closed window, so that they could record it to compare to their other recording. There are too many factors to be considered as reliable testing, IMO, and I think that is why the FBI came up with their conclusion.

To my knowledge there has never been any kind of exemplar for Martin's voice in which to compare the "helps." Also, going from memory the guy the OS hired to do the voice recognition test came up with 48% (?) certainty for Zimmerman. That would be 48% compared to 0%, right?

ETA: I am now going to read your new links...



He didn't know at that particular moment that the cries for help were recorded, but he knew that the people who called 911 heard someone crying out for help. I don't believe that the person screaming was Zimmerman, he will not admit that it was Trayvon because it won't work in his self defense scenario.

Even if there are not samples of Trayvon's voice, it is possible to determine that the person screaming was not Zimmerman.

It hasn't been specified what type of equipment was used by the FBI to perform the voice recognition analysis.

Verifying The Integrity Of Audio And Videotapes

This is another article by Steve Cain regarding how the FBI's Signal Analysis Branch works and the criteria that is set.

In a nutshell:
The examination process normally includes both an aural, physical, and instrumental analysis of the evidential tape. Phase continuity, speed determination, azimuth determination, waveform analysis, spectrographic and narrow band spectrographic analysis are among the techniques employed to evaluate the tape.

So actually we do have a good idea of the testing that went on within their lab. They couldn't determine who was actually doing the "Help" cries.

From Discovery, they issued four reasons:
1) Produced under an extreme emotional state
2) Limited in the number of words and phrases uttered
3) Superimposed by other voices most of the time
4) Distant, reverberant and low signal quality

This is a Quick Reference guide for the first 183 page Doc Dump. All you have to do is look on the side bar and it can get you to the FBI report.
NY TIMES

IMO ALERT:
The only persons that Zimmerman had immediate contact with was W13 and W16 (Selma Mora). He would not be privy to who was saying what on any of the 911 calls that were coming in. W13 didn't even make a call himself. Some 20 seconds after W13 arrived, Officer Smith got there. Zimmerman surrendered immediately, was handcuffed, his weapon removed and he was placed in a patrol car. His next contacts were with EMTs and he told them that he was yelling for help.

So he would have no idea what content was being recorded. For all I know, he may have thought they were responding to his original call. He said he called them to W13. He told Selma Mora to "just call the police" according to her statement and that would be after the gunshot. I don't know that anyone in LE ever told him they were responding to a "shots fired" call or of anyone in distress. I don't think he knew the extent until he was at the station giving his interviews.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Freckles on Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:41 am

Found this to be of interest:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html?ref=us

Page 182: Fire Dept Incident report on GZ

"Cause of Injury: Struck by blunt/thrown object (9640)"

IIRC, GZ stated to PD his head had been cracked on the ground, sidewalk. Head injury was not caused by any object thrown at him.

Page 122: Laboratory Report
This is for TM.
Under results:
" Both holes show residue and physical effects consistent with a contact shot."

(PD lists TM as being face up when he was discovered by officers. Was this the position he was originally in after being shot or had he been turned over? I have not read to discover if grass or moisture stains were located on his outer clothing and where they were located if they had been found. )
avatar
Freckles

Posts : 16456
Join date : 2012-05-13
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:45 am

E10.1 Cause of Injury/Illness – all of the Codes for the Values changed in accordance with the NEMSIS NHTSA Uniform PreHospital EMS Data Set, Version 2.2. Please see the EMSRB – NHTSA / NEMSIS 2.2 Data Dictionary EMSRB Version 3.0.2. NEMSIS provided the following additional values:
9600 = Motorcycle Crash
9605 = Non-Motorized Vehicle Crash
9630 = Stabbing / Cutting Accidental
9640 = Struck by Blunt / Thrown Object

It is just the code that most closely resembles the injuries to Zimmerman. There is a national code for EMS.

National EMS Information System
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Tamta on Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:25 am

DebFrmHell wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:

He didn't know at that particular moment that the cries for help were recorded, but he knew that the people who called 911 heard someone crying out for help. I don't believe that the person screaming was Zimmerman, he will not admit that it was Trayvon because it won't work in his self defense scenario.

Even if there are not samples of Trayvon's voice, it is possible to determine that the person screaming was not Zimmerman.

It hasn't been specified what type of equipment was used by the FBI to perform the voice recognition analysis.

Verifying The Integrity Of Audio And Videotapes

This is another article by Steve Cain regarding how the FBI's Signal Analysis Branch works and the criteria that is set.

In a nutshell:
The examination process normally includes both an aural, physical, and instrumental analysis of the evidential tape. Phase continuity, speed determination, azimuth determination, waveform analysis, spectrographic and narrow band spectrographic analysis are among the techniques employed to evaluate the tape.

So actually we do have a good idea of the testing that went on within their lab. They couldn't determine who was actually doing the "Help" cries.

From Discovery, they issued four reasons:
1) Produced under an extreme emotional state
2) Limited in the number of words and phrases uttered
3) Superimposed by other voices most of the time
4) Distant, reverberant and low signal quality

This is a Quick Reference guide for the first 183 page Doc Dump. All you have to do is look on the side bar and it can get you to the FBI report.
NY TIMES

IMO ALERT:
The only persons that Zimmerman had immediate contact with was W13 and W16 (Selma Mora). He would not be privy to who was saying what on any of the 911 calls that were coming in. W13 didn't even make a call himself. Some 20 seconds after W13 arrived, Officer Smith got there. Zimmerman surrendered immediately, was handcuffed, his weapon removed and he was placed in a patrol car. His next contacts were with EMTs and he told them that he was yelling for help.

