NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Gizmo711 on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:23 am

It is an outrage for any human being to say that "the only defense against a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"....Whom are the ones that decide the good guys from the bad guys? The NRA wants guns in EVERYONES hands, that is where the problem comes. Take all the guns away and put stricter laws in for any illgegal guns. Make an automatic sentence to anyone caught with an illigal gun.

Fights used to be with fists flying, now it's with bullits flying. IF that shooter of 26 innocent children and educator's mother didn't have access to a rapid shooter those children would still be alive today (at lease most of them would have). Those guns were gotten LEGALLY.

A bad guy with a gun probably would never have been on the lookout to kill children. People can lose it at any time and go berserk but if they dont have these guns there would be no murders such as this last one.

The NRA should be shut down, they get rich and richer off of these crazy guys with guns that were obtained legally. The NRA wouldn't be so big if there weren't guns put in the wrong hands.

The ones who commit crimes with illigal guns far UNDER way the tragedy that occurs with legally gotten guns and put in the hands of these nut jobs.

It like we are going back to the "old west days"......talk about regression......

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:27 am

New Jersey Town Plans to Place Armed Guards in Schools

On the same day the National Rifle Association spoke publicly for the first time since last week's elementary school massacre in Connecticut, one local school district announced plans to place armed police officers in every school.

The mayor of Marlboro Township in New Jersey said Friday there would be armed security guards at the district's nine schools starting in January.

"This is not such a major change-- we're not putting in SWAT teams," said Mayor Jon Hornik.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/marlboro-new-jersey-armed-guards-schools-newtown-nra-reaction-184514471.html

Something has to be done to protect the innocent in schools. EVERYONE knows that no one on school property has any means to protect children, NOT EVEN the Security Guards, well, they can call 911.

A security guard carrying mace and a threatening voice can't protect children, at least, if there is a mentally ill person on campus carrying a gun & hell bent on carnage and intending to take his own life.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:39 am

When my kids were in public school in CA, the school was ringed with 12-18 foot fence topped with 4 strands of razor wire; there was a metal detector they had to pass through to get onto the campus --- two people at a time and don't be late for class; they had numerous school security (unarmed) and 9 armed school PD in uniforms. Think this was a "secure" campus? No. kids would bring cherry bombs to school in deodorant bottles, smuggle in knives, shanks, and other weapons.

I would not put uniformed and armed guards on a campus. They simply become a new target and clearly defined. Easy to disable. I would train every teacher and let them carry either openly or concealed. Israel does this every day. Then again, Israel has a different priority on her children than we have on ours. Even their schools are equipped for emergency shelters for long term.


Last edited by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:41 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : My clarity is yuck! Tried cleaning this up a bit.)
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by snowbird on Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:53 am

I haven't been able to comment about Newtown children because I have been so heartbroken. However, I don't think arming teachers is the answer to this problem. If they arm teachers then it will only take on time for a teacher to flip out and shot a student or class. There has been incidents with children and the only one that I can think of now is when a teacher would tie a child to a desk because she couldn't control the child. I know there has been more I just can't think of it right now. I would not as a parent fell safe with sending my child to school with a armed teacher.
What would happen if a student was able to overcome a teacher and get his or her gun and shot the class. I just don't see how this would be a good idea.

Merry Christmas to all or Happy Holidays
God bless the families that lost their children.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:27 am

Do you know why the little bird sings in the midst of a cold winter?
It is because he knows of Spring.

#26Acts of Kindness: Pay it forward!
I had heard of this on the radio so referenced it on the internet. Here are some links.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/12/20/167713372/newtown-shootings-inspire-26-acts-of-kindness-campaign

http://www.wafb.com/story/20407290/2012/12/21/auburn-man-starts-26-acts-of-kindness-phenomenon

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57560308/ann-curry-proposes-26acts-of-kindness-goes-viral/

It never fails to maze me what sets us Americans apart.
We are a loving, caring people. Even in the midst of great despair, we are ready and willing and find such joy in helping to share our love with others.

Everyone have a blessed holiday season celebrating and sharing your joys with others. Stay warm wherever you are and let your warmth be shared with others.



Edited to add these ideas:
http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2012/12/21/26-acts-kindness-sandy-hook-megan-miller

https://www.facebook.com/26acts
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:04 pm

snowbird wrote:I haven't been able to comment about Newtown children because I have been so heartbroken. However, I don't think arming teachers is the answer to this problem. If they arm teachers then it will only take on time for a teacher to flip out and shot a student or class. There has been incidents with children and the only one that I can think of now is when a teacher would tie a child to a desk because she couldn't control the child. I know there has been more I just can't think of it right now. I would not as a parent fell safe with sending my child to school with a armed teacher.
What would happen if a student was able to overcome a teacher and get his or her gun and shot the class. I just don't see how this would be a good idea.

Merry Christmas to all or Happy Holidays
God bless the families that lost their children.

snowbird - I have never read anywhere that even suggested teachers have guns, it has been suggested "security guards" be allowed to have a gun kept in the school safe. Packing mace renders the "security guard" helpless unless he is breaking up a fight, our schools will remain venerable, evil exist as does mental illness. There are millions and millions of guns in the public domain now, they, imo, are going to remain.

