George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Fri May 31, 2013 3:36 pm

Mari-
While FL has the "sunshine" laws, in this particular case I would like to see a gag order slapped on the media BUT keep the cameras in the court. Something needs to be done to keep this from blowing up. No matter what, there are groups who will believe the verdict will entitled them to civil disobedience and destruction of property. So tired of the primitive and uncivilized behavior. It helps no one when a city burns.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Fri May 31, 2013 4:08 pm

Freckles wrote:Allears---
You seem to have singled out just my postings. That is very interesting.
This must mean you agree with ALL the other posters and just find my comments offensive, right?

You remind me of another poster...

You said specific things that I took exception to, so I responded to them. As for the part BBM: Odd how you came to that conclusion though.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Pianist on Fri May 31, 2013 4:55 pm

Freckles wrote:
allears wrote:
Well, GZ's story paints himself as the victim, and that plays an integral role in his self-defense argument.


In part, it helps to add credibility to GZ's story that TM attacked him. Perhaps GZ's continued observations of TM, while TM was already in an agitated mood, served to push TM over the edge, and that contributed to his (alleged) decision of attacking GZ.


I don't think anybody is insinuating that it has anything to do with WHY GZ shot TM; it's only purpose it to lend consistency to GZ's story.


He has not confessed to murder, he has confessed to the shooting/killing. He claims it was done in self-defense, which is not equivalent to "murder".

Allears---
You seem to have singled out just my postings. That is very interesting.
This must mean you agree with ALL the other posters and just find my comments offensive, right?

You remind me of another poster...

Freckles, I for one, appreciate your comments. So many times I have stated how much you add to discussions. I may not agree at times but I listen carefully because I know that you think things through. I believe the discussions will be emotional many times throughout this case and we all have to be ready for that. In one of my posts above I asked the folks here at RC to be patient with me because I truly am neutral at this point and really trying to delve in on the facts not the emotion which is very hard to do.

I was watching HLN last evening and had to turn it off because of the unsubstantiated bias I felt was going on. I liked the lawyers and judge's comments but not the pundits' comments. IMO it is too soon to judge; the media is hyping people up; they don't have facts yet.

You know from my past posts I want justice and I want our justice system to work. Right now I know that TM is dead at the hands of GZ. I hope that you don't stop posting because you add so much to me through your posts

One last thing... It is really difficult to stay neutral right now but I keep trying.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by carlakay on Fri May 31, 2013 5:49 pm

well I aint neutral..a young man who was doing no more than talking to his girl on his phone while walking home got shot dead by an armed man who had been told seconds earlier by a police dispatcher NOT TO FOLLOW.
This grown man has now been charged with murder by the state of Florida and so I feel those who aint buying the self defense or stand your ground claims have real good reason to call this young mans cause of death murder.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Pianist on Fri May 31, 2013 5:55 pm

carlakay wrote:well I aint neutral..a young man who was doing no more than talking to his girl on his phone while walking home got shot dead by an armed man who had been told seconds earlier by a police dispatcher NOT TO FOLLOW.
This grown man has now been charged with murder by the state of Florida and so I feel those who aint buying the self defense or stand your ground claims have real good reason to call this young mans cause of death murder.

This is one of the reasons RC is a wonderful site. Opinions can be posted without retribution. I respect your opinion and in time I will decide after I hear and read more. I am glad that there are people on both sides here. It adds to my thinking process.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Mari 68 on Fri May 31, 2013 6:57 pm

Freckles wrote:Mari-
While FL has the "sunshine" laws, in this particular case I would like to see a gag order slapped on the media BUT keep the cameras in the court. Something needs to be done to keep this from blowing up. No matter what, there are groups who will believe the verdict will entitled them to civil disobedience and destruction of property. So tired of the primitive and uncivilized behavior. It helps no one when a city burns.

I think there may be riots with just a hung jury. This case scares me.

I see no stand your ground here. I see no 1st degree murder - I barely accept the charge of M2 but I did read the law in Florida and do completely see why that is the proper charge (based upon the prosecution's theory)

I won't say I know everything in this case, I don't even know half - but since we all get to post what we think here I'm gonna do it.

I think, thus far, GZ should do some prison time. I think it was MORE than involuntary manslaughter - and maybe just barely shy of M2.

I'm only concerned about what happens after the verdict. If riots start, it won't just be in Florida.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Mari 68 on Fri May 31, 2013 7:03 pm

allears wrote:
sitemama wrote:Alessandra wrote:
He said it was him screaming, and others thought it was Trayvon. He must know it wasn't him, or why else would he want the judge to bar the voice recognition experts from testifying. He knew it wasn't him screaming when he told the LE that it was him.
"Others" (Mary Cutcher?) thought it was TM after they learned he was a "boy". Nobody there knew TM, or knew what his voice sounded like, and could therefore match the screams they heard to a familiarity with TM's voice.

I imagine they don't have faith in the voice recognition expert's "science". It would be a crap shoot at best. In fact, I believe that's exactly what they're challenging, the "science" of the testing methods, at the June 6th(?) hearing.