So he would have no idea what content was being recorded. For all I know, he may have thought they were responding to his original call. He said he called them to W13. He told Selma Mora to "just call the police" according to her statement and that would be after the gunshot. I don't know that anyone in LE ever told him they were responding to a "shots fired" call or of anyone in distress. I don't think he knew the extent until he was at the station giving his interviews.

In the court room I can hear the defense putting forth that: Zimmerman's NEN call was a call to report concern of a potentially suspicious person and a request for help, that witness testimony shows Zimmerman just prior to the shooting, to be the individual out of he and Trayvon to ask for LE to be called (for help), and he sought "help from another" on more than one occasion prior to the screams for help and the shooting. Added to witness testimony placing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, these together would make it possible for a reasonable inference that it was Zimmerman who wanted help and also would have been likely to vocalize that need out loud while in a struggle.

Also through his NEN call and his contact with those witnesses that he told to call police, Zimmerman knew police presence was imminent, it was desired, and that he was being directly watched by residents.






avatar
Tamta

Posts : 2065
Join date : 2012-05-11
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:01 am

Tamta wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:

Verifying The Integrity Of Audio And Videotapes

This is another article by Steve Cain regarding how the FBI's Signal Analysis Branch works and the criteria that is set.

In a nutshell:


So actually we do have a good idea of the testing that went on within their lab. They couldn't determine who was actually doing the "Help" cries.

From Discovery, they issued four reasons:
1) Produced under an extreme emotional state
2) Limited in the number of words and phrases uttered
3) Superimposed by other voices most of the time
4) Distant, reverberant and low signal quality

This is a Quick Reference guide for the first 183 page Doc Dump. All you have to do is look on the side bar and it can get you to the FBI report.
NY TIMES

IMO ALERT:
The only persons that Zimmerman had immediate contact with was W13 and W16 (Selma Mora). He would not be privy to who was saying what on any of the 911 calls that were coming in. W13 didn't even make a call himself. Some 20 seconds after W13 arrived, Officer Smith got there. Zimmerman surrendered immediately, was handcuffed, his weapon removed and he was placed in a patrol car. His next contacts were with EMTs and he told them that he was yelling for help.

So he would have no idea what content was being recorded. For all I know, he may have thought they were responding to his original call. He said he called them to W13. He told Selma Mora to "just call the police" according to her statement and that would be after the gunshot. I don't know that anyone in LE ever told him they were responding to a "shots fired" call or of anyone in distress. I don't think he knew the extent until he was at the station giving his interviews.

In the court room I can hear the defense putting forth that: Zimmerman's NEN call was a call to report concern of a potentially suspicious person and a request for help, that witness testimony shows Zimmerman just prior to the shooting, to be the individual out of he and Trayvon to ask for LE to be called (for help), and he sought "help from another" on more than one occasion prior to the screams for help and the shooting. Added to witness testimony placing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, these together would make it possible for a reasonable inference that it was Zimmerman who wanted help and also would have been likely to vocalize that need out loud while in a struggle.

Also through his NEN call and his contact with those witnesses that he told to call police, Zimmerman knew police presence was imminent, it was desired, and that he was being directly watched by residents.


But then, there are the witnesses who saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin:

“You heard the gunshot?” Cooper interjected.

“Yeah, I run away from my backyard and when I just get into the point of my — like my screen, it stopped me, I look at the person on his knees on top of a body,” Lamilla elaborated.

“So you saw Mr. Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin?” Cooper questioned.

“Trayvon, exactly,” Lamilla said.

“When you say on top of, how so?” the CNN anchor pressed.

“Straddling him,” Cutcher replied.

“His legs were straddling him?” Cooper followed up.

“One on each side, on his knees, with his hands on his back."
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:32 am

DebFrmHell wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:

He didn't know at that particular moment that the cries for help were recorded, but he knew that the people who called 911 heard someone crying out for help. I don't believe that the person screaming was Zimmerman, he will not admit that it was Trayvon because it won't work in his self defense scenario.

Even if there are not samples of Trayvon's voice, it is possible to determine that the person screaming was not Zimmerman.

It hasn't been specified what type of equipment was used by the FBI to perform the voice recognition analysis.

Verifying The Integrity Of Audio And Videotapes

This is another article by Steve Cain regarding how the FBI's Signal Analysis Branch works and the criteria that is set.

In a nutshell:
The examination process normally includes both an aural, physical, and instrumental analysis of the evidential tape. Phase continuity, speed determination, azimuth determination, waveform analysis, spectrographic and narrow band spectrographic analysis are among the techniques employed to evaluate the tape.

So actually we do have a good idea of the testing that went on within their lab. They couldn't determine who was actually doing the "Help" cries.

