NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:51 pm

Just--
From above link I posted:

" CT police say anyone spreading false info about school shooting via social media will be prosecuted http://t.co/j5jsx6Ko""
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:24 pm

Oh, my. Please let the police show this group OUT!
Arrest them for inciting! Enough. Let the citizens of neighboring towns rise up and protect this little community. What a hateful group!

Westboro Baptist Church Member Says Group Will Picket Sandy Hook Elementary

" Westboro also released a video called "God Sent the Shooter," saying it is a "message for Connecticut.""

http://newtown.patch.com/articles/westboro-baptist-church-member-says-group-will-picket-sandy-hook-elementary


" There are also efforts being pulled together for counter protests to create "walls of love" around the funeral-goers, including one by Angel Action, a group that has volunteers dress in 10-foot wings to surround and shield the WBC's targets, the Daily Mail reported. "

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/121216/anonymous-hacks-westboro-baptist-church-sandy-hook-funeral-picket

And another in Indiana:
Man Arrested With 47 Guns: Threatened Another Elementary School Massacre

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/man-arrested-with-47-guns-threatened-another-elementary-school-massacre-86747/#HwQ48zELATyjrBA3.99


The world has gone flipping mad! Sad

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:56 pm

" As a student as Western Connecticut State University in 2008 and 2009, Lanza received As, Bs and Cs in courses ranging from computer programming to macroeconomics to German speaking.

"Adam Lanza was a student for a while at WCSU,” said Paul Steinmetz, interim Vice President for Institutional Advancement, Sunday. “His overall GPA for the six classes that he completed was 3.26.”

According to Steinmetz, Lanza started classes in the summer of 2008 when he was 16 and took website production (A-) and Visual BASIC (A). In fall of 2008 he took data modeling — a computer science class in which he took a withdraw — and Philosophy 101, introduction to ethical theory (C). In spring of 2009 he took American History Since 1877 (A-) and introduction to German speaking, which he dropped early in the semester so it didn't count against his GPA. In the summer of 2009 he took principles of macroeconomics (B)."

" Kraft recalled one anecdote from just a day or two after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

“A day or two after [Nancy] went to Home Depot, to Lowes — to all the hardware stores in the area — and spent probably $3,000 on gloves and mittens and coats and drove them down to New York,” he said. “She was that kind of person: would do something and act immediately if she could help.”

Kraft confirmed that, to his knowledge, Nancy never worked at Sandy Hook Elementary, though she regularly volunteered in the community and likely at the school at some point."

"James Champion, uncle of suspected shooter Adam Lanza and brother to mother Nancy, is a police officer in Kingston."

http://newtown.patch.com/articles/police-release-identity-of-gunman-27th-victim-in-sandy-hook-shooting
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by justanopinion on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:31 pm

In Critical Incident Stress Management we are taught that it is important for the people in these kinds of situations to review their role and the part they played in participating in going into the school. It is important to note that when reviewing the outcome can not change but that there may be something that will cause them PTSD or a change in outlook. That if they recognize is a trigger that they can adjust and continue to be able to work effectively.

One of the cases I worked was a firefighter that has responded to a car fire that several children died in.. They were unable to get them out and had heard the screams as the children died. He was obviously well trained but could not come to terms with what happened.. when reviewing the outcome what shook him... and the one thing he would change was a pair of lace socks the little girl wore.. they were identical to his daughters.

I truly hope and pray that once the busy is done with the officers entering that school and investigating. that someone brings in a Critical Incident Stress Management team to help debrief the Officers who entered the School.

JMO

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:38 pm

Freckles wrote:Oh, my. Please let the police show this group OUT!
Arrest them for inciting! Enough. Let the citizens of neighboring towns rise up and protect this little community. What a hateful group!

Westboro Baptist Church Member Says Group Will Picket Sandy Hook Elementary

" Westboro also released a video called "God Sent the Shooter," saying it is a "message for Connecticut.""

http://newtown.patch.com/articles/westboro-baptist-church-member-says-group-will-picket-sandy-hook-elementary


" There are also efforts being pulled together for counter protests to create "walls of love" around the funeral-goers, including one by Angel Action, a group that has volunteers dress in 10-foot wings to surround and shield the WBC's targets, the Daily Mail reported. "

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/121216/anonymous-hacks-westboro-baptist-church-sandy-hook-funeral-picket

And another in Indiana:
Man Arrested With 47 Guns: Threatened Another Elementary School Massacre

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/man-arrested-with-47-guns-threatened-another-elementary-school-massacre-86747/#HwQ48zELATyjrBA3.99


The world has gone flipping mad! Sad


Freckles - oh no! How can these folks have more pain heaped upon them, just 8 days before Christmas. Instead of Santa visiting these children and the thrill it brings parent's to see the excitement of their little one's faces on Xmas morning, these parent's are burying their children and trying to grasp the life they shared as a family is never going to be the same.

I can't understand the hate for these insane groups to target those that are in unbearable pain. I do think there is going to be an outpouring of support for these families, but the weeks and the months ahead are going to be more difficult than I can imagine.

Prayers and hope for the families of Sandy Hope. Sad Sad Sad

Politicians are screaming about gun control, but what about mental illness? Criminals, imo, are always going to have guns.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:44 pm

justanopinion wrote:In Critical Incident Stress Management we are taught that it is important for the people in these kinds of situations to review their role and the part they played in participating in going into the school. It is important to note that when reviewing the outcome can not change but that there may be something that will cause them PTSD or a change in outlook. That if they recognize is a trigger that they can adjust and continue to be able to work effectively.

One of the cases I worked was a firefighter that has responded to a car fire that several children died in.. They were unable to get them out and had heard the screams as the children died. He was obviously well trained but could not come to terms with what happened.. when reviewing the outcome what shook him... and the one thing he would change was a pair of lace socks the little girl wore.. they were identical to his daughters.

I truly hope and pray that once the busy is done with the officers entering that school and investigating. that someone brings in a Critical Incident Stress Management team to help debrief the Officers who entered the School.

JMO


justanopinion - you bring up something I hadn't thought about and make a good point. I guess I have mostly thought of the murders of those at Sandy Hope, and hadn't thought about the first responders having to cope. Too, it is going to be difficult for the surviving children to feel safe it would seem, or even for their parent's to leave them at school.

So many need help, it's overwhelming to read about.


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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:19 pm

Mother concerned about Adam, one week before being murdered.


The friend said they knew Adam was prone to hurting himself.

'She just looked down at the glass and said, 'I don't know. I'm worried I'm losing him,' the friend told the Daily News.

'She said it was getting worse. She was having trouble reaching him.'

It wasn't the first time Nancy told him something was wrong with her son.

'Nancy told me he was burning himself with a lighter. In the ankles or arms or something,' he recalled of a conversation they had roughly one year ago. 'It was like he was trying to feel something.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2249122/He-getting-worse-Gunmans-mother-told-friend-fears-week-bloody-rampage-began-shot-multiple-times-head.html

self injurious behavior is always a sign of mental illness.

Though I agree with everyone the focus should be on the dead, I don't know how we can know or predict evil behavior.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Trueblue on Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:26 pm

I am so sorry to hear about the shooting of innocent victims in CT. All of Australia is praying for their families.
I do not understand why this woman Nancy, allowed her son near any gun, that to me is irresponsible to say the least.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:34 am

CBS news this AM is reporting:
Agents are reporting two home computers have been retrieved.Both were destroyed and they are unable to retrieve any info from these computers.

(I have to wonder: Can they not retrieve info from the servers? I am sure there are other ways.)

There is a problem here: The perp's living quarters were well organized, clean, neat. Even the closets were organized. His bed was made. For someone this nest and organized, it would make no sense for him to "smash" or destroy computers in this way. Instead, I would envision the possibility of removing the memories, destroying them , discarding elsewhere.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Estee on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:50 am

I honestly do not see how this tragedy could have been prevented...Anyone dead set on doing something will go to no ends to see that it gets done...I don't blame anyone other than the young man that committed this horrendous slaughter...It appears to me that the school security was adequate...Who knew someone would be brazen enough to bust through a window?

Now every school in the country will be attempting to bolster their security...Obviously this was a random incident stemming from an altercation with a mentally unstable young man...Who could have guessed that it would lead up to this!!!


Last edited by Estee on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:53 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:50 am

OFF TOPIC

http://news.yahoo.com/137-police-shots-2-dead-many-questions-ohio-163330872.html;_ylt=Ap8i7_JxiyXxuGCErJlPohfzWed_;_ylu=X3oDMTVxaTlwNTE4BGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDQXJ0aWNsZSBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IE5ld3MgZm9yIFlvdSB3aXRoIE1vcmUgTGluawRwa2cDNjU3NGUwYmUtOTg3Zi0zOWE5LWFiZDAtYTU0OTBhNWI5ZDYxBHBvcwM1BHNlYwNuZXdzX2Zvcl95b3UEdmVyA2QzZjM1MjgwLTQ3OWUtMTFlMi1hN2ZmLWU0YmM4MjljOTdiOQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTJtbHVsMzdlBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNmMzNGEzYWEtYTY5My0zMmEyLThkOGEtNmJkNzdkNGJiMGM3BHBzdGNhdAN1LXMEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdl;_ylv=3

CLEVELAND (AP) — A chase that ended with 13 officers firing 137 rounds, killing two people, began with a pop — perhaps a gunshot or backfire from a car speeding past police headquarters.


" For the next 25 minutes late in the night of Nov. 29, the car crisscrossed Cleveland tailed by officers, headed along Interstate 90 and wound up near the back entrance of a school in East Cleveland, where police opened fire."

"You just can't help but wonder how so many officers were able to shoot so many bullets at these two people in this vehicle," said Paul Cristallo, an attorney representing Russell's family."


I will reserve my comments.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:54 am

Estee wrote:I honestly do not see how this tragedy could have been prevented...Anyone dead set on doing something will go to no ends to see that it gets done...I don't blame anyone other than the young man that committed this horrendous slaughter...It appears to me that the school security was adequate...Who knew someone would be brazen enough to bust through a window?

Now every school in the country will be attempting to bolster their security...Obviously this was a random incident stemming from an altercation...
Those intent on circumventing the laws will always find ways.
The school HAD prepared.
Gun shops HAD done their legal duties.
And while it is a tragedy, I must also think of those parents in other countries who have held their dead children in their arms after American made weapons have devastated their families.

Why is this unacceptable but the deaths of foreign children is acceptable?

Sorry. My anger is rising. The truth is: IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR EITHER!
I am just an outdated hippie, I guess.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:58 am

Freckles wrote:OFF TOPIC

http://news.yahoo.com/137-police-shots-2-dead-many-questions-ohio-163330872.html;_ylt=Ap8i7_JxiyXxuGCErJlPohfzWed_;_ylu=X3oDMTVxaTlwNTE4BGNjb2RlA2dtcHRvcDEwMDBwb29sd2lraXVwcmVzdARtaXQDQXJ0aWNsZSBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IE5ld3MgZm9yIFlvdSB3aXRoIE1vcmUgTGluawRwa2cDNjU3NGUwYmUtOTg3Zi0zOWE5LWFiZDAtYTU0OTBhNWI5ZDYxBHBvcwM1BHNlYwNuZXdzX2Zvcl95b3UEdmVyA2QzZjM1MjgwLTQ3OWUtMTFlMi1hN2ZmLWU0YmM4MjljOTdiOQ--;_ylg=X3oDMTJtbHVsMzdlBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNmMzNGEzYWEtYTY5My0zMmEyLThkOGEtNmJkNzdkNGJiMGM3BHBzdGNhdAN1LXMEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdl;_ylv=3

CLEVELAND (AP) — A chase that ended with 13 officers firing 137 rounds, killing two people, began with a pop — perhaps a gunshot or backfire from a car speeding past police headquarters.


" For the next 25 minutes late in the night of Nov. 29, the car crisscrossed Cleveland tailed by officers, headed along Interstate 90 and wound up near the back entrance of a school in East Cleveland, where police opened fire."

"You just can't help but wonder how so many officers were able to shoot so many bullets at these two people in this vehicle," said Paul Cristallo, an attorney representing Russell's family."

" Then the gunfire erupted: 137 rounds, Russell shot 23 times and Williams 24 times and their car pockmarked.

Jeff Follmer, president of the police union, defended the officers' actions and said officers used force to confront a driver using his vehicle as a potentially deadly weapon."


I will reserve my comments.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:45 am

Estee wrote:I honestly do not see how this tragedy could have been prevented...Anyone dead set on doing something will go to no ends to see that it gets done...I don't blame anyone other than the young man that committed this horrendous slaughter...It appears to me that the school security was adequate...Who knew someone would be brazen enough to bust through a window?

Now every school in the country will be attempting to bolster their security...Obviously this was a random incident stemming from an altercation with a mentally unstable young man...Who could have guessed that it would lead up to this!!!

Estee - a great comment, I wholeheartedly agree. I worked in the school system and the reality is, schools are the most vulnerable, most security guards don't even have mace, they can break up a fight but that's about it. In some of the high schools in my city, LE patrols the neighborhoods around a campus but if there is any trouble, the school calls 911. School districts usually don't have any extra money for anything, their broke. Something as common as a video at every exit at the little school Kyron attended would have solved his disappearance and probable murder, but the fact is, a simple a solution as it is, it is very expensive and hard to implement. Where do the funds come from, raise taxes, etc. Some support those measures, and some don't, they don't want their taxes a penny higher.

I too don't blame the mother, or anyone else in Adam's family. imo, Adam could have made pipe bombs as he was so intelligent, the list is endless at those wanting to harm other's can do. Until we can recognize the face of evil, have them arrested or locked up, I don't see a resolution. In my State, our Governor is slashing medicaid to the bone, 2 residential psychiatric hospitals have been forced to close and despite pleadings of those that treat the mentally ill, many of these patients are going to be back on the streets, unable to work, no place to live, and in some cases, stealing and committing crimes against other's to survive. It's common to drive by the bus station in my town to see the schizophrenics screaming and yelling, sometimes at no one, they just hear voices.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:58 am

Could the nation's mental health services be improved in the wake of the Connecticut school shooting

Families and doctors who treat the mentally ill say they hope that Friday's tragedy in Newtown, Conn., will refocus the nation's attention on improving mental health services.

Police have not yet released details about the motives or mental state of shooter Adam Lanza. But the perpetrators of similar mass murders -- at Virginia Tech, Northern Illinois University and a Tucson gathering for Rep. Gabby Giffords, for example -- all suffered from serious mental health conditions.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/16/newtown-mental-health/1773479/

I have several friends that work with the mentally ill and they say you can't force them to even take their medication, some refuse because of the side effects. Those that are mentally ill don't see that they need help many times and it's difficult to lock them up for any length of time, even to prevent them from hurting themselves or others.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:11 am

You said it, art tart.
Putting a band-aid on the situation with the removal of guns is not going to solve a deeper problem we have. Mental health in America NEEDS addressing.
Family unity NEEDS addressing.
Respecting the rights of others NEEDS addressing.
Teaching morality, support, guidance, and giving acceptance to others is what is needed.

And in Sandy Hook School, a teacher pauses, then explains WHY she told her students she loved them as she KNEW she had been told to NOT tell her students she cared for them. Now, we have to have a reason to tell a child WE ADULTS care about them? This is screwy!

All the drugs in the world will not work.
Remove guns will not work.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Estee on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:21 am

You got it Freckles and Art...Perhaps the way in which the altercation was handled could have descalated the hostility...Trying to see the other side of the coin does help at times...Sympathy and empathy with an open mind and calm demeanor goes a long way...
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:25 am

Freckles -In reading about Adam last night, apparently he had been targeted in middle school by school authorities and saw a school psychologist. I am so impressed, there are 900,000 students in my school district and there are 2 psychologist that work for the entire district, they mainly meet w/special needs parents when an inervention is done.

It was interesting that the psychologist didn't think Adam would hurt other's, BUT that he would hurt himself. I guess his self injurious behavior might have been obvious. Adam's mother too didn't want him to be left alone, she wanted him supervised at all times, there were reasons for all the concern for Adam.

Sadly, no doubt Adam had mental health issues, imo, the scale is pretty high to force those individuals to get the help they need OR convince families to do something about it, like, instead of trying to fix the problem, GET PROFESSIONAL HELP for your loved one's. I am not passing judgement on Adam's mom, but families with children with special needs, autism, mental illness have gut wrenching jobs 24/7 and most of these are lifelong.

imo, Adam was too old probably for some type of intervention or behavior modification, IDK, I can't understand.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:46 pm

How can someone be too old for mental health assistance?

I know that is not what you meant but it is the unspoken.
Besides, schools are NOT the place for a mental health assessment; they may assist but they are NOT doctors. I have seen too many cases in which teachers do not want to respect or work with the child who is "out of the box" and then want to label the child as attention deficit, a real problem but one unfortunately blamed for all kinds of NORMAL restless behavior by children.

Children are people, too. They just can't articulate on the adult levels. They have good days and bad days, they make plans, and they get bored in school.

When my children were little, the first week of school, I would ask each of them if their teacher had SMILED, or laughed. IF the teacher had not, I had my child transferred to a more positive teacher. (Is it difficult for you to spend 8 hours with a grumpy spouse, a grumpy boss, a grumpy in-law? And you, the adult, have better skills than these little ones have.)

Yeah. I was the parent out of hell because I WAS involved! Teachers could call me ANYTIME and I was willing and ready to assist. However, while talking to me, when they said, "your student," I would remind them s/he was not my student but my child--- s/he was THEIR student. And when I was told the teachers cared as much about my child as I did, I nicely pointed out that in one year I would still be caring for my child and they would be forgetting my child's name.

Health care and concerns being addressed are a real problem. I do NOT see Obama care improving the situation.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Estee on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:01 pm

Parents should not be ostriches by ignoring the signs that something is wrong or be in denial about it...I had to jump up and down for 2 years demanding that my son be "Staffed"...Just because a child has a high IQ does not mean that the synapses are perfect...All families are dysfunctional to some degree or another, no matter how perfect they appear...
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:14 pm

Freckles shared:

How can someone be too old for mental health assistance?

Freckles - I didn't state that clearly, my error. The younger intervention and diagnosis is done on a person/teenager/child, the more successful the results. Some children with issues are intervened on as early as 5 or 6 rs. old.

What I meant was:
When kids become legal age, like Adam being 20 yrs. old, parent's have few rights to force treatment, medication, or intervention unless the kid is threatening to kill you or themselves. Then you can put a coroner's hold on them IF the coroner thinks the risk is great enough, and in my State, they can hold them for 72 hours, then release them. It is no resolution to ongoing problems.

It seems from what I read, that Adam's challenges were obvious to just about everyone from an early age, elementary school. Too, I don't know that anyone could have predicted that Adam was so evil, though he self mutilated, he might not have been seen as a high risk for hurting other's.

Something that bothers me is that I read his mother took him out of high school to home school him AFTER meeting with counselor's/principal/psychologist. Sadly, sometimes parent's think they know better than those that work with children for a living and sometimes they do, but in the case of Adam, imo, his deficits may have been so glaring the school wanted them addressed and the mother didn't. IDK.

I too fear his computer is going to be a nightmare when the contents are revealed.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Lash on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:15 pm

art tart wrote:There is no doubt Adam had some issues, but imo, I think it is plausible that Adam went to the school because usually school personal DO NOT have guns and they have no way to protect themselves or the children EXCEPT for the actions some teachers took that did save lives: putting children in a closet, having them hide under desks etc. Adam knew the death toll would be high, Adam could kill UNTIL LE/swat arrived to take his life or until he ended it himself, and that's exactly what he did. (I too think he was still angry over the altercation that happen there the day before)

If Adam had gone to a mall, rent-a-cops have guns at some malls to shoot back or private citizens may have a gun and a permit for it in their purse or jacket and the death toll might not have been so high, something imo, I think he wanted, to kill as many innocent people as he possibly could.

Although Adam's mother did was not a teacher at Sandy Hope School, Adam's aunt said she "was a substitute teacher."

I too don't think this is a gun control issue, Adam could have made a bomb and thrown it on a school bus, ran a car through a cross walk where children were exiting school. imo, this has everything to do with mental illness, rage, & hate. UNTIL we can recognize EVIL, imo, we remain vulnerable to those that feel they have nothing to lose and want to take innocence with them.

Excellent post Art Tart...EVIL HAS NO BOUNDARIES!
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Estee wrote:Parents should not be ostriches by ignoring the signs that something is wrong or be in denial about it...I had to jump up and down for 2 years demanding that my son be "Staffed"...Just because a child has a high IQ does not mean that the synapses are perfect...All families are dysfunctional to some degree or another, no matter how perfect they appear...

Estee - I agree. I have read several friends of Adam's mom said she would get him help if he needed it, but imo, it's apparent just from reading about Adam that he needed ongoing treatment of some sort, possibly for years. Self mutilation is probably why his mother wanted him watched all the time, but my girlfriend that is a psychologist says that many times kids self mutilate to feel pain & it is extremely difficult to treat or even get to the core of the problem. She said that therapy is ongoing for years in many of those cases.

Apparently, Adam's mother had to be in denial to some extent since surely she didn't anticipate Adam would murder children. It's just unthinkable, too painful to think about even. I thought it was strange that Adam's mother was ordered to take Parenting Classes after the divorce, Adam was 17 yrs. old at that time.

Adam was going to murder imo, if he didn't use a gun, he might have burned down a church, killed innocent people w/his car, the list is endless as to the murder weapon he could have chosen.

The fact is, Adam may have suffered from many "exceptionalities," some diagnosed and some not perhaps. His extremely high IQ lends itself to asperger's syndrome, but I don't know. It does seem that his mother was well aware that Adam had problems, I am curious as to his diagnosis.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Trueblue on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:27 pm

I have to agree to disagree that if the gun laws were changed, and his Mother had no guns in the house or even locked up he would not have been able to use them. I agree that he could have used other methods, but would have taken more time and might have been detected before this tragedy happened. Who knows! IMO
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:34 pm

art tart wrote:
Freckles shared:

How can someone be too old for mental health assistance?

Freckles - I didn't state that clearly, my error. The younger intervention and diagnosis is done on a person/teenager/child, the more successful the results. Some children with issues are intervened on as early as 5 or 6 rs. old.

What I meant was:
When kids become legal age, like Adam being 20 yrs. old, parent's have few rights to force treatment, medication, or intervention unless the kid is threatening to kill you or themselves. Then you can put a coroner's hold on them IF the coroner thinks the risk is great enough, and in my State, they can hold them for 72 hours, then release them. It is no resolution to ongoing problems.

It seems from what I read, that Adam's challenges were obvious to just about everyone from an early age, elementary school. Too, I don't know that anyone could have predicted that Adam was so evil, though he self mutilated, he might not have been seen as a high risk for hurting other's.

Something that bothers me is that I read his mother took him out of high school to home school him AFTER meeting with counselor's/principal/psychologist. Sadly, sometimes parent's think they know better than those that work with children for a living and sometimes they do, but in the case of Adam, imo, his deficits may have been so glaring the school wanted them addressed and the mother didn't. IDK.

I too fear his computer is going to be a nightmare when the contents are revealed.
I was being obtuse in my earlier response to you, art tart.

The mother DID home school him and the quality of that education varies greatly by state and with the parent. Keep in mind, by the time he was 16 yo, he was already taking college courses and those were not light weight classes, IMO, but typical of beginning college. He did well with his academics so the problem was not his studies but his socialization.

The mother, IMO, knew her younger son was not like the older son. Both were polite and both were shy. However, the younger son appears to be retreating and becoming "paranoid" if I am reading the comments correctly others stated to the media.

Was he on medication? Was he monitored for the effectiveness of the medication?
Did he feel overwhelmed by daily interactions and expectations?
Was his mother "overprotecting" him or in denial? Perhaps, feeling overwhelmed herself?
Was there outside pressure on him to act/become "normal" which he was unable to meet?

I dunno. The outcome, however, is to point out, again, there are mentally ill walking amongst us. There are those who may look and act normal but are coping, walking a tightrope. While it would be impossible to reach each and everyone of those in need, to ignore the need is tantamount to condoning it. And to reach even a few, may have possible implications for our society.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:38 pm

Trueblue wrote:I have to agree to disagree that if the gun laws were changed, and his Mother had no guns in the house or even locked up he would not have been able to use them. I agree that he could have used other methods, but would have taken more time and might have been detected before this tragedy happened. Who knows! IMO
Fertilizer, as in the Oklahoma bombing?
Chemicals as used in the trains in Japan?

Currently, in my little community, we have had 6 bomb scares, 6 evacuations this fall. All since November. All on our schools. And now, in yesterday's paper, someone cleaning an apartment found an IED. Not knowing what it was, they drove it to our local police station! It was confirmed to be a pipe bomb missing the fuse. Hole there for a fuse but it was missing.

BTW, years ago, in SoCalifornia, a man was disgruntled with children and he DID drive his car into the nursery school. I was stunned someone could "hate" children so much as to want to kill an innocent child who was a stranger to him.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:13 pm

Updates:

Two Adult Survivors of Connecticut School Shooting Will Be Key Witnesses
" Two adult survivors who were shot and injured in the Newtown, Conn., school massacre will be integral parts of the investigation into the deadly rampage, police said today. "

http://abcnews.go.com/US/adult-survivors-connecticut-school-shooting-key-witnesses/story?id=17998071

Sandy Hook Nurse Hid From Shooter: ‘His Boots Were Facing My Desk’

" After the door closed, Cox said the secretary raced into her office, shut the door and hid under her desk. Together, they pulled the phone off the desk and dialed 911. They then raced into a supply closet and held the door closed. Cox said they remained there for close to four hours."

" When the police made rounds, looking for survivors, they came across Cox and the secretary still in the office, and escorted them out of the building. Cox, who had tested every kid’s hearing and vision in Sandy Hook, said the police shielded them from the horrific carnage in the hallway.

“They told us to close our eyes. They said, ‘Close your eyes,’” she said."

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/sandy-hook-nurse-saw-shooter-his-boots-were-facing-my-desk/

Newtown Shooting: Couple Vow to Live for Dead Daughter Jessica Rekos


"This morning I found a little journal, and it was exactly what I needed, because it says, 'I love you so much momma, love Jessica,'" her mother said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/newtown-shooting-couple-vow-live-dead-daughter-jessica/story?id=17996306

Newtown, Conn., First Responders Had Never Experienced 'Anything of This Magnitude'

" Added Chief Bill Halstead: "It would be nice if I could wake up tomorrow morning and say this was a dream." "

http://abcnews.go.com/US/newtown-conn-responders-experienced-magnitude/story?id=17995927
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:43 pm

I believe in the right to bear arms and the 2nd amendment, BUT, I wouldn't care if they took the assault rifles off the market and made them illegal. They fire so many rounds so rapidly raising the death toll. It seems if a NUTJOB decides to shoot up Target and had to reload every 8 or 9 shots, the death toll would come down. Of course, PERPS could always carry a bag of loaded guns, so he didn't have to reload.

I once heard a politician say, "if we outlawed guns in America, it would hurt responsible gun owner's that had a gun for hunting or one in their home for protection, the criminals will still have guns." imo, it seems too late to ban all guns as there as so many in the public domain and not registered, but I can't understand why anyone needs an assault rifle since they aren't used for hunting.

As many of us have discussed, mental illness as the common denominator as well as guns create a deadly situation for the innocent in these mass murders.


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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:04 pm

art tart wrote:I believe in the right to bear arms and the 2nd amendment, BUT, I wouldn't care if they took the assault rifles off the market and made them illegal. They fire so many rounds so rapidly raising the death toll. It seems if a NUTJOB decides to shoot up Target and had to reload every 8 or 9 shots, the death toll would come down. Of course, PERPS could always carry a bag of loaded guns, so he didn't have to reload.

I once heard a politician say, "if we outlawed guns in America, it would hurt responsible gun owner's that had a gun for hunting or one in their home for protection, the criminals will still have guns." imo, it seems too late to ban all guns as there as so many in the public domain and not registered, but I can't understand why anyone needs an assault rifle since they aren't used for hunting.

As many of us have discussed, mental illness as the common denominator as well as guns create a deadly situation for the innocent in these mass murders.

We could give them to Eric Holder and he could give them to the Mexican drug cartel.
To shoot up our border patrol.

I am being sarcastic.

I would agree on the automatic weapons which fire multiple projectiles when pulling the trigger once. The semi-automatic fire only one bullet with each trigger pull. I would suspect that would be sufficient for whatever the purpose. Most hunters, BTW, do not like having to pick multiple shots out of the meat they hunt for food. They have no need for the automatic weapons.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Julie on Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:53 pm

Such a sad, tragic, awful, horrible, terrible thing to happen.

I don't get it, I just don't get it.

Sad

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Julie - it's good to see you, I have wondered where you were, your missed if you aren't here for a day or so.

You are right, there are absolutely no words we can express that are adequate for the hate/evil that murdered these children and their teacher's. It's unfathomable.

I was just reading Adam shot his mom in the face 4 times possibly while she slept as she was in bed and had PJ's on, who does that to a parent? The he takes her car, drives to Sandy Hope and slaughters.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Julie on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:06 pm

It's insane, art, just insane!

All those innocent lives...... Sad


Me, I've been super busy. I've read here from the outside, without logging in. I found I get more done around home if I just don't log in...crazy, huh?

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:08 pm

Freckles shared:

We could give them to Eric Holder and he could give them to the Mexican drug cartel.
To shoot up our border patrol.

I am being sarcastic.

yep, fast and furious.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:19 pm

CBI Deals With Massive Influx Of Potential Gun Buyers

The day after the shooting in Connecticut a lot of people in Colorado tried to buy a gun.

The Colorado Bureau of Investigation says it received 4,154 requests for background checks from potential buyers on Saturday. That was so many the CBI couldn’t process them all and the backlog grew to nearly 18 hours. The Unit could only process 3,001 checks on Saturday.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/12/17/cbi-deals-with-massive-influx-of-potential-gun-buyers/

This doesn't surprise me, if American's think their right to buy a gun might be taken away, they rush out to buy more guns. Too, if I am not mistaken, I think you can buy guns immediately at Gun Shows, cash and carry.

A computer at the Connecticut home where Newtown, Conn., school shooter Adam Lanza lived with his mother was badly damaged, perhaps smashed with a hammer, said police who hope the machine might still yield clues to the gunman's motive.

The computer's hard drive appeared to have been badly damaged with a hammer or screw driver, law enforcement authorities told ABC News, complicating efforts to exploit it for evidence.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/newtown-shooters-computer-badly-damaged/story?id=17998071#.UM_vYG_omk0


P R E M E D I A T I O N !

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:59 pm

How do we stop the violence?

By Richard Dool
updated 7:46 PM EST, Mon December 17, 2012

•Connecticut Gov. Dan Malloy announced today that he supports stronger gun control laws
•President Obama: "These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change"




http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/12/17/how-do-we-stop-violence?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:02 pm

South Florida schools boost police presence after Newtown massacre

By Karen Yi, Sun Sentinel
7:52 p.m. EST, December 17, 2012

School districts in Palm Beach and Broward counties are increasing their police presence at schools this week in light of the Connecticut massacre Friday that left 28 dead, including 20 elementary students.

Each district will also keep grief counselors and school psychologists on hand to support students and staff. Schools were asked to fly their flags at half staff and, in Palm Beach County, teachers were reminded to keep their classroom doors locked. Broward will hold a moment of silence for victims Tuesday at 10:15 a.m.

But questions remained on whether the additional school-based officers would become a permanent addition.

Read more:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fl-school-safety-shooting-20121217,0,218609.story
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:05 pm

Fox News Execs Squashed Talk Of Gun Control After Newtown Massacre: Report

The Huffington Post | By Jack Mirkinson Posted: 12/17/2012 5:26 pm EST | Updated: 12/17/2012 8:46 pm EST

Rupert Murdoch may have become a vocal advocate of increased gun control in the wake of the massacre in Connecticut. Just don't tell that to Fox News.

The media mogul loudly called for a renewed push for tighter gun laws after the murders at Sandy Hook Elementary. Many of his papers followed suit. The New York Post's front page on Monday blared, "ENOUGH!" The Sun cried, "END THE LUNACY."

However, New York magazine's Gabriel Sherman reported on Monday that top Fox News executives explicitly barred people from discussing the topic. According to Sherman, the edict came from David Clark, the man in charge of weekend coverage, as well as Michael Clemente, the powerful vice president for news, who backed Clark's ruling that it was too soon to talk about guns. "We were expressly forbidden from discussing gun control," one source said.

Read more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/fox-news-gun-control-sandy-hook-newtown_n_2318431.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:08 pm



NYC Mayor Bloomberg speaks out on gun control

One outspoken advocate for strict gun laws, Michael Bloomberg, demanded action from the President. Scott Pelley sat down with the New York City mayor, who pointed out that many millions of Americans don't support gun control.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50137301n
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:17 pm

After Newtown, the NRA goes silent

By Chris Boyette, CNN
updated 5:54 PM EST, Mon December 17, 2012

Gun-control activists protest Monday outside NRA offices in Washington.

(CNN) -- Despite an escalating nationwide debate on gun control in the wake of Friday's mass shooting at a Connecticut elementary school, the National Rifle Association has remained conspicuously silent.

As of Monday evening the largest and most powerful gun-rights lobbying group in the U.S. had not posted anything to its website since Friday morning, when a gunman entered Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newton and killed 26 people, 20 of them children.

The NRA's Facebook page has been deactivated, and visitors are redirected to a bare-bones page where comments are disabled (although "Likes" are still allowed). Its Twitter account, which typically posts several times a day, also has been quiet. The group's last tweet, on Friday morning, was a promotional message that said, "10 Days of NRA Giveaways - Enter today for a chance to win an auto emergency tool!"

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http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/tech/social-media/nra-social-media-silence/index.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:25 pm

Joe Scarborough Flips on Gun Control After Newtown Shootings (Video)

Published: December 17, 2012 @ 7:57 am
By Alexander C. Kaufman



MSNBC host Joe Scarborough says he now favors gun control because of the Newtown, Conn. killings.

Noting that he has children the same age as many of the the victims, the former Republican congressman said he no longer holds his old, libertarian views on the Second Amendment.

"I knew that day that the ideologies of my past career were no longer relevant to the future that I want, that I demand for my children," he said on "Morning Joe" Monday. "Friday changed everything. It must change everything. We all must begin anew and demand that Washington's old way of doing business is no longer acceptable."

Read more:

http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-post/newtown-school-shootings-changed-joe-scarboroughs-gun-rights-views-69566
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by stina on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:57 pm

"Most of all, I will miss your visions of your future. You wanted to be a doctor, a soldier, a taco factory manager. It was your favorite food, and no doubt you wanted to ensure that the world kept producing tacos," she said, evoking laughter from the crowd.

She closed by saying: "Momma loves you, little man."

Too many precious babies left this world too soon...

We should never have to say goodbye to our babies under these circumstances....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/17/newtown-ct-plans-burials-_n_2314785.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl21%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D246949


Last edited by stina on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : left out source)
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:01 pm

After Newtown school shooting, more Americans back tough gun laws

By Susan Cornwell
Posted 2012/12/17 at 5:47 pm EST

WASHINGTON, Dec. 17, 2012 (Reuters) — The percentage of Americans favoring tough gun regulations rose significantly after the mass killings at a Connecticut elementary school last Friday, a Reuters/Ipsos poll said on Monday.

The poll found that 50 percent of those surveyed after the shootings agreed that "gun ownership should have strong regulations or restrictions." Among those surveyed before the killings the number was 42 percent.

The percentages of Americans favoring background checks on gun buyers and limits on the sales of automatic weapons also increased after the shootings, according the poll.

Read more:

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre8bg18w-us-usa-shooting-poll/
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:17 pm

Gun Control After Newtown

Jeffrey D. Sachs

Dec. 17, 2012

NEW YORK – The brutal murder of 20 children and seven adults in Newtown, Connecticut, shakes us to the core as individuals and requires a response as citizens. The United States seems to reel from one mass gun killing to another – roughly one a month this year alone. Easy access to guns in the US leads to horrific murder rates relative to other highly educated and wealthy societies. America needs to find a better way.

Other countries have done so. Between the mid-1970’s and the mid-1990’s, Australia had several mass shootings. After a particularly horrible massacre in 1996, a new prime minister, John Howard, declared that enough was enough. He instituted a severe crackdown on gun ownership, and forced would-be gun owners to submit to a rigorous application process, and to document why they would need a gun.

Conditions for gun ownership in Australia are now very strict, and the registration and approval process can take a year or more. Howard’s government also implemented a rigorous “buyback” policy, to enable the government to purchase guns already owned by the public.

Read more at http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/america-s-gun-culture-after-the-newtown-massacre-by-jeffrey-d--sachs#H9tDxXZPXEVGbZqs.99
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:44 pm

Petition to White House on Gun Control Sets Record

December 17, 2012, 3:51 PM

A hearse arrives at Honan Funeral Home as the family of Jack Pinto arrives for his funeral service in Newtown, Conn., Dec. 17, 2012. The six-year-old was one of the 20 schoolchildren killed in the Dec. 14 shootings at Sandy Hook elementary in Newtown. REUTERS/Mike Segar

At some point on Friday, “David G.” posted a petition on the White House website calling for the Obama administration to produce legislation limiting access to guns. By Friday night, it had collected more than 25,000 signatures, the threshold set by the White House for producing a written response.

By Monday, it had more than 152,000 signatures, making it the most popular petition out of about 105,000 posted since the program began in September 2011. In just three days, it surpassed the previous record holder, a petition created in February asking the administration to pressure Vietnam on human rights issues.

The gun-control petition reads in part, “The goal of this petition is to force the Obama administration to produce legislation that limits access to guns. While a national dialogue is critical, laws are the only means in which we can reduce the number of people murdered in gun related deaths.”

Rea more:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/12/17/petition-to-white-house-on-gun-control-sets-record/
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:59 am

My comments re this story are in blue.

Alessandra_Deux wrote:After Newtown school shooting, more Americans back tough gun laws

By Susan Cornwell
Posted 2012/12/17 at 5:47 pm EST

WASHINGTON, Dec. 17, 2012 (Reuters) — The percentage of Americans favoring tough gun regulations rose significantly ??? vague wording after the mass killings at a Connecticut elementary school last Friday, a Reuters/Ipsos poll said on Monday.

The poll found that 50 percent of those surveyed after the shootings agreed that "gun ownership should have strong regulations or restrictions." Among those surveyed before the killings the number was 42 percent.
---Restrictions are ALREADY in place.

The percentages of Americans favoring background checks on gun buyers and limits on the sales of automatic weapons also increased after the shootings, according the poll.
---Most gun owners ARE law abiding citizens. Those are not the ones committing these crimes.

Read more:

http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/bre8bg18w-us-usa-shooting-poll/

---This is rather odd IF so many are in favor of limiting gun ownership, etc., THEN why are gun dealers having a huge increase in sales AFTER this shooting? Can't all be just one person buying up the guns, can it? And these ARE people willing to submit to background checks.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:05 am

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by CuriousPortlander on Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:24 am

My heart is so broken.

On Tuesday, I was shocked to hear that we had a shooter at our local mall. Young kid (early 20s) walked in with an assault rifle and started firing at people around the food court. Thank God his gun jammed after he shot "only" three people (killing 2 of them, one from my community). He unjammed it in time to kill himself, once he realized that the cops were about to close in. As heartbreaking as this is, it could have been so much worse (there were 10,000 people in the mall at the time).

Then Friday, this horrific massacre of those precious, innocent children and the 7 adults. I'm just sickened.

Then, Saturday, they had breaking news that a gunman had entered a Fred Meyer store here, and the store was on lockdown. Thank God the cops arrested him before any shots were fired.

When, indeed, will it all end? I think assault rifles and large capacity magazines should be banned, and I believe background checks should be required everywhere.

With that being sad, I personally feel that violent movies and shoot-to-kill videos games need to seriously be looked at. Why that is acceptable as "entertainment" is beyond me. Seems to me this is a big cause of detachment in young people; the characters in the games aren't real. These "kids" seem to act as if they're playing a video game when they are murdering real, live people. JMO.

My heart just breaks for those 20, beautiful children that should have had the world ahead of them. May all 27 who were murdered rest in peace. My heart is so heavy, from all of these and past events mentioned above. My thoughts and prayers go out to everyone impacted by this unthinkable act. And may we find ways to prevent such tragedies from ever occurring again.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:29 am

Pearl HS shooting, Oct 1, 1997:
Pearl, Mississippi
Luke Woodham

" Details

The incident began on the morning of October 1, 1997 when Luke Woodham fatally stabbed and bludgeoned his mother, Mary Woodham, as she prepared for a morning jog. At his trial, Woodham claimed that he could not remember killing his mother.

Woodham drove his mother's car to Pearl High School. Wearing a trenchcoat, to hide his rifle when he entered the school, Woodham fatally shot Lydia Kaye Dew and Christina Menefee, his former girlfriend. Pearl High School assistant band director, Jeff Cannon, was standing five feet away from Dew when she was fatally shot. Woodham went on to wound seven others before leaving in his mother's car.[1][2]

However, assistant principal Joel Myrick had retrieved a .45 pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham inside his mother's car after he hit a tree. Then Myrick demanded "Why did you shoot my kids?" to which Woodham replied, "Life has wronged me, sir." Minutes before he started the shooting, he gave the following message to a friend[3]:
“ I am not insane, I am angry.I am a cross dresser. I killed because people like me are mistreated every day. I did this to show society, push us and we will push back. ... All throughout my life, I was ridiculed, always beaten, always hated. Can you, society, truly blame me for what I do? Yes, you will. ... It was not a cry for attention, it was not a cry for help. It was a scream in sheer agony saying that if you can't pry your eyes open, if I can't do it through pacifism, if I can't show you through the displaying of intelligence, then I will do it with a bullet."

Weapon used: Marlin Model 336 .30-30-caliber rifle, knife

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:36 am

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

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