Countless articles over the weekend stated how gun sales are at a record high, especially assault weapons. imo, schools are going to continue to be at risk, parent's are going to complain but how do the one's complaining think school administration can protect your child against evil? imo, as someone that has worked in the school system, countless kids are at risk just from their living environment, countless problems including the pressure for the kids to "pass the test" so they can advance, I don't see a solution because if security in school's could be easily addressed, it would have been years ago. School districts have no money, and are on tight budgets.

A security guard or the school secretary calling 911 is not going to save lives UNTIL they arrive, however long that takes.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:08 pm

Gun sales soar after Newton massacre as owners fear new regulations

AFP December 25, 2012
7:06AM

FIREARM sales in the US have sky-rocketed since the Newtown school massacre, as debate over gun control rages and enthusiasts fear certain assault weapons and high-capacity magazines could be banned.

President Barack Obama basically has put gun enthusiasts on warning, Larry Hyatt, owner of a gun shop in Charlotte, North Carolina, said, referring to efforts to outlaw some firearms in the wake of the Newtown shooting.

A semi-automatic Bushmaster AR-15 assault rifle was used in the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre in which a disturbed local young man shot dead 20 young children, six adults and his mother before taking his own life.

Read more:

http://www.news.com.au/world/gun-sales-soar-after-newton-massacre-as-owners-fear-new-regulations/story-fndir2ev-1226543190281
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:11 pm

Gun Shows Packed With Customers Eager To Buy Assault Weapons

By Daniel Politi | Posted Sunday, Dec. 23, 2012, at 6:54 AM ET

It’s a good weekend to be a seller at a gun show. Particularly for those hawking assault weapons. As the last child killed in the Dec. 14 school massacre in Newtown, Conn. was laid to rest Saturday, gun enthusiasts across the country waited in long lines and thronged gun show booths in what many openly described as a rush to buy assault weapons out of fear that they could soon be outlawed.

Read more:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/12/23/assault_weapons_sales_at_gun_shows_soar_after_newtown_school_massacre.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:30 pm

Va. bill would order schools to arm teachers

By Laura Vozzella, December 19, 2012

Del. Robert G. Marshall is proposing a bill that would require some teachers or other school staff to carry concealed weapons in schools.

Marshall (R-Prince William) requested that the bill be drafted in response to the mass shooting last week at a Connecticut elementary school.

Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) said this week that there should be a discussion about whether school staff should be allowed to carry concealed weapons to protect children against intruders.

Read more:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-19/local/35908557_1_gun-free-zones-school-boards-school-property
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:38 pm

Guns In Schools: Missouri Teachers Weigh In Following Newtown Shooting

The Huffington Post | By Alexander Eichler Posted: 12/21/2012 2:32 pm EST | Updated: 12/21/2012 4:23 pm EST

VIDEO: Lawmaker Wants Guns For Teachers

Just as the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., renewed calls for stricter gun laws, it has also spurred a wave of advocates from the other side, many of whom say that guns are not the problem but a potential solution. State legislators around the country have endorsed the idea of allowing or even requiring school employees to carry firearms as a way to prevent future mass murders. Several lawmakers have said they plan to introduce bills to that effect.

We asked HuffPost readers in some of the states where this idea has received political support -- among them Minnesota, Missouri, Oregon, Oklahoma and South Dakota -- how they feel about it. We heard from an impressive number of current and former teachers, administrators and other school employees. Many of them voiced alarm at the idea of putting guns in faculty hands, but more than a few had words of encouragement.

Read more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/guns-in-schools_n_2341192.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:02 pm

Alessandra -thanks for those links, it does appear in fact some are proposing guns for teachers as snowbird mentioned, imo, teacher's are consumed with responsibility and there are countless distractions within a classroom a teacher is faced with daily, the school administration might be better at handling the security, if anyone has a gun in a school setting.


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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Tamta on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:09 pm

art tart wrote:
snowbird wrote:I haven't been able to comment about Newtown children because I have been so heartbroken. However, I don't think arming teachers is the answer to this problem. If they arm teachers then it will only take on time for a teacher to flip out and shot a student or class. There has been incidents with children and the only one that I can think of now is when a teacher would tie a child to a desk because she couldn't control the child. I know there has been more I just can't think of it right now. I would not as a parent fell safe with sending my child to school with a armed teacher.
What would happen if a student was able to overcome a teacher and get his or her gun and shot the class. I just don't see how this would be a good idea.

Merry Christmas to all or Happy Holidays
God bless the families that lost their children.

snowbird - I have never read anywhere that even suggested teachers have guns, it has been suggested "security guards" be allowed to have a gun kept in the school safe. Packing mace renders the "security guard" helpless unless he is breaking up a fight, our schools will remain venerable, evil exist as does mental illness. There are millions and millions of guns in the public domain now, they, imo, are going to remain.