From Discovery, they issued four reasons:
1) Produced under an extreme emotional state
2) Limited in the number of words and phrases uttered
3) Superimposed by other voices most of the time
4) Distant, reverberant and low signal quality

This is a Quick Reference guide for the first 183 page Doc Dump. All you have to do is look on the side bar and it can get you to the FBI report.
NY TIMES

IMO ALERT:
The only persons that Zimmerman had immediate contact with was W13 and W16 (Selma Mora). He would not be privy to who was saying what on any of the 911 calls that were coming in. W13 didn't even make a call himself. Some 20 seconds after W13 arrived, Officer Smith got there. Zimmerman surrendered immediately, was handcuffed, his weapon removed and he was placed in a patrol car. His next contacts were with EMTs and he told them that he was yelling for help.

So he would have no idea what content was being recorded. For all I know, he may have thought they were responding to his original call. He said he called them to W13. He told Selma Mora to "just call the police" according to her statement and that would be after the gunshot. I don't know that anyone in LE ever told him they were responding to a "shots fired" call or of anyone in distress. I don't think he knew the extent until he was at the station giving his interviews.


These are some excerpts from the Orlando Sentinel article:

Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis — a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match.

----------

"I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

---------

"Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult.

And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says."

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare.

Forensic voice identification is not a new or novel concept; in fact, a recent U.S. Department of Justice committee report notes that federal interest in the technology "has a history of nearly 70 years."

________


The Easy Voice Biometric Analysis Algorithms:

The original analog Spectrograph generally referred to as the Voice Identification V700 or the Kay Sonograph was the tool of the day in which to perform the analysis. The technology at the time limited the analysis to the visual spectrograph comparisons of the formants, since the numerical information regarding pitch, rate, and other factors was not accurately available from the machines. Other equipment could be utilized to
ascertain that information, but the listening and formant comparison was the main features on which a conclusion or opinion was formulated.

In the 1980’s, Kay Elemetrics, with the help from the Russian Scientists at Speech Technology Center, produced a piece of software called Multispeech. This program was able to replace the analog machines and technology with a new digital version of speech analysis enabling the examiner to conduct the same aural-spectrographic method including all of the numerical results of the pitch, gaps, format tracking, etc.

So in essence, it was the start of the modern day Voice Biometric System. The examiner was able to identify or eliminate and make a verification of that analysis.

As a result of the Multispeech and IKAR Labs (Speech Technology Center) Voice Analysis programs, the “manual” method of Voice Identification requiring a verbatim exemplar has been superseded. Although it is advised whenever possible to obtain a verbatim exemplar, it is not always practical or possible. With the proper software techniques, a voice numerical model of a subject’s speech can be obtained utilizing the original aural and visual cues listed above. This vast amount of information is fed as a model into a database and a detailed analysis can be conducted within the computer environment to discriminate between one model and another voice model.

The experience of the last 50 years in speech technology has taught us that the human voice is one of the best biometric descriptors that can be utilized.

Page 8:

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com/docs/evbadditionalinfo.pdf
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:14 pm




_______

Trayvon Martin 911 Call: How Experts ID Voices

Voice recognition software can show the actual speech structure of the vocal cords to make a match.

By Sheila Eldred
Wed Apr 4, 2012 03:53 PM ET

~Snipped~

Tom Owen, a forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, recently analyzed the tape. After running the woman's 911 call through a software program called Easy Voice Biometrics and comparing it to another 911 call with Zimmerman's voice, Owen's team concluded that the screams for help were not Zimmerman's.

And, Owen said, if he had samples of Martin's voice, he may be able to definitively identify the screams as his.

"We've talked to the family; the attorney has been notified," he told Discovery News.

How can he be so sure?

Read more:

http://news.discovery.com/tech/george-zimmerman-voice-recognition-120404.html
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:51 pm

There doesn’t seem to be any disclosure in the Orlando Sentinel article that Tom Owen owns EasyVoiceBiometrics.com, nor any that he was using his own software package to do the analysis.

I’m not sure whether the Orlando Sentinel author realizes it, but that could easily be construed as a conflict of interest, particularly when the software is currently being sold for $5,000 per license. There’s an extremely transparent profit motive for Tom Owen to promote his product in any way that he can, especially at that price.

About Those Audio Forensic Experts…WAGIST

My money is on the FBI when it comes to taking the stand.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:02 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:
Tamta wrote:

In the court room I can hear the defense putting forth that: Zimmerman's NEN call was a call to report concern of a potentially suspicious person and a request for help, that witness testimony shows Zimmerman just prior to the shooting, to be the individual out of he and Trayvon to ask for LE to be called (for help), and he sought "help from another" on more than one occasion prior to the screams for help and the shooting. Added to witness testimony placing Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, these together would make it possible for a reasonable inference that it was Zimmerman who wanted help and also would have been likely to vocalize that need out loud while in a struggle.

Also through his NEN call and his contact with those witnesses that he told to call police, Zimmerman knew police presence was imminent, it was desired, and that he was being directly watched by residents.


But then, there are the witnesses who saw Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin:

“You heard the gunshot?” Cooper interjected.

“Yeah, I run away from my backyard and when I just get into the point of my — like my screen, it stopped me, I look at the person on his knees on top of a body,” Lamilla elaborated.

“So you saw Mr. Zimmerman on top of Trayvon Martin?” Cooper questioned.

“Trayvon, exactly,” Lamilla said.

“When you say on top of, how so?” the CNN anchor pressed.