Has there even been a voice sample of Trayvon's offered for comparison yet? I don't recall hearing about anything yet (though I imagine there would have to be something).


I can't imagine anyone has a recording of Trayvon screaming they've saved on their voice mails - but we DO have George's voice.

So the voice recognition experts SHOULD be able to testify. We've been using voice recognition science for many, many years now. I'm shocked anyone has been able to lend credence to the defense attempting to call it junk science. Bizarro?

This is gonna be one helluva trial!
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Pianist on Fri May 31, 2013 7:27 pm

Mari 68 wrote:
allears wrote:
"Others" (Mary Cutcher?) thought it was TM after they learned he was a "boy". Nobody there knew TM, or knew what his voice sounded like, and could therefore match the screams they heard to a familiarity with TM's voice.

I imagine they don't have faith in the voice recognition expert's "science". It would be a crap shoot at best. In fact, I believe that's exactly what they're challenging, the "science" of the testing methods, at the June 6th(?) hearing.

Has there even been a voice sample of Trayvon's offered for comparison yet? I don't recall hearing about anything yet (though I imagine there would have to be something).


I can't imagine anyone has a recording of Trayvon screaming they've saved on their voice mails - but we DO have George's voice.

So the voice recognition experts SHOULD be able to testify. We've been using voice recognition science for many, many years now. I'm shocked anyone has been able to lend credence to the defense attempting to call it junk science. Bizarro?

This is gonna be one helluva trial!

IIRC voice experts for the prosecution refused to "testify" because of the length of the voice print. They said it was not long enough for them to get an accurate call. Then they tried other experts who said they might be able but were not sure then the defense filed the motion to not allow it. I would love to know whose voice it is. I believe the science is good but if the length of time the person is screaming is not long enough then what can the experts do? Another fly in the ointment. I think this will become a battle the experts.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Fri May 31, 2013 11:15 pm

Mari-
Reginald Denny. I recall the times during the 1980s when CA was a tinderbox with anxieties. Crips. Bloods. La Familia. Seemed every city had sprung a crop of "bad asses" out to prove something. Anything. Looking for a reason for violence. It broke back thots of Kent state. Detroit. Watts.Compton. All across America, so it seemed, every school and every community was on edge.

I am not believing the emotions here can be safely "boxed" up. Maybe, they are volatile because they HAVE been boxed--- not resolved. I am apprehensive. I do wish those with "interests" hoping to capitalize on the situation for their own causes would simply stay home and promote non-violence. I do not like to see Lady Justice held hostage. Not by anyone.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Fri May 31, 2013 11:17 pm

Screaming voice:
Seems to me too much is being placed on this one piece of evidence. What would we do without it? What if it did not exist? Maybe, that is what we should do and then carry on.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:36 pm

Freckles wrote:Screaming voice:
Seems to me too much is being placed on this one piece of evidence. What would we do without it? What if it did not exist? Maybe, that is what we should do and then carry on.

As O'Mara has said (though I'll paraphrase), this is one of THE most important pieces of evidence of everything that is available. If it could somehow be determined, or concluded by the jury anyway, that the wails/screams are from Zimmerman, that would go a LONG way to supporting his version of the story. On the flip side, if they are convinced it's Trayvon screaming, then that would certainly give them serious doubt to Zimmerman's claims (I would think, anyway).

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:49 pm

carlakay wrote:well I aint neutral..a young man who was doing no more than talking to his girl on his phone while walking home got shot dead by an armed man who had been told seconds earlier by a police dispatcher NOT TO FOLLOW.
"Seconds" earlier? Well, I suppose each of those four (five?) plus minutes that passed are comprised of 60 seconds each, but that's hardly an accurate way to describe what happened. And what's with the skipping of the fact that the "armed man" suffered a broken nose, two lacerations to the back of his head, and multiple abrasions and other minor injuries elsewhere on his face and head, before using his weapon? And what about the fact that the "young man" that was shot suffered zero injuries (other than an abrasion near one of his knuckles) while this "armed man" received his?

Was Zimmerman likely mistaken with his suspicions that Trayvon was a previous burglar returning to scope the place out? Yes, he probably was. Did that mistake give Trayvon the right to inflict the injuries he apparently did upon Zimmerman? The laws of the state of Florida would certainly say not.

carlakay wrote:This grown man has now been charged with murder by the state of Florida and so I feel those who aint buying the self defense or stand your ground claims have real good reason to call this young mans cause of death murder.
Not everyone that is charged is convicted, nor are they guilty. The "State of Florida", if the Sanford PD qualifies as that as well, also found that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with even manslaughter, that is until emotions were stirred by people that do that best which incited the uninformed or mislead public to protest for an arrest that likely should have never happened.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:54 pm

Supporters pray for justice for the parents of Trayvon Martin

Posted on Saturday, 06.01.13
By Audra D.S. Burch


Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, parents of slain teenager Trayvon Martin, are shown before the start of the Community Program of Peace, Justice and Prayer on Saturday, June 1, 2013 at Bethel Apostolic Temple. Gregory Castillo / Miami Herald Staff

Hundreds of supporters — mothers, fathers, sons and daughters — gathered at a Miami-Dade church Saturday to prayerfully send off the parents of slain teenager Trayvon Martin as they travel about 250 miles to Central Florida for the trial of the man accused of killing their son on a rainy night last February.