Countless articles over the weekend stated how gun sales are at a record high, especially assault weapons. imo, schools are going to continue to be at risk, parent's are going to complain but how do the one's complaining think school administration can protect your child against evil? imo, as someone that has worked in the school system, countless kids are at risk just from their living environment, countless problems including the pressure for the kids to "pass the test" so they can advance, I don't see a solution because if security in school's could be easily addressed, it would have been years ago. School districts have no money, and are on tight budgets.

A security guard or the school secretary calling 911 is not going to save lives UNTIL they arrive, however long that takes.


Art Tart,

It is theoretically possible already in at least Indiana.

In Israel, it is very common for schools in certain areas to be guarded by the IDF and for children on class outings to be escorted by armed IDF soldiers.




While legislators in other states are wrestling with the idea of allowing teachers to carry guns in school, those in Indiana already can.

A state law that makes schools gun-free zones exempts anyone who has been employed or authorized by a school "to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school."



School safety consultant Chuck Hibbert , a former Indiana state trooper, said he discussed the law with state Department of Education officials earlier this year, before a gunman went on a shooting spree Dec. 14 and killed 26 people in Newtown, Conn. They concluded schools could designate teachers or other employees as security officers and allow them to be armed.


Tomes and other gun-rights advocates emphasized that they don't think teachers should be required to carry guns, merely that they should be given the option. And, they said, anyone who carries a gun in school should be extensively trained.



http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/sbt-indiana-law-lets-teachers-carry-guns-in-schools-20121224,0,1934511.story
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Tamta on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:14 pm



HARROLD, Texas (AP) — In this tiny Texas town, children and their parents don't give much thought to safety at the community's lone school — mostly because some of the teachers are carrying concealed weapons.

In remote Harrold, the nearest sheriff's office is 30 minutes away, and people tend to know — and trust — one another. So the school board voted to let teachers bring guns to school.

"We don't have money for a security guard, but this is a better solution," Superintendent David Thweatt said. "A shooter could take out a guard or officer with a visible, holstered weapon, but our teachers have master's degrees, are older and have had extensive training. And their guns are hidden. We can protect our children."[More..]


Texas law bans guns in schools unless the school has given written authorization. Arizona and six other states have similar laws with exceptions for people who have licenses to carry concealed weapons.

Harrold's school board voted unanimously in 2007 to allow employees to carry weapons. After obtaining a state concealed-weapons permit, each employee who wants to carry a weapon must be approved by the board based on his or her personality and reaction to a crisis, Thweatt said.

Employees also must undergo training in crisis intervention and hostage situations. And they must use bullets that minimize the risk of ricochet, similar to those carried by air marshals on planes.

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-town-allows-teachers-carry-concealed-guns-081017416.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Tamta on Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:24 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Va. bill would order schools to arm teachers

By Laura Vozzella, December 19, 2012

Del. Robert G. Marshall is proposing a bill that would require some teachers or other school staff to carry concealed weapons in schools.

Marshall (R-Prince William) requested that the bill be drafted in response to the mass shooting last week at a Connecticut elementary school.

Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) said this week that there should be a discussion about whether school staff should be allowed to carry concealed weapons to protect children against intruders.

Read more:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-19/local/35908557_1_gun-free-zones-school-boards-school-property



Del. Robert G. Marshall is proposing a bill that would require some teachers or other school staff to carry concealed weapons in schools.



Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) said this week that there should be a discussion about whether school staff should be allowed to carry concealed weapons to protect children against intruders.

Marshall’s proposal goes beyond the governor’s comments, which were made in the course of a radio interview Tuesday. [More..]


Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling (R) said through a staff member Wednesday that he does not favor requiring school employees to be armed.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:35 am

Israelis React to NRA’s Claim That Armed Guards Keep Israeli Schools Safe

By Jason Margolis ⋅ December 24, 2012



The National Rifle Association’s Wayne LaPierre continued his efforts to oppose gun regulations and to install armed security guards in US schools. LaPierre spoke Sunday on NBC’s Meet the Press and trumpeted what he said was Israel’s model for dealing with school violence.

LaPierre claimed that Israel had “a whole lot of school shootings,” until they did what the NRA is advocating.

Some Israelis have called the comment ludicrous.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said there was no “series” of attacks at schools, and that security has been beefed up over the years to deal with terrorism, not senseless shootings.

The World’s Lisa Mullins spoke with Gerald Steinberg, a professor of political science and international relations at Bar Ilan University near Tel Aviv.

Steinberg said there were periods where every Israeli school did have a security guard. But he said the situations at schools in Israel and the US are not comparable.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/12/israelis-react-to-nras-claim-that-armed-guards-keep-israeli-schools-safe/
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:45 am

Israel rejects NRA's guns-in-schools claim

JERUSALEM | Israel's policy on issuing guns is restrictive, and armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen, experts said Monday, rejecting claims by America's top gun lobby that Israel serves as proof for its philosophy that the U.S. needs more weapons, not fewer.

Far from the image of a heavily armed population where ordinary people have their own arsenals to repel attackers, Israel allows its people to acquire firearms only if they can prove their professions or places of residence put them in danger. The country relies on its security services, not armed citizens, to prevent terror attacks.

Though military service in Israel is compulsory, routine familiarity with weapons does not carry over into civilian life. Israel has far fewer private weapons per capita than the U.S., and while there have been gangster shootouts on the streets from time to time, gun rampages outside the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unheard of.