“Straddling him,” Cutcher replied.

“His legs were straddling him?” Cooper followed up.

“One on each side, on his knees, with his hands on his back."

This is after the gunshot... They didn't see the altercation and their story changed a bit after a meeting with Sybrina Fulton.

I don't have time to go back and check with their original statements but IIRC, at first Mary Cutcher told LE initially that she didn't see anything but her roommate did. They didn't want to be involved at all for the written statement that night. They had a change of heart sometime later that evening on the condition that Mary Cutcher work as a translator for Selma Mora in the statement. There was nothing about a child or young person crying out in those statements. I may be wrong but like I said I don't have time to look right now.

I will get links for the original statements when I get home from work. Sorry.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Stolat on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:23 am

DebFrmHell wrote:E10.1 Cause of Injury/Illness – all of the Codes for the Values changed in accordance with the NEMSIS NHTSA Uniform PreHospital EMS Data Set, Version 2.2. Please see the EMSRB – NHTSA / NEMSIS 2.2 Data Dictionary EMSRB Version 3.0.2. NEMSIS provided the following additional values:
9600 = Motorcycle Crash
9605 = Non-Motorized Vehicle Crash
9630 = Stabbing / Cutting Accidental
9640 = Struck by Blunt / Thrown Object

It is just the code that most closely resembles the injuries to Zimmerman. There is a national code for EMS.

National EMS Information System

Makes sense -- I think most of us assume that to be struck by a blunt object, the person is inanimate and the object is the force in motion. But easily this could be reversed: the person is the force in motion and comes in contact with a blunt object (aka ground).
avatar
Stolat

Posts : 801
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : Oddly Somewhere Close To You

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:51 am

I had a curious thing happen. Someone from Justice4Trayvon picked up on my Twitter account. I have no idea who this person is and why they would be interested in me. I think I have had my Twitter for about 3 years and have made maybe 5 tweets so I think they are going to die of boredom.

King Mike 33? Who is that? Do they think I am a Republican? A poop-disturber?

Well, maybe a little of the latter. affraid

Very Happy

avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:48 am

Shellie Zimmerman not expected in court at routine Wednesday hearing

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
9:27 a.m. EST, September 19, 2012

Shellie Zimmerman has a court date in Sanford Wednesday at 9 a.m. for a routine hearing in her perjury case, but she won't be there.

Defense attorney Kelly Sims wrote in an email to the Orlando Sentinel that she would not appear. He will, he wrote, and will ask for a continuance.

The hearing is called a "docket sounding", a short proceeding at which attorneys for both sides tell the judge, in this case Debra S. Nelson, whether they are ready for trial.

This case is nowhere near that. Sims has not yet asked to look at the state's evidence.

The 25-year-old Mrs. Zimmerman is charged with perjury, a felony.

Read more:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-19/news/os-shellie-zimmerman-hearing-20120918_1_shellie-zimmerman-george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:53 am

More documents to be released in George Zimmerman case

Neighborhood watch leader charged with murder in death of Trayvon Martin

Published On: Sep 19 2012 06:17:31 AM EDT Updated On: Sep 19 2012 09:08:08 AM EDT

SANFORD, Fla. - Prosecutors are releasing more records in the case of George Zimmerman, the former neighborhood watch leader charged with fatally shooting 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

The records being released Wednesday include a photo of Zimmerman's head that was taken by a witness following a confrontation with Martin.

The documents could possibly include Zimmerman's school records, other crime scene photos and Martin's cellphone records. Emails from the Sanford Police Department, the agency that initially investigated Martin's death, may also be released.

Read more:

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/More-documents-to-be-released-in-George-Zimmerman-case/-/1637132/16657842/-/lt848z/-/index.html
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:10 am

In Session ‏@InSession
#Zimmerman Update: Only DNA evidence found on handgun used to shoot #TrayvonMartin is George Zimmerman's.

In Session ‏@InSession
#Zimmerman Update: DNA evidence on the Skittles is partial DNA from #TrayvonMartin, but there could be another partial contributor.

avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:12 am

bob kealing ‏@bobkealing
@Fdle lab report: #TrayvonMartin DNA not on gun used to kill him. Evidence released today in state vs. #Zimmerman.

avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:30 am

New documents show only Zimmerman's DNA on gun

By Amanda Evans, Reporter
Last Updated: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 @ 11:08AM

SANFORD --
The latest release of discovery documents in the case against George Zimmerman includes photos, documents, audio recordings and email records.

The state Attorney's Office release its sixth and seventh sets of supplemental discovery records in the case Wednesday morning. Some of that includes the FDLE forensic and DNA reports from the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot.

Forensic tests show Zimmerman's DNA was the only one that could be identified on the grip of the gun used to fatally shoot Trayvon.

The results made public rule out Martin's DNA from being on the gun's grip. Zimmerman's DNA also was identified on the gun's holster. The tests were inconclusive as to whether Martin's DNA was on the gun's holster.

Trayvon's blood was on a pack of Skittles he was carrying.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/9/19/new_documents_expect.html?cmpid=twitter
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:01 pm

Sanford chief received more than 40,000 emails within 3 days

Wednesday's release also included tens of thousands of emails to Sanford police Chief Bill Lee, who was later fired after a delay in Zimmerman's arrest led to weeks of protests in the city.