~Snipped~

“I say to you, I stand here as a mother, that my heart is hurting, but I know…that God will work this out,’’ said Fulton, tears welling in her eyes. “I know that the prayers are coming, I know that you are with us.”

Read more:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/01/3428551/supporters-pray-for-justice-for.html
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:57 pm

Trayvon Martin family braced for 'rough road' as trial nears

By Tina Susman
June 1, 2013, 5:17 p.m.


MIAMI -- The father of Trayvon Martin, the teenager shot dead by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in a case that sparked nationwide protests over racial profiling and police inaction, said Saturday the family is bracing for a "rough road" as Zimmerman's trial nears.

"We're going to have to sit through all the negativity," Tracy Martin said at an emotional prayer service in a Miami church nine days before Zimmerman's trial opens in Sanford, Florida. Martin was referring to defense attorney Mark O'Mara's attempts to cast his son as an aggressor whose actions on the night of Feb. 26, 2012, prompted Zimmerman to fire in self-defense.

Read more:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-20130601,0,5059063.story
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:37 am

IMO, it speaks to the integrity of Trayvon's family for them to come together at this time to show support for Trayvon.

I hope the "hanger-ons" (or those who seek to use this case to promote a personal or political agenda,) will just fade away and leave this to a court of law. The family, the community, our nation just does NOT need the added tension; it will be a huge turn-off if this case is wrongly used in the media.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Summertime on Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:37 am

Well, this has nothing to do with the case at all, but I have pretty much decided to not follow this case....except thru reading what you all post. Tis pretty easy to do from this end....because we have no tv up here. Am grateful that there will be no HLN, no screeching Nancy....none of that 24/7 howling drivel. If I just watch the court proceedings....on the ipad.....it might be ok......but I was sooooo glued to the pute over that horrid jerk Casey, and the outcome was so awful. It was like the summer that never was.....

Guess what I am asking is for Freckles and Aless to post the diff places I will be able to get the Zimmerman live stream....and then I will still have time to argue with myself....
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Tricia's True Crime Radio Show tonight: 8 pm EDT/ 7 pm CDT

Post by Ann - Tx on Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:46 am


Tricia's True Crime Radio Show tonight: Sunday, 6/2/13


IT'S TRICIA'S TRUE CRIME RADIO'S 2ND ANNIVERSARY.

WE HAD OUR FIRST BLOG TALK RADIO SHOW ON JUNE 5 2011.

SUNDAY JUNE 2ND 8 PM EASTERN SHERYL MCCOLLUM FROM THE COLD CASE INVESTIGATIVE RESEARCH INSTITUTE WILL JOIN US TO TALK ABOUT THE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL. LATER ELAINE REDWINE WILL TALK TO US ABOUT THE LATEST IN HER MISSING SON DYLAN'S CASE AND WHAT, IF ANYTHING,IS GOING ON WITH HER EX HUSBAND MARK

KIMSTER HAS THE WEBSLEUTHS HOT COLD CASE AND SO MUCH MORE

Sunday, 6/2/13, at 8 pm EDT/ 7 pm CDT

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/06/03/tricias-true-crime-radio-sunday-night-8-pm-eastern
Blog Talk Radio - Tricia's True Crime Radio Show - - 6/2/13
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Summertime on Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:24 am

Thanks Anne, I will listen to that tonight....that was so nice of you to post that for me.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm

Mari 68 wrote:I can't imagine anyone has a recording of Trayvon screaming they've saved on their voice mails - but we DO have George's voice.

So the voice recognition experts SHOULD be able to testify. We've been using voice recognition science for many, many years now. I'm shocked anyone has been able to lend credence to the defense attempting to call it junk science. Bizarro?

This is gonna be one helluva trial!
They're not calling "voice recognition" in general junk science, they're calling into question the ability to compare a calm, foreground speaking voice, to a hysterical, screaming voice in the background of a call. I imagine they're also challenging the specific methodology used by an individual expert that the State was able to find, that Reich guy. Actually, there were at least two different state experts (one being that Reich guy) that didn't come remotely close to the same conclusions.

Also, the FBI's own audio expert(s) concluded this:

Critical listening and digital signal analyses further revealed that the screaming voice of the 911 call is of insufficient voice quality and duration to conduct a meaningful voice comparison with any other voice samples primarily due to the screaming voice being: (1) produced under an extreme emotional state, (2) limited in the number of words and phrases uttered, (3) superimposed by other voices most of the time, and (4) distant, reverberant and very low signal level.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Moosiesmama on Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:50 pm

I am definitely not following this, it's too polarizing, I'm probably in the minority here, who sees this all as one tragic stupid macho Fest that went terribly awry because one of the idiots involved was legally carrying a gun.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:46 am

George Zimmerman Trial Update: Attorney for media groups reportedly says they won't photograph jury

June 2, 2013 6:40 PM
By Erin Donaghue


(CBS) -- A pre-trial hearing ahead of the George Zimmerman murder trial has been canceled after a lawyer for media groups said the outlets would not photograph the jury.