~Snipped~

"Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said, `We're going to stop it,' and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then," LaPierre said on the NBC News show "Meet the Press."

Israel never had "a whole lot of school shootings." Authorities could only recall two in the past four decades.

Read more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57560761/israel-rejects-nras-guns-in-schools-claim/
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:46 am

Suggest: Hire veteran US Marines. They are the only branch of the military that has a right to refuse orders which are violations of our US Constitution. They answer to a higher power: God. They are each trained as sharp shooters, now hostage negotiations, and love children and value life. (Unlike the other military branches, each Marine is trained in every aspect of the job so if one falls, another may continue the mission even if it is not his primary duty.)

Hire the Marine to be in charge of training school officials and leave him in place to direct others.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:05 am

Ron Paul no fan of NRA gun plan


"Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets," he continued. "We cannot reverse decades of moral and intellectual decline by snapping our fingers and passing laws."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57560727-10391739/ron-paul-no-fan-of-nra-gun-plan/
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:21 am

Filling in the gaps:
According to this LA times reports, the mother was receiving over 24,000 a month in alimony/child support; father did pay separately for medical insurance on the two boys; father had bought Adam a car, Adam was on medication for at least 10 years, etc..

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-shooter-profile-20121218,0,7751800.story
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:34 am

Israelis shoot down NRA's claim that the Jewish State uses more weapons to keep schools safe

In recent years, restrictions on gun ownership in Israel have been tightened, not relaxed

By Matthew Kalman / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Sunday, December 23, 2012, 8:03 PM.


~Snipped~

But Yigal Palmor, spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, said the situation in Israel was “fundamentally different” from that in the United States.

~Snipped~

“There is no comparison between maniacs with psychological problems opening fire at random to kill innocent people and trained terrorists trying to murder Israeli children,” said Reuven Berko, a retired Israeli Army colonel and senior police officer.

In recent years, restrictions on gun ownership in Israel have been tightened, not relaxed.

“Israeli citizens are not allowed to carry guns unless they are serving in the army or working in security-related jobs that require them to use a weapon,” said Berko.

~Snipped~

Despite having a standing army of more than 100,000 and police and security guards carrying guns on the street, Israel has strict firearms licensing and supervision.

Licenses must be renewed regularly and cannot be issued to people with a history of mental problems or a criminal background.

Read more:

http://www.nydailynews.com/israelis-shoot-nra-claim-article-1.1226401
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:01 am

Unwavering NRA opposes any new gun restrictions

by KEVIN FREKING
Associated Press
Posted on December 23, 2012 at 11:00 AM
Updated yesterday at 8:32 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — An unwavering National Rifle Association said Sunday that new gun regulations would not make children safer and that a White House task force on gun violence may try to undermine the Second Amendment.

The organization blasted "a media machine" that it said relishes blaming the gun industry for each new attack like the one that occurred just over a week ago at a Connecticut elementary school.

~Snipped~

LaPierre's assertion that guns and police officers in all schools are what will stop the next killer drew widespread scorn, and even some NRA supporters in Congress are publicly disagreeing with the proposal. Rep. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., called it "the most revolting, tone deaf statement I've ever seen." A headline from The New York Post summarized LaPierre's initial presentation before reporters with the headline: "Gun Nut! NRA loon in bizarre rant over Newtown."

Read more:

http://www.wfaa.com/news/national/NRA-Public-wants-armed-guards-in-every-school-184611161.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Gizmo711 on Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:43 am

We cannot be compared to Isrial in any form at all. We are a civilized (supposed to be anywaycountry, which is why everyone has tried and succeeded to make the USA their home.

School busses are bombed in Isrial.

Armed police officers in the schools are is not the answer, it would be like air marshals (high paid nothings), whom are not placed on every airplain, in fact they may "may" be on one in 1000 planes.

The only solution is to BAN all those rapid shooters from the public, there is NOT one reason for anyone to own one, not one reason that someone should have a gun that shoots 100 rounds in 30 seconds. You cannot even use them at the gun range for practice (it's not permitted) so why sell them?

What is this country coming to when they are selling "bullit proof" back packs, wants armed police in all our schools? THis is Amirica, not Isrial, not the middle east, lets not turn it into that.

Get rid of those guns....

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by justanopinion on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:47 am

Merry Christmas to everyone and I will save my comments to another day. May you all be blessed on this day. My prayers are with Newtown on this difficult day may they rise above the horror and find Love and peace.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:55 am

For all the little angels and their bigger sister angels who are in heaven for their first Christmas:


They know of peace now and maybe, someday, we on earth will "discover" our own peace.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:30 pm


FILE - In this Wednesday, Dec. 19, 2012 file photo, Christmas stockings with the names of shooting victims hang from railing near a makeshift memorial near the town Christmas tree in the Sandy Hook.

This picture makes me feel extremely sad... Sad
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:12 pm


How many guns are in the public domain?
Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

There is no way to know.

Long guns aren't registered.

There is no requirement to register any used fire arms you buy or are given.