Of the nearly 50,000 emails included in the release, more than 42,000 of them were copies of a petition started on the website Change.org, sent within a three-day period from March 13–16.

The emails sent via Change.org read as follows:

Read more:

(At the bottom of the page)

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/9/19/new_documents_expect.html?cmpid=twitter#emails
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Freckles on Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:30 pm

KFI-640 AM (I Heart radio on computer : http://www.iheart.com/live/177/?autoplay=true)

Bill Carroll, host, with guest Lou Shapiro, defense atty:
--- They are discussing the shooting, lack of blood splatter, lack of DNA on gun

--- Where is evidence they wrestled for gun?
As long as he had reasonable defense TM was going for gun. Reasonable person's standard.

--- GZ states he felt TM go for the gun but no DNA on gun; had did GZ get there first?

---No witnesses, he will have to testify;
GZ will have to say he didn't have time to wait as he felt his life was on the line

avatar
Freckles

Posts : 16456
Join date : 2012-05-13
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:52 pm

Blood work tests released in Zimmerman murder trial

By Frances Robles
The Miami Herald

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/19/3010311/blood-work-tests-released-in-zimmerman.html#storylink=cpy

_______


Trayvon Martin’s DNA Not Found On Zimmerman’s Gun

September 19, 2012 8:32 PM

~Snipped~

In his February 27th interrogation, Zimmerman indicated Martin reached for the gun.

“I felt him take one hand off my mouth and slide it down my chest,” Zimmerman told Sanford Police investigators the night after the shooting. “I just pinched his arm and I grabbed my gun and I aimed it at him and I fired one shot.”

New documents released Wednesday from the Duval County State Attorney lists the gun grip as exhibit DMS -21a.

The Florida Department of Law Enforcement evidence says, “Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3) is excluded as a possible contributor to the mixed DNA obtained from exhibit DMS-21a.”

A few lines down, while still referencing the gun grip, the FDLE report said, “This major DNA profile is consistent with originating from a male individual and matches the DNA profile from George Michael Zimmerman.”

Tests show there was DNA from at least three different people on the holster Zimmerman used to carry his gun. One sample matched Zimmerman, but the other two couldn’t be identified, according to the documents.

The evidence also included several sketches from eye-witnesses explaining the scuffle between Martin and Zimmerman.

Read more:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/09/19/more-documents-to-be-released-in-zimmerman-case-2/
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by justanopinion on Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:35 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:September 19, 2012

State v. Zimmerman

New Documents Released

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Documents:

Supplemental discovery (PDF)

33 Pages

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-Discovery-Redacted-0919.pdf

________

FDLE evidence (PDF)

262 Pages

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-FLDE-bio-evidence-2-0919.pdf

________

Exemption list to discovery (PDF)

1 Page

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-EXEMPTIONS-0919.pdf

________

FDLE evidence description (PDF)

29 Pages

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/2012/09/GZ-part5-Gorgone-FDLE-complete-report-0919.pdf

________

Audio

Interview with 7-Eleven employee (WAV)

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/GZ-INTERVIEW-Witness31-711employee-0919.wav

________

Source: http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/9/19/new_documents_expect.html?cmpid=twitter


Interesting for me that the 7-11 employee had no recollection of TM. Which for me indicates that there was nothing significant to remember, wasn't considering him as someone that would rob the store or be aggressive in anyway.

Also I find it interesting that there is no DNA for TM on the gun or holster.. There is no Zimmerman DNA under the nails, or on the cuffs of TM shirt/hoodie. I am really wondering how much physical contact they really had??
avatar
justanopinion

Posts : 2342
Join date : 2011-11-18
Location : North of the Equator; South of the Pole
Mood : Angry

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by justanopinion on Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:55 am

I was reading some of the comments by people at the bottom of the news stories. I am disheartened about the upcoming trial as the viewpoints are so diverse. I hope that the jury will at least put their own biases away and really hear the evidence.
avatar
justanopinion

Posts : 2342
Join date : 2011-11-18
Location : North of the Equator; South of the Pole
Mood : Angry

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:19 pm

IMO! ALERT!

Pretty much everything that was released Weds. was released in the first doc dump. There wasn't anything really new with the exception of the drawings from W1, W3, W6 and W18. The forensics we have had for months so no "news" there.

I thought those were pretty interesting, especially John's (W6) since it confirms to what he was saying about the movement between the grass and the concrete sidewalk. W1 talked about "arms flailing" and even noted it on her drawing.

The pictures from the PI were taken from the vantage points of the witnesses. I guess they were faxed and the quality is terrible but the only issue I have with those is that they were taken in daylight. EXAMPLE: Look at the one from W18's back porch through the screen and try to picture that taken at night with little lighting. It would be next to impossible to see anything.

All in all, I was looking forward to seeing something brought to the mix. I didn't see much.

Change of subject and still IMO:
Tox reports. I think the reason for people wondering where the full tox screens are is that the ME took head and public hair samples. Those would determine if the pot use was recreational or if it was chronic. At least that would be my reasoning if I wanted to see that.

I am not that interested since his prior drug use isn't an issue to me. The blood work that was released stated that he had THC in his system but the levels indicated that use was at the least hours and most likely a day or so before the shooting.