Circuit Judge Debra Nelson set the hearing for Friday to weigh whether or not the media groups would be able to photograph jurors outside of court. On Tuesday, the lawyer, Scott Ponce, reportedly indicated the media groups would push to photograph jurors, which Nelson said she would disallow.

However, on Thursday, Ponce reportedly filed paperwork saying that the media groups he represented would abide by a ban. His clients include the New York Times, CBS News, NBC Universal, and the Miami Herald.

Read more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57587258-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-update-attorney-for-media-groups-reportedly-says-they-wont-photograph-jury/
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:21 am

George Zimmerman's attorneys apologize for mischaracterizing evidence

By Daniel Arkin, Staff Writer, NBC News


Attorneys for George Zimmerman apologized Sunday for mischaracterizing evidence they said boosted their theory that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor in his fatal meeting with their client last year.

Lawyer Mark O’Mara said during a hearing last Tuesday that the defense had obtained video footage of three fights, including one in which he said two of Martin’s friends "were beating up a homeless guy."

But Zimmerman's defense team corrected that statement on Sunday, saying O'Mara had unintentionally "misstated the nature" of the footage.

In a statement posted on Zimmerman’s website, the defense lawyers said the footage actually showed "two homeless guys fighting each other over a bike."


Read more:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/02/18702011-george-zimmermans-attorneys-apologize-for-mischaracterizing-evidence?lite
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:05 am

George Zimmerman attorney Mark O'Mara apologizes for incorrect info

George Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara addresses the court during a pre-trial hearing on Tuesday, May 28, 2013.

Last Updated: Sunday, June 02, 2013, 4:36 PM

SANFORD -- George Zimmerman's lawyer apologized in a statement released Sunday about something he said about Trayvon Martin.

It happened during a hearing Tuesday, May 28, as Mark O'Mara sought to get some evidence used at trial that included a cell phone video.

“Presumably; however, you’ll keep your mind open when we present the videos of him at these fights, not just as a spectator, but refereeing one and taping one where two buddies of his were beating up a homeless guy,” O’Mara said to Judge Debra Nelson.

Read more:

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/2/george_zimmerman_att.html
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:07 am

IF it is believed the screaming voice was that of GZ, why would MOM want that excluded from being introduced into court?
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:12 am

Scroll down for list of names in this case:

http://www.baynews9.com/zimmermantrial.html
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:51 am

Freckles wrote:IF it is believed the screaming voice was that of GZ, why would MOM want that excluded from being introduced into court?
"Believed" by whom? "Believing" who is screaming isn't the same as voice recognition "experts" declaring with certainty, based on "science", who can be proven to be screaming. I'm just pointing out a distinction between the two. I think MOM has reached the conclusion (based on the conflicting conclusions from all the "experts") that it's not possible, at least with current technology, to come to such a conclusion when limited to the voice samples available.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Freckles on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:06 am

allears,
Please. I am NOT interested in being attacked by you or any other poster. Please stop. RC is NOT the place to attack posters for their differing beliefs or opinions. If you really feel the need to do that, please take it to PM.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:32 am

Freckles wrote:allears,
Please. I am NOT interested in being attacked by you or any other poster. Please stop. RC is NOT the place to attack posters for their differing beliefs or opinions. If you really feel the need to do that, please take it to PM.
I don't understand how you feel that anything about what I said was an attack. You proposed a question, and you didn't really specify who it was addressed to, but as I was one of the posters that had been discussing the "screaming" topic, I felt it would be appropriate for me to comment on your post.

Had I directed a personal insult your way, or something along those lines, then I could understand your accusation (that I "attacked" you). I may not post in an overtly "friendly" manner, but I do not seek to insult or otherwise "attack" people regardless of their opinions.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by justanopinion on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:44 am

http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/06/03/trayvon-martin-crime-scene-evidence-photos-george-zimmerman?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

I am wondering how the pic of GZ in graduation gown has any significance in this case?

Doctors, Lawyers all manner of professional person has at sometime been guilty of Murder... GZ graduating has no bearing.. at least in my mind.. MOO
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:11 pm

allears wrote:
Freckles wrote:IF it is believed the screaming voice was that of GZ, why would MOM want that excluded from being introduced into court?
"Believed" by whom? "Believing" who is screaming isn't the same as voice recognition "experts" declaring with certainty, based on "science", who can be proven to be screaming. I'm just pointing out a distinction between the two. I think MOM has reached the conclusion (based on the conflicting conclusions from all the "experts") that it's not possible, at least with current technology, to come to such a conclusion when limited to the voice samples available.