The best you could do, is find stats dealing with known legal first buyer guns sales.

According to the Police Foundation:

There are 192 million working firearms in private possession.

128 million long guns and 64 million hand guns.
Source(s):
http://www.policefoundation.org/pdf/Guns…

This article was done 6 years ago
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070627132933AAzgnHc


The reality is imo, there are millions and millions more in the public domain, some registered and SOME NOT registered.

I read this weekend, one gun saler at a gun show sold 25 AK-47's alone, tripling the price that was originally $500.00 to $ 1,900.00. That is just one saler, reports from all over the US lines formed outside for those wishing to purchase a gun when they entered the gun show. The reports are the same for the sales at gun shows and gun stores.

The reality from my observation imo:

Obama may make it harder to purchase a gun, but there are so many in the public domain, the damage has been done for years and years. We may go over the "physical cliff" and while the dead from Sandy Hook were buried, Obama vacationed in Hawaii.

Nothing can be done unless it passes the House and Senate.

Schools without any form of gun power will remain helpless and the death poll will rise as in the case of another Adam Lanzer, until Adam took his life, the murders would have gone on.

Does anyone realistically think they can expect their child's school to keep their child safe when there is absolutely nothing on the school grounds to protect them with except mace?

Sandy Hook was absolutely defenseless as is every school across 50 states, making it harder for some to buy guns is not going to prevent ANYONE in the public domain that already owns a gun legally or illegally from using them if they are suffering from mental illness and have impaired thinking. jmo.


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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by justanopinion on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:03 pm

gun laws will not change things... sadly..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/25/rochester-firefighters-ambush-condition.html


Police chief Gerald Pickering said Tuesday that 62-year-old William Spengler, who served 17 years in prison for the 1980 hammer slaying of his grandmother, was armed himself with a revolver, a shotgun and a semiautomatic rifle before he set his house afire to lure first responders into a death trap before dawn on Christmas Eve.

Sadly, there are many individuals like this who are just evil.. his first murder was with a hammer.. should we outlaw those as well?? He was a ex-con and would not have been able to obtain those legally... JMHO JMHO
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:27 pm

It takes way to long for police to respond.
Seconds are so important and they are minutes away.
Even school security, on campus, may be minutes away.
Time is precious.
(Think of the GZ/Trayvon Martin case.Whole thing went down in minutes. From when the physical confrontation happened, it was seconds.)

We will always have the lawless among us.
Trying to lessen the impact means we have to be able to identify the problem and respond.
The principal identified the problem and responded.
Security drills and means WERE in place.
Her response, the best she could do, was not sufficient enough to protect some others and that included staff and vulnerable children. However, due to the quick identification of the problem and the safety drills, law enforcement WAS in place: It just took too many minutes when those seconds were so valuable.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:30 pm

Biden tasked

"Vice-President Joe Biden has been assigned to lead the response to the Sandy Hook massacre, and Mr Obama has demanded a set of "concrete proposals" within a month.

Speaker of the House John Boehner has said the Republican-controlled chamber would consider new proposals.

Mr Obama has said he would support reinstating an assault weapons ban that lapsed in 2004.

The White House has also suggested the president would back other gun control measures on high-capacity ammunition clips and closing loopholes that allow people to buy guns without background checks."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20815130
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:48 pm

All guns are "assault weapons" so this is meaningless rhetoric. All states perform background checks.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Adam broke the law.
A check WAS run on him the day before the shooting.
He was denied buying a gun.
IMO, because he was denied, he used someone else guns--- his mother's.
He could have just as easily broken into to another residence and stolen guns, made a weapon such as a pipe bomb, used household chemicals to create poisons (he excelled in science, IIRC) , used another tool such as gasoline, fertilizer, machete, hammer, box cutters, or even a car. The list is endless. (I recall a few years back some students putting drugs into beverages of teachers.)
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:51 pm

Off topic and not on the evening news:

Sent my son to the local Wal Mart to buy three last minute items. The store was closing early yesterday afternoon so he was there early in the morning. Standing in line to buy the 3 items, the store is evacuated. Bomb scare. Note was found in the restroom. Store shut down for hours. (He simply left and came home. Skip the items. Get them after the holidays. Maybe on sale?)
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:26 pm

Freckles wrote:All guns are "assault weapons" so this is meaningless rhetoric. All states perform background checks.
Correct me if I am wrong.


Adam broke the law.
A check WAS run on him the day before the shooting.
He was denied buying a gun.
IMO, because he was denied, he used someone else guns--- his mother's.
He could have just as easily broken into to another residence and stolen guns, made a weapon such as a pipe bomb, used household chemicals to create poisons (he excelled in science, IIRC) , used another tool such as gasoline, fertilizer, machete, hammer, box cutters, or even a car. The list is endless. (I recall a few years back some students putting drugs into beverages of teachers.)

Freckles - I agree with your thoughts, USUALLY, not always, guns used in the manner of Sandy Hook are stolen by criminals just as Adam stole Nancy's.