Regardless, even though the totality of it has not yet been released to the public, no doubt MOM has the full report. If he doesn't, he should be asking for it, like, yesterday...

@JustanOpinion, there is no reason for TM to have left any DNA on the gun or the holster. In Zimmerman's statements, he said that TM was reaching for the gun. He didn't say that he had grabbed it or that they were wrestling for it.

avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Stolat on Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:56 pm

justanopinion wrote:(snipped)Interesting for me that the 7-11 employee had no recollection of TM. Which for me indicates that there was nothing significant to remember, wasn't considering him as someone that would rob the store or be aggressive in anyway.

Yes! me too. And it appears evident that the 7-11 worker was latino as well. Why is this important? Because had he been african american, some squawker would surely say that he was only protecting someone within his own race. But someone who lacks racial affiliation confirmed (through his lack of any recollection) that there was nothing "suspicious" about Trayvon, as Zimmerman had reported.

http://newsone.com/2016203/trayvon-martin-7-11/
avatar
Stolat

Posts : 801
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : Oddly Somewhere Close To You

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:48 pm

Stolat wrote:
justanopinion wrote:(snipped)Interesting for me that the 7-11 employee had no recollection of TM. Which for me indicates that there was nothing significant to remember, wasn't considering him as someone that would rob the store or be aggressive in anyway.

Yes! me too. And it appears evident that the 7-11 worker was latino as well. Why is this important? Because had he been african american, some squawker would surely say that he was only protecting someone within his own race. But someone who lacks racial affiliation confirmed (through his lack of any recollection) that there was nothing "suspicious" about Trayvon, as Zimmerman had reported.

http://newsone.com/2016203/trayvon-martin-7-11/

I don't think they got around to interviewing him for weeks (5?) later. Martin was in the store for roughly 5 minutes. The clerk sees a lot of people during his shift. Since TM doesn't live in that area, I don't think he would be considered a "regular" customer and someone who he would recognize.

The detectives were just covering the bases, IMO.

((I see a lot of people at work, sometimes a week or so later, they come in again and they remember me but I have no clue, usually. It takes me several times before I start to recognize them.))

avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:58 pm

Zimmerman’s friend: Trayvon grabbed gun

A new book written by George Zimmerman’s best friend offers a sharply different account of the night Trayvon Martin died.

By Frances Robles | The Miami Herald
Posted on Thursday, 09.20.12

Trayvon Martin grabbed his killer’s gun just moments before he died and uttered a profanity-laced threat. In a desperate life-or-death struggle, George Zimmerman clutched Trayvon’s wrist, broke his grip on the semi-automatic firearm and shot him once in the chest.

That account appears in a new book written by Zimmerman’s best friend and confidante.

There’s just one problem: Zimmerman never said that to the police.

~Snipped~

Osterman, a Central Florida U.S. air marshal, was among the first people Zimmerman’s wife called on Feb. 26, when she learned her husband had just shot someone. Osterman rushed to the scene that night and accompanied his best friend along every step of the way through the investigation, including his first three police interrogations.

Osterman acknowledges that former police chief Bill Lee was his former lieutenant on the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department whom he held up as a father figure. Osterman says he was quickly recognized by cops on the scene, but insists that he never coached his friend on what to tell them.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/20/3012853/zimmermans-friend-trayvon-grabbed.html#storylink=cpy
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:59 pm

Prosecutors: Keep Trayvon Martin's school records secret

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
3:51 p.m. EST, September 20, 2012

SANFORD – The lead prosecutor in the George Zimmerman case is suggesting that defense attorney Mark O'Mara is trying to create a media feeding frenzy by digging up Trayvon Martin's school disciplinary records.

In a new pleading, Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda asks Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson to seal whatever those records show and in the future to keep O'Mara's subpoenas a secret.

O'Mara is entitled to go on a fishing expedition to find out about Trayvon's past, according to court paperwork de la Rionda filed Wednesday, but "he is not allowed to chum the waters and then, by innuendo or otherwise, to publish irrelevant items … to the media in an attempt to influence public perception or otherwise curry favor with potential jurors."

De la Rionda also Wednesday filed a new evidence list – his eighth. It shows that a book and television appearance by Zimmerman's self-proclaimed best friend, former Seminole County deputy Mark Osterman, are now officially part of the case prosecutors are building against Zimmerman.

~Snipped~

Those records typically are protected from public disclosure, and, as de la Rionda pointed out in his new pleading, would not be admissible in court because they're not relevant to the shooting.

He accused O'Mara of using his law firm's website to publicize the subpoena and implied O'Mara was trying to damage Trayvon's reputation.

Read more:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-09-20/news/os-george-zimmerman-school-records-fight-20120920_1_trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara-george-zimmerman-case
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Stolat on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:13 am

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Zimmerman’s friend: Trayvon grabbed gun

A new book written by George Zimmerman’s best friend offers a sharply different account of the night Trayvon Martin died.

By Frances Robles | The Miami Herald
Posted on Thursday, 09.20.12

Trayvon Martin grabbed his killer’s gun just moments before he died and uttered a profanity-laced threat. In a desperate life-or-death struggle, George Zimmerman clutched Trayvon’s wrist, broke his grip on the semi-automatic firearm and shot him once in the chest.

That account appears in a new book written by Zimmerman’s best friend and confidante.