"Believed" by Zimmerman's lawyer, who has repeatedly stated in open court hearings that there is evidence his client was the one who was screaming, "believed" by his father and by his brother, who also have said that it was Zimmerman, and by a myriad of Zimmerman supporters on the world wide web.

It doesn't really matter what people believe, what is important in this case is what can be proved at the trial.

There are hundreds of witnesses, thousand of pages of witnesses depositions, forensic evidence, audio recordings from interrogations, photographs of the scene of crime and of the victim and the defendant.

I don't believe who was screaming in the 911 call is a major issue at the core of the case, in my opinion, it is one small piece of a puzzle in the big scheme of things.

Both the defense and the prosecution will be afforded the opportunity to present their case at the trial, both sides will introduce evidence to prove or disprove each side's contentions in this case, in the end, it will be up to the jurors to decide whether or not Zimmerman acted in self defense.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by carlakay on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:12 pm

allears wrote:
carlakay wrote:well I aint neutral..a young man who was doing no more than talking to his girl on his phone while walking home got shot dead by an armed man who had been told seconds earlier by a police dispatcher NOT TO FOLLOW.
"Seconds" earlier? Well, I suppose each of those four (five?) plus minutes that passed are comprised of 60 seconds each, but that's hardly an accurate way to describe what happened. And what's with the skipping of the fact that the "armed man" suffered a broken nose, two lacerations to the back of his head, and multiple abrasions and other minor injuries elsewhere on his face and head, before using his weapon? And what about the fact that the "young man" that was shot suffered zero injuries (other than an abrasion near one of his knuckles) while this "armed man" received his?

Was Zimmerman likely mistaken with his suspicions that Trayvon was a previous burglar returning to scope the place out? Yes, he probably was. Did that mistake give Trayvon the right to inflict the injuries he apparently did upon Zimmerman? The laws of the state of Florida would certainly say not.

carlakay wrote:This grown man has now been charged with murder by the state of Florida and so I feel those who aint buying the self defense or stand your ground claims have real good reason to call this young mans cause of death murder.
Not everyone that is charged is convicted, nor are they guilty. The "State of Florida", if the Sanford PD qualifies as that as well, also found that there wasn't enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with even manslaughter, that is until emotions were stirred by people that do that best which incited the uninformed or mislead public to protest for an arrest that likely should have never happened.

seriously? (that's what I gotta say about what I put in bold)

As for what ya had to say about GZ injuries..again NONE of those injuries would have occurred had he turned around..walked back to his truck and waited for law enforcement to arrive. GZ vehicle had no LE markings..GZ was not wearing any sort of uniform that night..he had no badge..why is it so beyond the relm to think for just one second that a young man who had just turned 17 may of felt like he was in some sort of danger as he walked back to his dad's friends house? Is it completely illogical to believe the possibilty that Trayvon may of went into fight mode when his flight mode had failed to lose the man following him?
I stated from the get go I do not believe GZ left his home or followed TM with the intent to kill him,but the fact of the matter is he did kill an unarmed teenager.I just can't see how this could ever be self defense.
As an owner of a weapon I feel I should only use it when necessary..shooting TM was only necessary due to GZ own actions.I really don't care what kind of person TM was..he was a 17 yr old kid with a can of ice tea and a bag of skittles who's life was taken just for walking through a neighborhood he did not live in. I taught my kids to fight for their life if an unknown person confronts them same as GZ did TM..I also told em to do so even if there is a weapon involved because better to be shot dead on the spot than taken to a 2nd location..ALOT of people teach their kids this.
As to the screaming..it is my opinion BOTH of them may of been screaming at some point.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by carlakay on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:24 pm

Moosiesmama wrote:I am definitely not following this, it's too polarizing, I'm probably in the minority here, who sees this all as one tragic stupid macho Fest that went terribly awry because one of the idiots involved was legally carrying a gun.

your not in the minority..I feel pretty much the same way.I am very much for the right to bear arms but it is cases like this and foolish people like GZ that cause so many to be against it.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by carlakay on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:28 pm

Freckles wrote:IMO, it speaks to the integrity of Trayvon's family for them to come together at this time to show support for Trayvon.

I hope the "hanger-ons" (or those who seek to use this case to promote a personal or political agenda,) will just fade away and leave this to a court of law. The family, the community, our nation just does NOT need the added tension; it will be a huge turn-off if this case is wrongly used in the media.

YES! I totally agree.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:56 pm

Trayvon Martin is not on trial, family says

Last Updated: Monday, June 03, 2013, 10:55 AM

SANFORD -- The attorney representing the family of Trayvon Martin released a statement Monday regarding an apology that attorney Mark O'Mara made Sunday.

O'Mara, who represents George Zimmerman, apoligized for a statement he made during a May 28 hearing as he sought to get some evidence used at trial that included a cell phone video.