I too agree that there are many opportunities for evil to attack the innocent using a multitude of means. I don't know what the solution is, but I do know the answer to protecting schools are bigger than a longer background check. Congress/Senate may want to try to ban the sale of assalt weapons at gun shows, pawn shops, etc., but this could take months & months to drag thru the goverment arguments to finally reach Obama to sign into law. MONTHS wil be afforded to those wishing to purchase assault weapons just as we have seen since the Sandy Hook murders flooding gun shows that take place every weekend.

Since tragedies usually don't occur by mentally stable people, why more discussion isn't taking place over mental illness, violent video games. imo, there isn't one solution to Sandy Hook or the Batman theater murders in Colorado, the problem is more complex. Tipper Gore tried to address mental illness during the Clinton administration and was met mostly by jokes on Saturday Night Live instead of focusing on the millions of American's suffering from mental illness diagonosed and undiagnosed.

What is OBAMBACARE willing to do for the mentally ill that can't be forced to take their meds?

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:35 pm



Colin Goddard, VA Tech victim on why we need better federal gun laws

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloophole

__________

Campaign to Close the Gun Show Loophole

Currently, a gun show loophole allows unlicensed sellers to sell guns without conducting a background check. There are approximately 5,000 gun shows every year across the United States and 40% of sales at these shows are by unlicensed sellers who are not required to perform background checks. The ATF says that gunshows are the second leading source of crime guns. Although 17 states have taken action to partially or completely close this loophole, 33 states have not! It is time for ALL states to close it.

http://www.campaigntoclosethegunshowloophole.org/Artist.asp?ArtistID=22163&Akey=LMCFL7Y3

Gun Show Truths:

http://webfarm.foliolink.com/Artists/22163/GunShowTruths1.pdf
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:20 pm

Art Tart said:" Since tragedies usually don't occur by mentally stable people, why more discussion isn't taking place over mental illness, violent video games. imo, there isn't one solution to Sandy Hook or the Batman theater murders in Colorado, the problem is more complex. Tipper Gore tried to address mental illness during the Clinton administration and was met mostly by jokes on Saturday Night Live instead of focusing on the millions of American's suffering from mental illness diagonosed and undiagnosed.

What is OBAMBACARE willing to do for the mentally ill that can't be forced to take their meds? "
Excellent commentary, art tart.

Yes, Tipper Gore DID attempt to address this issue.
(In fact, I get a mini-education from reading pamphlets I requested re this issue after reading of her involvement. I was surprised at how many "unstable" people there are in a society.)

Ronald Reagan closed many, many institutions for those seeking mental help on an in-patient basis. These people were literally turned on the streets to become homeless, victims of others, struggling for a meal and shelter. Kelly Thomas, killed in SoCal, was mentally ill. His father, retired police officer, and his mother tried to help their son. He ended up killed by overly aggressive PD officers. Case is still open in SoCal, IIRC.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:31 pm

Freckles wrote:All guns are "assault weapons" so this is meaningless rhetoric. All states perform background checks.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Adam broke the law.
A check WAS run on him the day before the shooting.
He was denied buying a gun.
IMO, because he was denied, he used someone else guns--- his mother's.
He could have just as easily broken into to another residence and stolen guns, made a weapon such as a pipe bomb, used household chemicals to create poisons (he excelled in science, IIRC) , used another tool such as gasoline, fertilizer, machete, hammer, box cutters, or even a car. The list is endless. (I recall a few years back some students putting drugs into beverages of teachers.)

They are referring to "assault weapons" like the AR-15 assault rifle that was used by James Holmes inside the Colorado theater, and the Bushmaster 223 assault rifle that was used by Adam Lanza in the Newtown elementary school massacre.

"James Holmes' weapon of choice in this heinous crime was an AR-15 assault rifle.

This weapon was equipped with a clip that carried a hundred rounds, though it jammed and all the rounds were not fired. The carnage would have undoubtedly been greater had the weapon operated as planned. The AR-15 is capable of shooting 50-60 rounds a minute in the semi-automatic mode from its 100 round clip."
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Tamta on Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:01 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:

Colin Goddard, VA Tech victim on why we need better federal gun laws

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/backgroundchecks/gunshowloophole

__________

Campaign to Close the Gun Show Loophole

Currently, a gun show loophole allows unlicensed sellers to sell guns without conducting a background check. There are approximately 5,000 gun shows every year across the United States and 40% of sales at these shows are by unlicensed sellers who are not required to perform background checks. The ATF says that gunshows are the second leading source of crime guns. Although 17 states have taken action to partially or completely close this loophole, 33 states have not! It is time for ALL states to close it.

http://www.campaigntoclosethegunshowloophole.org/Artist.asp?ArtistID=22163&Akey=LMCFL7Y3

Gun Show Truths:

http://webfarm.foliolink.com/Artists/22163/GunShowTruths1.pdf

This assertion is patently untrue and not at all proven.

This is something that was floated by Clinton and gets recycled.

According to the US DOJ reports, AT MOST only 2 % of guns used by criminals are acquired at gun shows and most of those guns used were legally acquired by people who passed background checks.