There’s just one problem: Zimmerman never said that to the police.

~Snipped~

Osterman, a Central Florida U.S. air marshal, was among the first people Zimmerman’s wife called on Feb. 26, when she learned her husband had just shot someone. Osterman rushed to the scene that night and accompanied his best friend along every step of the way through the investigation, including his first three police interrogations.

Osterman acknowledges that former police chief Bill Lee was his former lieutenant on the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department whom he held up as a father figure. Osterman says he was quickly recognized by cops on the scene, but insists that he never coached his friend on what to tell them.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/20/3012853/zimmermans-friend-trayvon-grabbed.html#storylink=cpy

I'm sorry - I fail to see the role that Osterman played if not to act either as influencer or coach. You can't possibly expect me to believe he NEVER once said "ok, if they ask you..." If Osterman wants us to believe that all Zimmerman needed was a friend to sit with him and offer support through the process -- uh....wouldn't that have been his WIFE???!! I'm just *not* that naive and I can't imagine anyeone else to be either on this one. Why was the first person called and only person to sit with him through the interview process formerly connected to the very police investigating him??
avatar
Stolat

Posts : 801
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : Oddly Somewhere Close To You

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Stolat on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:48 am

DebFrmHell wrote:
Stolat wrote:

Yes! me too. And it appears evident that the 7-11 worker was latino as well. Why is this important? Because had he been african american, some squawker would surely say that he was only protecting someone within his own race. But someone who lacks racial affiliation confirmed (through his lack of any recollection) that there was nothing "suspicious" about Trayvon, as Zimmerman had reported.

http://newsone.com/2016203/trayvon-martin-7-11/

I don't think they got around to interviewing him for weeks (5?) later. Martin was in the store for roughly 5 minutes. The clerk sees a lot of people during his shift. Since TM doesn't live in that area, I don't think he would be considered a "regular" customer and someone who he would recognize.

The detectives were just covering the bases, IMO.

((I see a lot of people at work, sometimes a week or so later, they come in again and they remember me but I have no clue, usually. It takes me several times before I start to recognize them.))


I highly doubt he lives in a bubble and didn't see the news the very next night and didn't say "hey! I was working last night at the 7-11 plastered all over the news." He would have heard the news story the very next day - like everyone -else and had Trayvon been a "suspicious" looking dude to him, he would have started to pull his recollection together. I was a retail cashier for Sears and within a 24 hr period I could recall a good portion of my customers even if I had tons in a day. I might not remember faces, but if one of them stood out or struck me as "suspicious" that most *certainly* would be the most memorable person of all- especially if all I had to do was recollect the previous 24-48 hrs. The Non-suspicious ones I'd have harder time recollecting. It's the ones that made me uneasy who stuck in my memory banks. So that's my point -- apparently Trayvon had same effect on this guy -- BAU...Business As Usual.

He didn't *just* start thinking about it 5 weeks later.
avatar
Stolat

Posts : 801
Join date : 2012-05-12
Location : Oddly Somewhere Close To You

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Tamta on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:28 am

Osterman's book is...Osterman's story.
avatar
Tamta

Posts : 2065
Join date : 2012-05-11
Mood : Eyebrow

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:19 pm

Stolat wrote:
DebFrmHell wrote:

I don't think they got around to interviewing him for weeks (5?) later. Martin was in the store for roughly 5 minutes. The clerk sees a lot of people during his shift. Since TM doesn't live in that area, I don't think he would be considered a "regular" customer and someone who he would recognize.

The detectives were just covering the bases, IMO.

((I see a lot of people at work, sometimes a week or so later, they come in again and they remember me but I have no clue, usually. It takes me several times before I start to recognize them.))


I highly doubt he lives in a bubble and didn't see the news the very next night and didn't say "hey! I was working last night at the 7-11 plastered all over the news." He would have heard the news story the very next day - like everyone -else and had Trayvon been a "suspicious" looking dude to him, he would have started to pull his recollection together. I was a retail cashier for Sears and within a 24 hr period I could recall a good portion of my customers even if I had tons in a day. I might not remember faces, but if one of them stood out or struck me as "suspicious" that most *certainly* would be the most memorable person of all- especially if all I had to do was recollect the previous 24-48 hrs. The Non-suspicious ones I'd have harder time recollecting. It's the ones that made me uneasy who stuck in my memory banks. So that's my point -- apparently Trayvon had same effect on this guy -- BAU...Business As Usual.

He didn't *just* start thinking about it 5 weeks later.

I agree with you but I saw the news reports from early on before they deleted them after ninety days. There was really no mention of him going to the store that I remember. It was a week plus (March 9th-ish)before anything was mentioned about any trip to the store and the "Tea and Skittles" mantra was born.

We have all seen the video and I don't think there was anything "noteworthy" to remember either. The guys behind him, the one with the covered face, I would have remembered. I would have made him leave the store immediately.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:23 pm

Tamta wrote:Osterman's book is...Osterman's story.

He is one of the reasons I would like to see a trial. Watching him get impeached would bring a smile to my face.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:52 pm

Times columnist discusses Trayvon Martin case

By Gerald Doherty — Senior Writer
Published: September 23rd, 2012 11:55 am

Charles Blow, a New York Times visual op-ed columnist, gave a presentation at Cornell University titled “Journalism and Justice: The Trayvon Martin Case” on Thursday, focusing on opinion media coverage of the case.