Martin Family Attorney Ben Crump released the following statement of "mischaracterization" of the 17-year-old by Zimmerman's defense team:

"George Zimmerman's defense team's so called apology yesterday for manipulating and mischaracterizing information about Trayvon Martin would be laughable in any other context, if this case wasn't about the murder of an unarmed teenager. Let's not forget the defense team has spent weeks now engaged in a despicable campaign to assassinate the character of a dead teenager in an attempt to influence a potential jury pool. Thankfully, the judge in this case has sided with the laws of evidence in saying that such information is irrelevant to the case, reminding us all that Trayvon is not on trial, but George Zimmerman is for second degree murder."

Read more:

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/3/martin_family_trayvo.html
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Pianist on Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:09 pm

Alessandra_Deux wrote:Trayvon Martin is not on trial, family says

Last Updated: Monday, June 03, 2013, 10:55 AM

SANFORD -- The attorney representing the family of Trayvon Martin released a statement Monday regarding an apology that attorney Mark O'Mara made Sunday.

O'Mara, who represents George Zimmerman, apoligized for a statement he made during a May 28 hearing as he sought to get some evidence used at trial that included a cell phone video.

Martin Family Attorney Ben Crump released the following statement of "mischaracterization" of the 17-year-old by Zimmerman's defense team:

"George Zimmerman's defense team's so called apology yesterday for manipulating and mischaracterizing information about Trayvon Martin would be laughable in any other context, if this case wasn't about the murder of an unarmed teenager. Let's not forget the defense team has spent weeks now engaged in a despicable campaign to assassinate the character of a dead teenager in an attempt to influence a potential jury pool. Thankfully, the judge in this case has sided with the laws of evidence in saying that such information is irrelevant to the case, reminding us all that Trayvon is not on trial, but George Zimmerman is for second degree murder."

Read more:

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/3/martin_family_trayvo.html

I listened very carefully to what was said by Mara but also how he spoke. He does not want this to be trial by the media at all. I give him a lot of credit for saying what he did. He is required by law as well as the prosecutors to hand over discovery. When that happens here in Florida it be ones public information and fodder for the media.

I have yet to hear the prosecutors have to explain their actions or their discovery. Such as: why did they only show a black and white picture to the press? Why did they support the edited version of the 911 call? Why were the pictures of Trayvon as a much younger Trayvon? None of these answers are important to me. I just would like people to understand that both sides do things in order to WIN. Not necessarily get to the truth. What the media says is not necessarily FACTS. Personal agendas, political reasons, and media bias have no place in a trial.

The judge has not said that none of the discovery can be used. She has said she will determine relevancy of each piece as we go through the trial. IMO it is a shame that we as a public are so swayed from words on TV or in the paper.

I am going to follow the trial and hope to see a good trial that focuses on truth and not inuendos, but the way things are going I think I will be very disappointed.
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Mari 68 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:42 pm

Pianist wrote:
Alessandra_Deux wrote:Trayvon Martin is not on trial, family says

Last Updated: Monday, June 03, 2013, 10:55 AM

SANFORD -- The attorney representing the family of Trayvon Martin released a statement Monday regarding an apology that attorney Mark O'Mara made Sunday.

O'Mara, who represents George Zimmerman, apoligized for a statement he made during a May 28 hearing as he sought to get some evidence used at trial that included a cell phone video.

Martin Family Attorney Ben Crump released the following statement of "mischaracterization" of the 17-year-old by Zimmerman's defense team:

"George Zimmerman's defense team's so called apology yesterday for manipulating and mischaracterizing information about Trayvon Martin would be laughable in any other context, if this case wasn't about the murder of an unarmed teenager. Let's not forget the defense team has spent weeks now engaged in a despicable campaign to assassinate the character of a dead teenager in an attempt to influence a potential jury pool. Thankfully, the judge in this case has sided with the laws of evidence in saying that such information is irrelevant to the case, reminding us all that Trayvon is not on trial, but George Zimmerman is for second degree murder."

Read more:

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/3/martin_family_trayvo.html

I listened very carefully to what was said by Mara but also how he spoke. He does not want this to be trial by the media at all. I give him a lot of credit for saying what he did. He is required by law as well as the prosecutors to hand over discovery. When that happens here in Florida it be ones public information and fodder for the media.

I have yet to hear the prosecutors have to explain their actions or their discovery. Such as: why did they only show a black and white picture to the press? Why did they support the edited version of the 911 call? Why were the pictures of Trayvon as a much younger Trayvon? None of these answers are important to me. I just would like people to understand that both sides do things in order to WIN. Not necessarily get to the truth. What the media says is not necessarily FACTS. Personal agendas, political reasons, and media bias have no place in a trial.

The judge has not said that none of the discovery can be used. She has said she will determine relevancy of each piece as we go through the trial. IMO it is a shame that we as a public are so swayed from words on TV or in the paper.

I am going to follow the trial and hope to see a good trial that focuses on truth and not inuendos, but the way things are going I think I will be very disappointed.

Oh yes - disappointment will be had for both sides in this case. Seems to be a nightmare and just so NOT a civil rights case AT ALL!

Its a damn murder trial!
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Pianist on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:11 pm

Mari, I agree. As this case started and was handled by the media I have had very interesting conversations. I was left with a question. IF trayvon had been white would we have the same media coverage or be in the same place? If both men were white or if both were black or both Hispanic ? I would hope so, BUT I have my doubts and that does not speak highly of our justice system.


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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by allears on Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:24 pm

Pianist wrote:Mari, I agree. As this case started and was handled by the media I have had very interesting conversations. I was left with a question. IF Trayvon had been white would we have the same media coverage or be in the same place? I would hope so, BUT I have my doubts and that does not speak highly of our justice system.
Or if GZ was black would this also be the same situation it has become?

I guess there's no way to know for sure, but it doesn't seem likely.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by sitemama on Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:40 pm

On Mother's Day, I told my daughter's other half's aunt (which I don't like) that she and I needed to go to Sanford and stay with her daughter so we could try to attend the trial. She said Absolutely not, in fact her daughter and her kids are coming to NC during the trial because the daughter doesn't want to be there. Trayvon was shot in her back yard, and she said there would be nothing but blacks protesting down there. I told her I would be right out there with them, because no matter what color he was, he did not deserve being shot.

But, Aunt Judy won't let me go stay at Teresa's, so I guess I will watch it from home.

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:35 am

Hello All.

Being a frequent lurker here, with the trial approaching and not seeing quite an important news of the day posted, i decided to register.


Appeal court: Zimmerman defense can depose Trayvon Martin family attorney

Zimmerman defense can depose Ben Crump, appellate court says

By Rene Stutzman, 4:25 p.m. EDT, June 3, 2013

Zimmerman’s attorneys had twice asked trial judge Debra S. Nelson to order Crump to sit down for a deposition, and twice she said no.

So defense attorneys went over her head, filing a writ with the Fifth District Court of Appeal in Daytona Beach.

It returned a unanimous five-page ruling this afternoon in Zimmerman’s favor.

Nelson was wrong, the court wrote, when she said Crump is protected by a work product privilege. He conducted a March 19, 2012, interview of the woman and made an audio recording while in the same room with two employees of ABC News.

The network broadcast portions of it shortly thereafter.

The appeals court said because that news crew was present during the recording, Crump had waived his work product privilege.

It also ruled that Crump deserves no protection, despite his claim of being opposing counsel, because he’s not. In this case he’d have to be a prosecutor to qualify.

Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-george-zimmerman-trial-crump-deposition,0,1131663.story

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Re: ---------- article in above post ----------

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:41 am

Opinion From The Fifth District Court of Appeal Regarding Petition For Certiorari

on 03 June 2013.

The following document has been issued by the Fifth District Court of Appeal:

Opinion From The Fifth District Court of Appeal Regarding Petition For Certiorari - http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0613/dca5_opinion.pdf

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:53 am

June 3, 2013 7:51 AM

George Zimmerman Trial: Experts say self-defense claim could be tough to refute in Trayvon Martin killing

By Erin Donaghue

(CBS) -- Among the strongest evidence in George Zimmerman's defense may be George Zimmerman himself, several experts say - in part, because it may prove difficult for prosecutors to refute his claim that he killed Trayvon Martin in self-defense.
"There's only two people who know exactly what happened, and one of them is no longer alive," said Florida criminal defense attorney Brian Tannebaum, president of the Florida Association of Bar Defense Lawyers and past president of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. "It's a hard burden when Zimmerman is going to say, 'Listen, I was in fear, I got into a fight with this kid, I didn't know him, I didn't know what he was going to do.' What is out there to dispute what he's saying? That's the difficult part."

Jose Baez, lead defense attorney for Casey Anthony, who was acquitted of murder, said he doesn't believe the prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman's story isn't true.

"The state is going to have a hard time refuting the claim of self defense- that's where the case can easily be won by the defense," Baez said. "The state not only has to put forward their evidence, they have to exclude every reasonable hypothesis of innocence and do so beyond a reasonable doubt - I don't think they can."

The defense will likely point to evidence including the photos of Zimmerman bleeding from the head following the altercation to corroborate his story, Tannebaum said. Though it's not clear whether the 29-year-old will take the stand in his defense, experts say they believe it's likely.

"Unless the state makes the argument that [Zimmerman's injuries] were self-inflicted, they clearly occurred through some kind of altercation," Tannebaum said. "If Zimmerman is going to testify and say Trayvon Martin assaulted me and I was in fear for my life, that would be a big piece of evidence."
Read more:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57587259-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-experts-say-self-defense-claim-could-be-tough-to-refute-in-trayvon-martin-killing/

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:46 am

Hi OptioMac!

I'm glad you decided to join us at RC, I hope you enjoy the site.






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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:00 am

This is a very emotionally charged case on so many levels.. race, age, gun control, weight and many others..

Myself and another person were scolded for making comments about GZ and some of the changes that have occurred. GZ has undergone some very serious appearance changes since this all has been public. Stress can do strange things to people... they can loose weight or gain weight. I wonder how much of the changes we have seen... hair vs. brush cut or how GZ originally appeared in Police photos and his current look is deliberate to influence the jury when the time comes...
The picture of GZ in a cap and gown I mentioned up thread really bothers me... in my opinion it has no place in this trial!!
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by justanopinion on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:05 am

sorry, but I also wanted to comment on the Videos on the cell phone... many teens now video altercations on their phones ... neighbour boys used to show me fights and video's stuff all the time.. I have always told them don't put anything into writing or on video that you don't want the world to see ... because it can come back and bite you... but ... in a world of youtube and all the stupid things posted there it is tough to convince teen boys not to video some things... JMOO
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by Alessandra_Deux on Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:29 am

The Fifth District Court granted Zimmerman's lawyer the Writ of Certiorari to avoid a later appeal on the issue.

Page 2:

"We conclude that Zimmerman was entitled to take a limited deposition of Crump to inquire as to the substance of Crump's interview of Witness 8 and the circumstances surrounding the interview. We grant the writ because we would be unable to ascertain the degree of harm resulting from the wrongful denial of this discovery in a plenary appeal." (more...)

Crump can be deposed but the scope of the deposition will be limited.

Page 5:

"In concluding that the trial court erred in denying Zimmerman an opportunity to depose Crump, we caution that any deposition of Crump is to be limited to inquiry of circumatances surrounding the interview of Witness 8 and the contents of such interview." (more...)

~Snipped~

"The deposition contemplated by our opinion should be relatively short and straight forward. We are confident that the trial judge will be able to take the steps necessary to ensure the deposition is limited to the subject areas described above."

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0613/dca5_opinion.pdf
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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:33 pm

Thanks for the welcome! :)


June 4th Defense Fund Update

on 04 June 2013.

Donations from the GZDefenseFund.com website have exceeded $46,000 since we announced the fund was out of money on May 29. Individual donations have ranged from $5.00 to $2,000.00. Many contributors have left comments with their donations.


A $10.00 donation from Dallas, Texas:
“Everyone deserves a fair trial.”

A $40.00 donation from Bell View, FL:
“I hope this little money helps. I don’t know if you are right or wrong, but you do deserve a fair trial. I can only hope if I were thrown to the wolves someone would come help me out.”

A $10.00 donation from New Orleans, LA
“As a law student, I believe in the right to a fair trial as fundamental to our justice system. I would love to do anything I can to help ensure Mr. Zimmerman receives the fair trial he deserves.”

A $10.00 donation from The Villages, FL
“I am concerned that a jury may be afraid to find you innocent.”

A $10.00 donation from North Hills, CA
“Sorry for jumping to conclusions earlier on without waiting to hear your side of the story. I hope you get a fair trial. God bless.”

A $10.00 donation from Kansas City, MO
“Please use this money to help even the playing field.”
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/index.php/updates-2/23-june-4th-defense-fund-update

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:04 pm

New evidence: Zimmerman applied to become a cop but was rejected

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

5:49 p.m. EDT, June 4, 2013

SANFORD — Prosecutors have filed paperwork revealing that murder defendant George Zimmerman applied to become a police officer in a county near Washington, D.C. but was turned down.

His application and rejection letter are among the latest pieces of evidence the state has notified defense attorneys they may use at Zimmerman's trial, which begins Monday.
The new list of evidence, filed Monday, says Zimmerman applied to become an officer in Prince William County, Md., but that appears to be an error. There is no Prince William County in Maryland, however, there is one in Virginia, and it's the site of Zimmerman's hometown: Manassas.

The paperwork does not spell out when Zimmerman applied for the job, but it is not the first indication that he had an interest in police work.

He was a student at Seminole State College, about to complete a two-year degree in criminal justice, at the time of the shooting.

He also took part in a citizens' academy, a program sponsored by the Seminole County Sheriff's Office that allows people to become more familiar with police work.

On his 2008 application to join that program, he wrote, "I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope to one day become one."
Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-cop-application-20130604,0,7772961.story

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:05 pm

In a separate pleading, defense attorney Mark O'Mara has asked the judge to ban prosecutors from using several specific terms, ones he describes as "inflammatory".

They include "profiled", "vigilante", "self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain", "wannabe cop" and the phrases "He got out of the car after the police told him not to", and "He confronted Trayvon Martin".

In his paperwork, filed Monday, O'Mara writes that there is no evidence Zimmerman confronted Trayvon and that it's a oft-repeated "misstatement" that a police dispatcher told Zimmerman not to get out of his vehicle.

Wrote O'Mara, "There is little probative value by the use if these terms and the danger of unfair prejudice to the jury is substantial."
Read more:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-cop-application-20130604,0,7772961.story

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

Post by OptioMac on Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:09 pm

George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin, Social Media & Race - Don Miller Show June 3, 2013

Published on Jun 4, 2013 by TrayvonGeorge @ YouTube

http://www.thedonmillershow.com/

Video:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkhoHT90_cM

(1:32:00)

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Re: George Zimmerman -- Trial for the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin --June 10, 2013

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