The number of non-commercial gun dealers, those exempt from
Background checks, at gun shows are very low.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by KimmyK on Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:25 am

Freckles wrote:Ron Paul no fan of NRA gun plan

"Real change can happen only when we commit ourselves to rebuilding civil society in America, meaning a society based on family, religion, civic and social institutions, and peaceful cooperation through markets," he continued. "We cannot reverse decades of moral and intellectual decline by snapping our fingers and passing laws."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57560727-10391739/ron-paul-no-fan-of-nra-gun-plan/

snipped from above link-
I don't agree that conservatives and libertarians should view government legislation, especially at the federal level, as the solution to violence,"

"Predictably, the political left responded to the tragedy with emotional calls for increased gun control. This is understandable, but misguided," Paul wrote.

"Government cannot create a world without risks, nor would we really wish to live in such a fictional place. Only a totalitarian society would even claim absolute safety as a worthy ideal, because it would require total state control over its citizens' lives," he continued.

"Government role is to protect liberty, not to pursue unobtainable safety," wrote Paul.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57560727-10391739/ron-paul-no-fan-of-nra-gun-plan/[/quote]

BBM
I have to agree.
IMO, a big part of this problem is due to the steady decline of the morals in America.
Years ago, even if people weren't 'religious' at least they had morals.
That, along with less mental health services available, the 'lifelike' violent games that more and more children are playing younger and younger, and it is a recipe for part of what we are dealing with today.
Passing more laws would be like putting a band-aid on a wound when it needs stitches. JMO

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by KimmyK on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:33 am

My heart breaks for these parents. Sad

They are spending the first of many Christmases without their children.
My thoughts and prayers are with them, I hope they find peace after such a horrible tragedy.


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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:04 am

KimmyK wrote:My heart breaks for these parents. Sad

They are spending the first of many Christmases without their children.
My thoughts and prayers are with them, I hope they find peace after such a horrible tragedy.



This is an excellent site to visit.
26 Acts of Kindness
https://www.facebook.com/26acts?ref=stream

Please. Take a look at the postings people have shared.
It is a fresh and wonderful approach to problems we have.
I feel good just reading the comments from others.
Inspired is a better word.
bath
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:07 am

The thing is this: There is a tomorrow. There will be problems tomorrow. How are we going to handle those troubles we encounter? What is our legacy for the next generations? What footprints have we left? Footprints. We don't have to move mountains just a grain of sand at a time.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Gizmo711 on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:58 am

Freckles wrote:The thing is this: There is a tomorrow. There will be problems tomorrow. How are we going to handle those troubles we encounter? What is our legacy for the next generations? What footprints have we left? Footprints. We don't have to move mountains just a grain of sand at a time.


Amen..........

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by justanopinion on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:46 am

I am saddened by the tragedies in the US... I am not attempting to minimize the outcomes... I do want to put things into perspective.

the population of the United States reportedly in 2012 is
315,005,000 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

The estimated total number of guns held by civilians in the United States is 270,000,0001
The rate of private gun ownership in the United States is 88.82 firearms per 100 people
In the United States, annual firearm homicides total

2009: 9,1467
2008: 9,48410 7
2007: 10,129
2006: 10,225
2005: 10,158
2004: 9,385
2003: 9,6597
2002: 9,36911
2001: 8,890
1999: 8,2596
1998: 9,257
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

from the same link...
In the United States, annual homicides by any means total

2010: 14,1595
2009: 15,241
2008: 16,272
2007: 16,929
2006: 17,030
2005: 16,740
2004: 16,148
2003: 16,528
2002: 16,229
2001: 16,037
2000: 15,586
1999: 12,6586 7
1998: 14,276
1997: 18,2088 7
1996: 19,645
1995: 21,606

comparing the numbers... for 2009 as an example...
homicides
by any means.... by a gun
15,241 9,146
that leaves 6095 murders using something other than a gun.. I find this very telling!!

my opinion only...
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Lash on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:57 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Va. bill would order schools to arm teachers

By Laura Vozzella, December 19, 2012

Del. Robert G. Marshall is proposing a bill that would require some teachers or other school staff to carry concealed weapons in schools.

Marshall (R-Prince William) requested that the bill be drafted in response to the mass shooting last week at a Connecticut elementary school.

Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R) said this week that there should be a discussion about whether school staff should be allowed to carry concealed weapons to protect children against intruders.

Read more:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-19/local/35908557_1_gun-free-zones-school-boards-school-property


Snip - “I would be very supportive of the idea that properly trained teachers could carry concealed firearms,” said Sen. Richard H. Black (R-Loudoun). “There's no way you’d have 20 innocent children gunned down if you had teachers who could help to defend themselves.”

Philip Van Cleave, who heads the Virginia Citizens Defense League, said he would like to see the state eliminate the gun-free zones surrounding schools. As an interim step, he would support arming teachers and other staff.

“We’d prefer to just see that [gun-free zone] go away, not just [for] teachers but even parents or whoever,” he said. “They’re carrying everywhere else. Why do we not trust them on school grounds? Gun-free zones don’t work, and telling people with permits they can’t carry on school property — the people you don’t want carrying on school property don’t have permits.”
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Lash on Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:16 pm

I have to ask, would these same celebrities demand change when it comes to displaying or the usage of a gun in their music videos and/or movies? In my opinion, I doubt it. OR would any of them be willing to give up their own private security guards, I doubt it.


Celebrities & Gun Control: Big Names Demand Change After Sandy Hook Shooting

12/19/2012 5:59 pm | Updated: 12/19/2012 5:59 pm

In light of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn., celebrities and prominent figures are speaking up to push for gun control and demand change.

As soon as the news of the tragedy broke last week, celebrities took to Twitter to voice their opinions and stars such as Jamie Foxx and Bruce Jenner spoke out against the violence in interviews.

Now, they are taking things a step further. A full-page ad taken out in Dec. 19's New York Times shows signatures from more than 100 public figures, including Arianna Huffington, Lady Gaga, Martha Stewart, MC Hammer, Goldie Hawn, and Ken Burns.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/celebrities-gun-control-sandy-hook-shooting_n_2332739.html


Last edited by Lash on Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added thought-)
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Lash on Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:37 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Israel rejects NRA's guns-in-schools claim

JERUSALEM | Israel's policy on issuing guns is restrictive, and armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen, experts said Monday, rejecting claims by America's top gun lobby that Israel serves as proof for its philosophy that the U.S. needs more weapons, not fewer.

Far from the image of a heavily armed population where ordinary people have their own arsenals to repel attackers, Israel allows its people to acquire firearms only if they can prove their professions or places of residence put them in danger. The country relies on its security services, not armed citizens, to prevent terror attacks.

Though military service in Israel is compulsory, routine familiarity with weapons does not carry over into civilian life. Israel has far fewer private weapons per capita than the U.S., and while there have been gangster shootouts on the streets from time to time, gun rampages outside the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unheard of.

~Snipped~

"Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said, `We're going to stop it,' and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then," LaPierre said on the NBC News show "Meet the Press."

Israel never had "a whole lot of school shootings." Authorities could only recall two in the past four decades.

Read more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57560761/israel-rejects-nras-guns-in-schools-claim/

ONLY - really? Do these shootings at Newtown and Aurora not meet the definition of terrorism? Maybe not terrorism against US foreign policy or the country as a whole...but the victims in these mass shootings were and are forever terrorized. No one should minimize the terror these victims experienced in these mass killings.

---

Snip - Israel never had "a whole lot of school shootings." Authorities could only recall two in the past four decades.

In 1974, 22 children and three adults were killed in a Palestinian attack on an elementary school in Maalot, near the border with Lebanon. The attackers' goal was to take the children hostage and trade them for imprisoned militants.

In 2008, another Palestinian assailant killed eight young people, most of them teens, at a nighttime study session at a Jewish religious seminary in Jerusalem. An off-duty soldier who happened to be in the area killed the attacker with his personal firearm.
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Freckles on Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:10 pm

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Guest on Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:01 pm

Predicting who's at risk for violence isn't easy!


It happened after Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora, Colo., and now Sandy Hook: People figure there surely were signs of impending violence. But experts say predicting who will be the next mass shooter is virtually impossible - partly because as commonplace as these calamities seem, they are relatively rare crimes.

Still, a combination of risk factors in troubled kids or adults including drug use and easy access to guns can increase the likelihood of violence, experts say.

But warning signs "only become crystal clear in the aftermath, said James Alan Fox, a Northeastern University criminology professor who has studied and written about mass killings.

"They're yellow flags. They only become red flags once the blood is spilled," he said.

According to a research review published this year in Annals of General Psychiatry, most people with Asperger's who commit violent crimes have serious, often undiagnosed mental problems. That includes bipolar disorder, depression and personality disorders. It's not publicly known if Lanza had any of these, which in severe cases can include delusions and other psychotic symptoms.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MED_SCHOOL_SHOOTING_PREDICTING_VIOLENCE?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HEALTH&TEMPLATE=

imo, Adam may have been suffering from several other undiagnosed mental problems as his mother confided to a friend "she was losing Adam." Usually individuals with "asperger's syndrome" and are OCD are not violent though their behavior can be aggressive in certain situations, more common in males than females. imo, Adam had many problems.

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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:26 pm

The forgotten victims of gun violence

By Bassam Gergi and Ali Breland, Special to CNN
updated 12:59 PM EST, Wed December 26, 2012



Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, center, and other area officials call for stronger gun regulations at a news conference last week

Editor's note: Bassam Gergi is studying for a master's degree in comparative government at St. Antony's College, Oxford, where he is also a Dahrendorf Scholar. Ali Breland studies philosophy at the University of Texas at Austin.

(CNN) -- On the Sunday after the Newtown massacre, President Barack Obama traveled to Connecticut to comfort the grieving community. As the president offered what he could to the town, other American communities, in less visible ways, were grappling with their own menace of violence.

Read more:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/26/opinion/breland-gergi-gun-victims/index.html
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:54 pm



Success at annual "gun buyback"

Because of the shooting in Newtown, Conn., L.A. Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa moved up the annual "gun buyback" usually held in May. People waited in line up to 3 hours to turn in their guns. John Blackstone reports.

Californians honor Newtown victims by selling their guns

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50137813n
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Re: NEWTOWN CONN. SCHOOL SHOOTING

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