Blow’s speech began with a recap of the details of the shooting and its aftermath, including the circumstances of Martin’s stay in Sanford, Fla., George Zimmerman’s wrongful possession of a firearm as a watchman and the case’s handling by the Sanford police department. Blow said though it is a national tragedy when any person is murdered, the questions of justice surrounding the case elevated it to national discussion.

“This case in particular was not about an extraordinary death. It was about an extraordinary inequity in the application of justice,” Blow said. “This case was about who is deserving of the presumption of guilt and innocence: the dead boy with the candy and the soda, or the grown man who shot him in the chest and is standing over his body with a gun?”

Blow also talked about the rise of opinion journalism, which he said lead to a politicization of the Martin shooting by the media.......

~Snipped~

However, Blow said the opinion journalism surrounding the Martin case might have helped bring Zimmerman to trial.

“It’s a tricky thing. If it were not for the people who wrote opinion pieces about Trayvon’s case, we may never have come to a charge, we may never have gotten to the place where we’re going to have a judge and jury decide who’s innocent or who’s guilty,” Blow said.

Read more:

http://theithacan.org/25123
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by justanopinion on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:40 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Times columnist discusses Trayvon Martin case

By Gerald Doherty — Senior Writer
Published: September 23rd, 2012 11:55 am

Charles Blow, a New York Times visual op-ed columnist, gave a presentation at Cornell University titled “Journalism and Justice: The Trayvon Martin Case” on Thursday, focusing on opinion media coverage of the case.

Blow’s speech began with a recap of the details of the shooting and its aftermath, including the circumstances of Martin’s stay in Sanford, Fla., George Zimmerman’s wrongful possession of a firearm as a watchman a[/color]nd the case’s handling by the Sanford police department. Blow said though it is a national tragedy when any person is murdered, the questions of justice surrounding the case elevated it to national discussion.

“This case in particular was not about an extraordinary death. It was about an extraordinary inequity in the application of justice,” Blow said. “This case was about who is deserving of the presumption of guilt and innocence: the dead boy with the candy and the soda, or the grown man who shot him in the chest and is standing over his body with a gun?”

Blow also talked about the rise of opinion journalism, which he said lead to a politicization of the Martin shooting by the media.......

~Snipped~

However, Blow said the opinion journalism surrounding the Martin case might have helped bring Zimmerman to trial.

“It’s a tricky thing. If it were not for the people who wrote opinion pieces about Trayvon’s case, we may never have come to a charge, we may never have gotten to the place where we’re going to have a judge and jury decide who’s innocent or who’s guilty,” Blow said.

Read more:

http://theithacan.org/25123


Interesting statement!!
avatar
justanopinion

Posts : 2342
Join date : 2011-11-18
Location : North of the Equator; South of the Pole
Mood : Angry

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:46 pm

Robert Zimmerman Discusses His Brother And The Trayvon Martin Case

Posted: Sep 24, 2012 10:37 AM CDT Updated: Sep 24, 2012 6:54 PM CDT

By: Robin Sax, FOX 11 Legal Analyst
By: Steve Edwards, Host, Good Day LA
Posted by: Jeffrey Thomas DeSocio, Web Editor / Producer


Robert Zimmerman Reads Official Letter Of Condolence

~Snipped~

George Zimmerman's brother Robert was with us on Good Day LA with this exclusive interview. Robert comprised an official letter of condolence for Trayvon Martin's family and the public to view:

Read more: http://www.myfoxla.com/story/19623255/robert-zimmerman-discusses-his-brother-and-the-trayvon-martin-case#ixzz27XpZAaxt

(Videos at link)
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by DebFrmHell on Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:48 pm

You will note that Blow did not say illegal...only wrongful. Is that in a moral sense?


Zimmerman has long held that he was on the way to Target and not patrolling the neighborhood. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

And NW programs have guidelines and are not law. He was carrying his weapon legally whether he was going to the grocery store or driving around the neighborhood.

Also, Blow even says in the last paragraph that the op-ed pieces may have influenced the outcome (i.e. the arrest)

Given the length of time, some 44 days, it also stands to reason that the investigation ran its course and charges were then filed.

IMO, overcharged but charged none the less.
avatar
DebFrmHell

Posts : 440
Join date : 2012-05-13
Location : Just This Side of Hell, Texas

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:42 pm

George Zimmerman judge schedules hearing on Trayvon's school records

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
3:50 p.m. EDT, September 25, 2012

A Sanford judge has set an Oct. 19 hearing so that George Zimmerman's lawyer and prosecutors can argue over what to do about Trayvon Martin's school records.

Trayvon is the unarmed black 17-year-old whom Zimmerman fatally shot Feb. 26 in Sanford.

Earlier this month defense attorney Mark O'Mara issued subpoenas for the school records, making clear that he wants to look at Trayvon's disciplinary records, attendance, test scores and other information.

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-trayvon-martin-school-records-hearing-20120925,0,6186343.story
avatar
Alessandra_Deux

Posts : 21157
Join date : 2012-05-12

Back to top Go down

Re: George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin Case -- General Discussion #7

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 20 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 ... 20  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum